Chelsea Manning Faces Possible Charges For Suicide Attempt
Source: HP
Manning, 28, received a military letter on Thursday notifying her that she’s under investigation for three alleged offenses that could put her in solitary confinement indefinitely. An Army employee told Manning that the investigation stemmed from the former intelligence analyst’s July 5 suicide attempt in the Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, barracks, her attorneys said in a statement.
...
Manning remains in an observation unit at the barracks, Strangio said.
Military police are investigating her for allegedly possessing prohibited property, “conduct which threatens,” and “resisting” staff that entered her cell, according to the charge sheet that Manning dictated to a supporter over the phone.
...
The military could also punish Manning by increasing her sentence by nine years and denying her parole eligibility, the ACLU said in a statement.
Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chelsea-manning-faces-possible-charges-for-suicide-attempt_us_579a7c94e4b0e2e15eb52a11
9 more years....
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)
merrily
(45,251 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)
tblue37
(65,340 posts)think
(11,641 posts)
Democat
(11,617 posts)It's not a specific attack on this person.
merrily
(45,251 posts)been prosecuted for a suicide attempt while already in prison serving a sentence of 35 years? You'd think things like that would make headlines.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)
merrily
(45,251 posts)a bunch of other words I can think of. Especially the speed with which they charged her.
"You thought you wanted to kill yourself a few days ago? Here's a few more reasons." 
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)
It makes no sense. If this is the military protocol regarding suicide seriously it's time they change it.
The practice is as helpful and humane as waterboarding - which we all know is unproductive and wrong.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)The charges stem from the resisting and contraband and not the suicide attempt itself.
The suicide attempt brought the initial scrutiny though.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)In the last couple of years the Military has tried to do better with criminality of suicide.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/03/31/ucmj-change-suicide-crime/82470708/
tblue37
(65,340 posts)imprisonment, and at one time, hanging was sometimes the punishment called for if a person survived a suicide attempt:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=I2FJRbekdC8C&pg=PA24&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
cstanleytech
(26,286 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I hate working with PDF, but here is the blurb off a google search I just did
prosecutorial power and the legitimacy of the military justice system
harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/.../prosecutorial_power.pdf
Harvard Law Review
Because of these great powers, a prosecutor has a duty beyond that of an ordinary ... Prosecutorial discretion is similarly broad in the military justice system ...
And I will tell you what I'd bet my life on without even googling: no military prosecutor is under a duty to hit someone who in already in prison serving 35 years with new charge in under a month from the suicide attempt.
Anyone seeing any of this as SOP...I don't get it.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)unfortunately
merrily
(45,251 posts)
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)It's our job to fire them when they don't.
procon
(15,805 posts)If her mental health is so impaired that she is making suicide attempts, were are the patient advocates and the medical and psychiatric support teams that are supposed to serve the needs of the service members? Even prisoners have rights to humane treatment, don't they?
Response to procon (Reply #5)
merrily This message was self-deleted by its author.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)Not a hospital. Manning is already having the rules bent for her. No other prisoner has as much access to the outside as she.
No other prisoner is being paid to opine about stuff they have no idea about.
All other prisoners are subject to the same rules.
This is also just a notification of an investigation, and has no statement of adjudication.
She is receiving the same amount of care and treatment as all others. Should we waste thousands upon thousands of dollars on one convicted felon because she is your, special snowflake, cause celebre. Every dollar wasted on this prisoner, (and any other) is taking away from the care and protection of all other troops.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)I know and fully understand military life, well beyond most posters on this site, and definitely well beyond PFC Manning.
It seems she still does not understand her actions have consequences, but she has lots of enablers to help keep her shaded from the truth. Again they want special treatment for their special snowflake, (yes this has a distinct meaning in the military), without regard to the impact it has on the greater force. Again, every dollar wasted on a prisoner is a dollar less used on serving Troops.
IE: Woman in combat roles, there is a lack of form fitting body armor for Woman. Should we forego developing a larger inventory so we can bring in more specialist for PFC Manning?
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)Here to put your mind at ease, because I can see you are a very empathetic person.
As does the Sun, the Moon shines Equally on us all.
we fund our military very well
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)There are not infinite resources. Mandated Troop reductions come with funding reductions.
Senior Brass is more in love with their prized big toys than Troops. When the rubber meets the road, Troops will get the short end of the stick. Even Senior Enlisted stated to Congress that pay and benefits by ordinary Troops could be on the chopping block, without one mention of Senior Officers pay and benefits. Which were boosted by special Congressional Mandate at the height of the Wars.
Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)
USS Zumwalt *Cough* F-35 *clears throat*
merrily
(45,251 posts)Among many other things, "the same amount of treatment as everyone else" is not how the need for psychiatric treatment is determined.
procon
(15,805 posts)Its clear that she is NOT "receiving the same amount of care and treatment as all others", because the other prisoners obviously aren't all trying to kill themselves.
This isn't the horror show of Abu Ghraib, some Soviet era gulag, or a Hollywood version of a third world prison, in this country we still afford prisoners rights and protections under our has Constitutional laws. That's the very concept that our soldiers fight for. Iit's not limited to just the privileged few that people like you deem worthy of just and equitable care, it's for everyone. We don't allow an option for retaliation against those we disagree with.
Yet here you are, arguing from such such an immoral, illogical and unAmerican position, that we'd have a class system that divides us and gives props to sickos who say its OK to torment and abuse those people who are not in a position to protect themselves or even get medical care without the assistance of others, because they are found wanting. That dystopian view is nothing that is even remotely American.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)When joining the Military you give up certain Constitutional Rights.
My point about her having access to the outside shows that she is getting preferential treatment as to her fellow inmates, and you cannot say with certainty that no other inmates are trying to commit suicide. It is just that nobody cares that they are trying, and it is not front page news. I can guarantee you that other inmates are getting in trouble for disciplinary violations, but again nobody cares and not front page news. One of the reasons that Military Prison is cleaner and safer is the very strict adherent to the rules and regulations that Civilian Prisons cannot enact, nor enforce.
She is not being denied health care, in fact she is receiving health care for all of her physical and mental needs. Even treatment for her Gender Identity Transition. Which at the point of her incarceration was not available to any other service member in the whole US Military, not to mention, HGH therapy was reason for discharge from the Armed Forces.
Never once have I said that torment, torture, or retaliation is OK. You are here arguing that PFC Manning is not being treated equally. You are correct, she is being treated above and beyond what other inmates are getting at Leavenworth.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)She is my prayers with deep compassion. None of us will ever know the depth of suffering she endures.
Help Support Chelsea:
https://www.chelseamanning.org/
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts) xocet
(3,871 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)None of that ... absolutely zero... gave Manning the right to do a massive copy paste from secure servers and blasting it to the world without even a review.
There are legitimate things that deserve to have the whistle blown on them. This wasn't that... The hope that there might be something incriminating in hundreds of thousands of documents doesn't meet anything close to an ethical standard.
This was a sub standard Soldier lashing out at the organization he had failed at and he knew, more than most, what the cost would be when caught.
See you in 2050 Chelsea...
I'm as liberal as they come but I have absolutely no compassion for traitors.
xocet
(3,871 posts)
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)I've notice that whenever someone needs to condition or preempt their comment with "im as liberal as they come" or "im as left wing as it gets" or "im not a racist, but", something ignorant is bound to follow. Your not "as liberal as they come" if you don't believe in basic liberal principles.
xocet
(3,871 posts)people should be punished for that. It is easy to pick out Manning. How about W? Do you also advocate harsh punishment for his grand screw-up?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)She joined voluntarily, during a time of war. She placed herself in that situation and took an oath.
xocet
(3,871 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Having said that, additional punishment for an attempted suicide seems excessive.
xocet
(3,871 posts)justice was turned on its head by the invasion of Iraq, by the torture of detainees, by indefinite detention and by (but not only) the other acts that occurred under W and Cheney. If one wants to claim that oaths mean anything or that justice means anything, one must pursue not only those who are simple to pursue, but also those who are more difficult to pursue - those who are also actually more culpable due to their leadership roles. This absolutely has not been done.
So, that is a bit of an elaboration of why I responded as I did. Thanks for your extended comment.
Response to TipTok (Reply #17)
Post removed
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Many thought Jackie Robinson earned his court-martial and prosecution in 1944 as well.
It's fun to pretend we have absolute knowledge of who earns what, but more often than not, that absolute knowledge is merely a guess predicated on our biases.
However, I'm certain in your case, the absolute knowledge is both just and righteous. 
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... That would mitigate all the facts we do know about Manning's crime?
What could it conceivably be?
Go nuts...
olddad56
(5,732 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)... so I can steal some too?
It doesn't work for toddlers and it sure doesn't work for adults.
It literally has nothing to do with Manning's crimes.
calguy
(5,306 posts)If you can't do the time...don't do the crime.
The prison time is minute compared to the damage this person caused our country.
Sorry if I sound "insensitive", but when someone deliberately seeks to damage my country, I feel the hammerneeds to comedown hard.
That also includes the rat formerly known as Snowden.
By Jason Leopold, Marcy Wheeler, and Ky Henderson
June 4, 2016
...
Hundreds of internal NSA documents, declassified and released to VICE News in response to our long-running Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit, reveal now for the first time that not only was the truth about the "single email" more complex and nuanced than the NSA disclosed to the public, but that Snowden had a face-to-face interaction with one of the people involved in responding to that email. The documents, made up of emails, talking points, and various records — many of them heavily redacted — contain insight into the NSA's interaction with the media, new details about Snowden's work, and an extraordinary behind-the-scenes look at the efforts by the NSA, the White House, and US Senator Dianne Feinstein to discredit Snowden.
The trove of more than 800 pages [pdf at the end of this story], along with several interviews conducted by VICE News, offer unprecedented insight into the NSA during this time of crisis within the agency. And they call into question aspects of the US government's long-running narrative about Snowden's time at the NSA.
...
https://news.vice.com/article/edward-snowden-leaks-tried-to-tell-nsa-about-surveillance-concerns-exclusive
demmiblue
(36,845 posts)Extended stays in solitary confinement constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.
I really think that they are intentionally trying to drive her mad.
Gruesome, absolutely gruesome.
calguy
(5,306 posts)Trying to create outside sympathy in an attempt to get a pardon.
When you're sitting in a prison cell looking at the next 35 years, the mind conjures up all sorts of weird escape plans.
Sorry again for my insensitivity, but remember, this person is a traitor who deliberately caused great harm to the country he pledged to serve by taking the military oath, just as I did when I entered the military.
Manning knew full well what Manning was doing and now is trying to escape the punishment for Manning's actions.
Pure and Simple.
demmiblue
(36,845 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)What is wrong with you? Take your transphobic shit elsewhere.
demmiblue
(36,845 posts)Guess not in this case. It really isn't that hard to understand:
Members are expected to respect diversity and demonstrate an appropriate level of sensitivity when discussing related topics. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or other forms of bigoted intolerance are not permitted.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)This place has changed in the last few months. = (
Turin_C3PO
(13,974 posts)your post. As it is, it reads very transphobic.
FairWinds
(1,717 posts)but this is really laughable . .
". . it's the rules for everyone in the military . ."
Sure, unless your name is Petraeus or Clapper and the title
"General" goes in front of it.
Or unless you are S. Libby or R. Armitage.
Reminder - all those mentioned above released TOP SECRET info.
Manning released CONFIDENTIAL info
BIG, BIG DIFFERENCE
Really, don't even try to give me that "rule of law" crap - it's just a sick joke.
Veterans For Peace stands with Chelsea
TipTok
(2,474 posts)The difference between Petraeus and Clinton and most of the others is that they were sloppy with their data. Negligent even.
Manning's goal was to cause harm by blasting as much as he could get his hands on.
Hope every day of that 35 years is served.
FairWinds
(1,717 posts)when they revealed to a reporter that Valerie Plame
was an undercover CIA agent right after Karl Rove
declared that Joe Wilson's family was "fair game."
Maybe if we had MORE leaks we would not get lied into
quite so many wars . .
calguy
(5,306 posts)However, I do believe if you intentionally steal information you took an oath not to, and deliberately tried to damage the US, you should face the full extent of the law.
Manning knew full well what Manning was doing.
If I was facing 35 years behind bars and my 15 minutes of fame was far behind me, I might want to kill myself too. That still would not change what I had done and would not change the penalty I had to face as a consequence of committing those crimes.
You may stand with Chelsea, I do not.
FairWinds
(1,717 posts)Libby, Armitage, Clapper, Petraeus
and that crowd our there walking the streets
who are guilty of far greater crimes - do you know anything at all about the difference between TOP SECRET and CONFIDENTIAL? (Chelsea leaked only the former, not the latter.)
you just don't get that "the law" is not for those exalted types. (sarcasm alert)
calguy
(5,306 posts)but I'm not in support of those rats either. I'm saying Manning willfully and deliberately committed crimes befitting of a traitor. You forget that Manning did this while a member of the military, wihich is governed under the UCMJ law. Quite different from civilian law. After doing the crime, Manning is now trying to avoid doing the crime. The military system isn't going to cave in to Manning's tantrums.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)That is just a fact.
Not sure what your are trying to say.
PufPuf23
(8,769 posts)war crimes, is punished so much, however imperfect a person.
Prominent and powerful people lied into war that has killed 100,000s of innocents and committed war crime and in the process have paid no penalty nor shame but increased their personal wealth and power.
This situation is accepted by the populous at large; war criminals are often venerated.
Manning is scorned.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)Manning did this with the express purpose to cause harm.
Enormous difference.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)honestly, death would be preferable, I think they are just giving her a death sentence, even if its one by a thousand cuts.
Honestly, her initial sentence was far too harsh, and I'm frankly appalled at the nationalist scum who support such things.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)It was his job...
No sympathy...
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)... And that's the time period I am talking about
