Doctor: George Zimmerman had black eyes, painful broken nose but no head trauma

[neohippie]

Source: Miami Herald

The day after he killed Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman went to the doctor with a broken nose, black eyes and two cuts on his head, but the physician determined he didn’t suffer any head trauma, newly released medical records show.


The medical records document several injuries, but also state that the only reason Zimmerman sought medical attention was because he needed a doctor’s note to return to work, Duval County Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda said in court last week.



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html

---

Zimmerman's story just doesn't seem to add up, it appears to be unraveling as more evidence is released.

According to his own family doctor, he didn't really have any head trauma, this just doesn't seem to be consistent with his story about having his head smashed into concrete to the point where he began to fear for his life and felt like he had no alternative but to kill his attacker.

[arcane1]

1. Maybe his father broke his nose

Regardless, that stuff tends to HURT, and I can't imagine it being being treated simply because a doctor's note was needed. Hell, he has a freakin' police report already!!

[magical thyme]

3. the emt reported the broken nose

It is more like that Martin managed to get off one decent punch to the nose while defending his own life from a stalker, before Zimmerman pulled his gun. My guess is he fell backwards and hit his head, thus the 2 tiny scratches to the back of his head.

Half his head covered in blood, according to the EMT. Which looks dramatic, but half my head was covered in blood when I was beaned by an icicle last winter. The scalp is rich in blood vessels and bleeds profusely with minor injuries.

[neohippie]

4. I not one of those who thinks that he faked his own injuries

I believe it is possible that Travyon did punch him in the nose, but it was probably after Zimmerman tried to illegally detain him or grabbed him without identifying himself, or at the very least, scared him enough that he felt backed into a corner and had already tried to flee from him, but the story Zimmerman tells, seems to be a delusion that he created in his own mind, that justified his actions, by making himself out to be some kind of hero defending his neighborhood from a thug, not at all in sync with the facts, he had incorrectly profiled Martin, then stalked him in his vehicle, and then on foot, chasing him into a corner, a scared boy, who could blame him if he did try to defend himself from some unknown assailant

[GoCubsGo]

12. Yep. If someone grabbed me, I'd break their nose, too.

It's not hard to do. All it takes is the heel of your hand shoved up the nose. And, the owner of that nose will probably wind up with a couple of black eyes from it, too.

This kid was walking and minding his own business. What kind of injuries he may or may not have inflicted on that clown are irrelevant. Zimmerman instigated the whole thing, after he was told multiple times to stay away from Trayvon. I say, "Bed. Made. Lie."

[rl6214]

25. That sort of action could be called attempted murder

"All it takes is the heel of your hand shoved up the nose."

Doing that will drive the nose bone right up into the brain

[GoCubsGo]

27. No. It would be called "self-defense".

I was taught that technique by a police officer in a self-defense class, BTW. If someone attacks you, you are free to do whatever it takes to protect yourself, even if it means driving the attacker's "nose bone" into his brain.

[Canopus]

35. Yes, and it depends on who was the attacker. Following someone is not attacking them.

Sorry.

[GoCubsGo]

36. No shit.

That was my point.

[Canopus]

37. Your 'point' is dependent on your belief that Zimmerman attacked Martin, That is far from a proven

allegation, it is equally likely that Martin attacked Zim. If you were not there and witnessed it, you can't possibly know which of those 2 alternatives is factual.

[crim son]

40. You are right. We do know that Zimmerman was following Trayvon.

Maybe Trayvon felt mortally threatened and decided to "stand his ground".

[Canopus]

45. It's possible, but that would have simply been another example of improperly asserting the right.

I find it interesting how so many people think Martin had that legal privilege but never would admit Zimmerman may have too (although Zimmerman has not, as wrongly claimed by many, made any attempt to use SYG as a defense.)

[spotbird]

49. If Zimmerman had not stalked Martin

would Martin have acted to defend himself?

At what point does prey have the right to turn against a predator? Or does a civilian pursuing another civilian for no illegal behavior, other than racial profiling, have absolute immunity from consequences when his places the object of his pursuit in mortal fear?

Please answer each question.

[JDPriestly]

52. Except that Zimmerman admitted in his first call to 911 that

Zimmerman was following Trayvon Martin. So Trayvon could have reasonably feared for his life when Zimmerman got close to him. We shall see what the evidence shows at trial.

I am very curious and have lots of questions that I hope will be answered in a trial.

How does Zimmerman explain that he and Trayvon Martin were in the same place between the houses far from the pool entrance when Zimmerman started out at the pool entrance and Trayvon was headed to (possibly running to) near the other end of the development?

I heard that Zimmerman explained that he was looking for the address. Of what? And why? And why was he looking for an address in the path behind the houses. Addresses are usually in the fronts of houses.

And from that first call to 911 we can assume that Zimmerman was waiting for the police to come, so why did Zimmerman go behind the houses in the pathway between the houses where the police car would not go and would not easily find him?

These questions have to be answered in my opinion. And I think it is going to take a lot of creativity on Zimmerman's part to answer those questions -- in my opinion.

[cstanleytech]

60. Zimmerman is going to have a huge credibility problem though if he testifies

because the prosecution can then enter his statements where he lied at his first bond hearing to call into question his testimony.

[hack89]

61. Depending on Zimmerman's defense, that may all be irrelevant

This is not a SYG case - Zimmerman will make a standard self defense defense. Under Florida self defense law, there are two circumstances where the aggressor retains the right to use lethal force in self defense.

776.041?Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)?Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)?Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)?Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)?In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.041.html

He will plead SYG just to see if he can get it past the judge, but judging from his comments and the leaked evidence, I bet he will use either (or perhaps both) sections a and b of the above law as his defense.

He can admit to following Martin and still plead self defense.

Just so it is clear, I think he is guilty and should go prison. I am just pointing out that the reality of what the law actually says is often not what you would think.

[JDPriestly]

65. The outcome will depend on the evidence.

And that will depend on what the judge allows to come into evidence.

Also, as I understand it, unless Zimmerman prevails on the SYG defense, the prosecutor gets to present his or her case. It looks like Zimmerman is planning to testify which means he will be cross-examined. His claims may not stand up under cross. And, if the prosecutor is any good, Zimmerman will have to answer the questions I have asked. In so doing, he is likely to have some problems in my opinion. His story just does not ring true. Remember all these events happened in a few minutes.

But then so much depends on the judge and what evidence is permitted to come in.

We don't know what the witnesses will say at trial. There are always surprises. I would be surprised if Zimmerman goes to trial. But he may be foolhardy enough.

[hack89]

69. Very true

The problem for the prosecutor is that without any real eyewitnesses and with only one side of the story being told, "beyond a reasonable doubt" becomes a very high bar. It is not enough to shed doubt on Zimmerman's story - the prosecutor has to prove what actually happened.

[JDPriestly]

70. No! The prosecutor does not have to prove what actually happened.

Not unless the jury insists on that.

The prosecutor can catch Zimmerman in lies and put his stories in such doubt that he is convicted.

That will be particularly true if Zimmerman's story is the only one told. The jury will either believe or disbelieve him.

The case is a big challenge for the prosecutor. But not an impossible one. And the fact is that Zimmerman's story does have a lot of holes and some contradictions. But you never know with a jury. The OJ jury surprised many, many people.

Even though the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, people who are perceived to be lying or socially undesirable get convicted on little evidence every day.

[hack89]

71. Doubt is not the truth

Placing doubt on Zimmerman's story does not translate into "we do not know what really happened but since Mr Zimmerman is not trustworthy you know he has to be guilty of something really bad."

The defense will say "this is what the law says. The prosecutor must answer each point of the law to find my client guilty of a crime."

The prosecutor has to make a case. They have to do more than prove Zimmerman is a bad person and untrustworthy. They have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman committed murder.

[neohippie]

72. it doesn't appear that deadly force was the only way Zimmerman could have stopped Martin

if there was an altercation between Martin and Zimmerman, it doesn't appear by the physical evidence of Zimmerman's injuries that deadly force was the only way that Zimmerman could have stopped Martin, that could lead to manslaughter charges, either way, the whole event, doesn't appear to be as cut and dry as anyone first thought, and Zimmerman, certainly should have been charged from the start

[hack89]

73. There is nothing cut and dry about this case from a legal perspective. nt

[JDPriestly]

74. Doubt is not the untruth either.

If the jury thinks that Zimmerman is lying, there is a good chance they will convict him. Because why would he lie if he isn't guilty.

If there is a convincing and trustworthy witness or video tape that corroborates the details of Zimmerman's story, he is more likely to be believed. If not, it will come down to which case is more credible -- the defense or the prosecution.

And Zimmerman's story has some big problems. But the prosecution has a difficult case to present too. And, of course, a lot of things we read on the internet may not be admitted into evidence at trial.

Plus, every witness (for both sides) has to face cross-examination. And that can place enough doubt on the case of either side to give the jury reason to decide for the other.

This is a 2nd degree homicide case. The jury is likely to take it quite seriously.

[hack89]

75. Zimmerman does not have to testify

the prosecution has to make a convincing case. What if their case is so weak that Zimmerman doesn't have to testify? It is pretty straight forward - having been on a jury for a serious felony, I know exactly what the judge will tell the jury - "you cannot hold Mr Zimmerman's deciding not to testify against him. The state has the obligation to prove Mr Zimmerman's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If they fail to do that then you have no choice but to find Mr Zimmerman not guilty."

You seem to be under the impression that Zimmerman has to testify. He will only testify if the state has a decent case. It remains to be seen whether that is actually the case.

[JDPriestly]

76. In fact, I didn't think he would testify.

But how else does he present evidence of a permissible defense? The only defense he has is his version of what happened.

[hack89]

77. That would only apply to the pre-trial SYG hearing

in a trial, the prosecution has to prove that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Independent of what Zimmerman says, the prosecution has to make a case with the evidence to support it. If they can't do that then he walks.

Not saying that is what will happen but if the prosecution is depending on Zimmerman to make their case for them then they have no case.

[JDPriestly]

78. But there is no question that Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin.

That will be easy to prove. That pretty much assures a conviction at least on manslaughter. Then comes the issue as to whether Zimmerman had the intent to kill. He had a gun. He followed Trayvon Martin. He said he thought Trayvon Martin looked suspicious. He and Trayvon Martin met far from Zimmerman's car on a path behind the houses. Apparently there is a witness who will state that Trayvon Martin told her he was walking fast away from Zimmerman. Whether all that testimony will come in, hard to say.

So it will be up to Zimmerman to explain why the jury should believe that he was not following Trayvon Martin or whatever his defense will be.

I try to switch the parties when I think about this. What if Trayvon Martin, the African-American 17-year-old had parked his car, called 911, followed Zimmerman, met him on a path between the houses and somehow ended up shooting Zimmerman? Would Trayvon Martin have been indicted right away?

[demwing]

29. All this assumes Zimmerman had ANY right to approach or detain

he's not a police officer, nor even a security guard.

If some dude ordered me to stop walking down the street and tried to detain me, I wouldn't care if he identified himself, and it wouldn't matter if he "incorrectly profiled" me. He would have no right to dictate shit to me, and neither did Zimmerman to Martin.

[Canopus]

46. If you know Zimmerman tried to detain Martin, you really should give a deposition to the prosecution

They need a lot more evidence than they now have for a conviction.

[demwing]

48. I was responding to a specific post

so please go back and read that post before you get critical with me...

[The Magistrate]

51. You Really Think This Tired Wheeze is Clever, Fella, Don't You?

[joeglow3]

56. You realize smart ass comments don't prove you are right?

Conceptually, I truly believe we have one of the best judicial systems in the world. The concept of innoncet until proved guilty is the best possible approach to have. There are multiple scenarios that could have played out. We do NOT have proveable facts to state for certain what happened. The burden rests with the prosection (for which I am EXTREMELY glad). It is up to THEM to prove that Martin was attacked first. Frankly, it would scare the shit out of me if, judicially speaking, this case sets the precedent so many people here are seeking.

[The Magistrate]

57. You Talkin' To Me, Fella?

The person addressed has been expelled as a troll, and the rhetorical wheeze of telling people who express their considered opinion they had better contact the authorities to serve as witnesses has played out long ago, and was imbecilic nonesense from the start.

But if you really want to fight me it might be possible to accommodate you for a short while, though I do expect a busy day....

[joeglow3]

58. Not wanting to fight OR see one of my rights pissed away.

Innocent until proved guilty is a sacred right that needs to be retained.

[The Magistrate]

59. Do You Think The Troll Made A Legitimate Point In Replying To Post 29, Sir?

Small hint: it always helps to read the material at issue, makes one less likely to look foolish and have to close with an Emily Litella impersonation....

[joeglow3]

62. Yes I do

Granted, it was in a smart ass way (not so different from most of your replies), but the point is still valid. Stating a theory as fact and convicting someone based on that is 1980's Russia and NOT something people here should be supporting (even if it attains the outcome they desire).

[The Magistrate]

63. The Content Of Your Post, Sir, Has Nothing To Do With The Comments In Question

First, people certainly have a right to state their view of the facts in a public matter. They have a perfect right to do so even if you do not like their view of the facts, or sympathize with one side in the matter.

Second, the person actually used the conditional 'if', and stated what they considered a proper action to be if in that circumstance. And in fact, a person has no right to accost another on a public way, and a person so accosted has a perfect right to react in manners unpleasant to the accoster. It is a simple statement of fact that Zimmerman had no right whatever to ingterfere with Mr. Martin in any way.

Third, do you really think reaching for a Communist bogey-man amounts to a useful gambit? Are you seriously accusing members of this forum who express their view that Zimmerman murdered Mr. Martin of being Communists, in fact or spirit, and aping the practices of Soviet totalitarianism?

[JDPriestly]

66. And what will be admitted into evidence is the big question.

How much hearsay? How much of Zimmerman's story? What will the jury be told? What will they believe?

How will Zimmerman explain the inconsistencies in his story if he takes the stand? (Remember there is this nasty thing called "cross-examination." A real bear sometimes.)

What will other witnesses say once they are actually on the stand (assuming they are called).

Did the doctor x-ray the nose? Or is this just a diagnosis made based on something else? If there are x-rays, will an expert interpret them differently than the doctor?

It will be an interesting and controversial trial if it gets that far.

[Boabab]

31. I saw zero evidence of a broken nose or black eyes

during his casual stroll into the police station roughly 35 minutes after the shooting.

There was no cotton stuck in his nose, no sign of blood on the front of his neatly tucked-in shirt or on his jacket -- in fact, no evidence at all that he had been in a "life and death" struggle that would have justified killing an innocent, unarmed teen.

I want to hear more evidence on this, because that police video does not back up any claims that I've seen about GZ's supposed injuries.

[rocktivity]

2. NOBODY noticed that he had a broken nose until the next day?

The black eyes don't show up until 24 hours later? The EMT didn't notice? I would have think he would have sent Zimmerman hospital no matter what he said.


rocktivity

[slackmaster]

6. An EMT testified at the bond hearing last week that he noted the broken nose on the night of...

...the shooting. IIRC he testified advising Zimmerman to see a doctor about it.

[AnnieK401]

5. He has no credibility anyway!

Only 2 people truly know what took place that night. One is dead, the other is being caught in lie after lie (re: his finances, etc.)

[slackmaster]

7. Scalp damage can be considered head trauma, but the term usually refers to damage to the brain or...

...to the skull.

[Horse with no Name]

8. Any evidence that isn't noted at the scene of the crime is tainted

When he realized he killed someone without provocation--I can believe he would have someone rough him up to keep from going to prison for the rest of his life.

Doesn't pass the smell test.

[grasswire]

9. hell, we know his wife would do it to cover for him

She covered in other ways, even to the point of perjury.

She may have clobbered him.

[Auntie Bush]

14. Of course his wife would do it for him/them.

That's a small price to pay to help keep him out of prison for the rest of his life. They seem dishonest enough to try such a trick. He sure didn't have enough blood on his shirt to have a broken nose. You'd also think the medics would have taken him to the hospital had he been all beaten up enough to fear for his life. They'd also want to check him for concussion etc.

[2on2u]

15. Calahan did this to me....

[Canopus]

47. Wild unevidenced speculation doesn't pass the smell test either.

Just thought I'd mention that.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. the incident happened on a sunday night- why would he have needed a note

to return to work the next day? And from what I remember reading before he was arrested, he never returned to work after the incident?

[JDPriestly]

67. I wondered about that too? Did he miss a day of work?

It's possible that he did. It wouldn't necessarily be relevant unless the doctor's testimony introduced the issue, I suppose.

[auburngrad82]

11. Again, if a strange man came up to me with a gun I would "stand my ground" and fight for my life

If Trayvon Martin hurt the bastard more power to him. It does not change the fact that approaching an unarmed stranger who is simply walking down the street with a drawn weapon does not give you a right to claim stand your ground. You're the aggressor in this situation.

[slackmaster]

13. At what point do you believe that Trayvon became aware of the presence of the gun?

It does not change the fact that approaching an unarmed stranger who is simply walking down the street with a drawn weapon...

Do you believe that Zimmerman was walking with his weapon drawn?

That's not in any of the police reports or witness statements or recordings I've seen or heard. Where did you get that information?

[iamthebandfanman]

18. Yeah

and we know the police did a bang up job on reports about the incident and the scene right ?

yes, i believe he had his weapon drawn.

youre telling me he was able to get control of his weapon, from a holstered position, while he was supposedly getting the shit kicked out of him?

unfortunately, because the police did such a bang up job... i guess we may not ever know whos right eh ?

[slackmaster]

19. All I know for sure is that he initiated and pursued an encounter that resulted in a fatal shooting

I've maintained from the very beginning that Zimmerman is morally responsible for the death.

The details are pretty murky, but I haven't seen anything that indicates he was pursuing Trayvon with a weapon drawn. Or that he grabbed Trayvon as suggested by another contributor above.

I can't imagine Trayvon attacking a person who was brandishing a gun at him. It doesn't make sense. My instinct, and the behavior I have been taught in self-defense classes, would be to run like hell away from the guy.

[Canopus]

34. The obvious explanation is that nobody was brandishing a gun at him.

That is supported by the pretty obvious fact that he did -not- run away. I realize it's impossible to suggest Zimmerman should get a fair trial around here without being branded a racist, but it really should be the proper approach.

[neohippie]

64. there aren't really any good witnesses

most of the information about the actual altercation comes from Zimmerman's account, which from what I have read, varies in his 5 different statements to the police and will be part of the argument from the prosecution.

But, there is one fact that is clear. Tryavon Martin, did attempt to flee, he ran away from Zimmerman once he realized that he was being followed by him in his vehicle, after he approached Zimmerman in the vehicle and after Zimmerman denied that he was following him and then rolled up his window. These are established facts. Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman, and tried to flee. Unfortunately, Zimmerman, decided to pursue on foot, claiming that he was only trying to get a street name for the 911 operator, but since we also know that he followed Martin into the dark area well away from the road and that is where the altercation took place. This action of leaving the protection of his vehicle was a sign to the detective investigating the shooting that Zimmerman was not acting like someone who was fearful.

Those are not disputable facts, Zimmerman pursued aggressively, both in and away from his vehicle, Martin, tried to flee and stopped when he was out of breath. Zimmerman managed to catch up to where he stopped and the rest is not so clear, but one fact is not disputed except apparently in the minds of many Zimmerman supporters but Martin, did try to run away and avoid conflict, and that doesn't quite fit into the neat little story that Zimmerman wants you to believe that Martin, was a vicious thug, who told him that he was going to die that night

[FedUpWithIt All]

26. Agreed. Why is it not clear that Trayvon had just as much right to "stand his ground".

Not difficult to imagine that a stalked and confronted teenager would have been legitimately fearing for his life...and in this case, rightly so.

This case is so infuriating

[JDPriestly]

68. That may be something the jury has to decide at the trial.

I think that could be a key issue because it bears on which of them was the aggressor.

There are real questions about that which I raise in another post in this thread.

[DallasNE]

16. I Found This Link Just As Interesting

As it helps give a clearer picture of the person Zimmerman really is

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2871449/zimmerman-failed-to-appear-in.html#moreb

As this article shows, Zimmerman failed to appear at a disposition hearing and was fined $10,000 but never paid the fine. He also got an $18,000 check and stiffed his attorney. Everything about the man shows him to be a sleezbag. Oh, and I wonder if he declared that $18,000 as taxable income on his 1040?

[iamthebandfanman]

17. again, zimmermans trama

, assuming there actually were some,
is not an indication of anything.

im sorry, but if a guy was following me with a gun out and started making demands or threats too me... id probably defend myself too.

[BlueToTheBone]

20. Did his daddy beat the crap out of him?

My lying eyes did not see any of that on the police video.

[jade3000]

21. Trial might be interesting

Each little bit of evidence makes me think it could be an interesting trial. It might be something that actually deepens our national conversation about race, profiling, and guns. Or it could just be a hot mess.

I for one think Zimmerman's definitely guilty of manslaughter. I'm undecided about the 2nd degree murder charge.

[heaven05]

22. so

well, i'm very decided that it was unprovoked MURDER!

[heaven05]

39. really?

being a zimmerman apologist as you are, I understand your rationale, but as a person who says, aggressively following someone should not have been a problem for martin I never will understand. If I was walking down the street and someone was keying on me, I'd fight if they came up on me, they don't have that right to invade my space. but maybe it's just racial. Black youngster should have just genuflected to the neighborhood watch/police wannabe. Right? never happen g.i. Yeah, I hope they don't riot either.

[catchnrelease]

23. I don't see how we will ever know what really happened

All we have is Zimmerman's version of what happened that night and it is entirely self-serving. People keep speculating that Trayvon might have punched Z in the face in self-defense. But a punch isn't even necessary. Maybe Trayvon turned around with an arm raised when confronted by Z, or during a struggle, and caught Z in the face with an elbow, more inadvertently than on purpose. That could have sent Z falling backwards, accounting for both the fractured nose (according to the article the septum was not even deviated), and the head "wounds". Maybe that enraged Z so much that he pulled his gun, this is when you hear Trayvon calling for help, and shot out of anger more than fear for his life. This is just my speculating of course, but I just have a difficult time believing that Trayvon turned into an extreme fighting guy out of the blue.

Also, if Zimmerman's head had been bashed on the concrete, couldn't there have been some abrasions or bruising where those little cuts were, by the next day?

[JDPriestly]

24. Zimmerman stated that he was following Trayvon.

There will be evidence on what Trayvon was reporting to his friend on the phone at the time that Zimmerman was following him. Why was Zimmerman following Trayvon Martin? Zimmerman claims to have feared for his life. Did Zimmerman in fact stalk Trayvon Martin? If so, why?

Was Trayvon Martin afraid for his life? Did Trayvon Martin therefore have the right to stand his ground in the face of Zimmerman's following, possibly stalking, him?

Was Zimmerman's claimed fear for his life reasonable under the circumstances? Would a reasonable person have been afraid for his life?

Who was the aggressor in the situation?

Were Zimmerman's fears about Trayvon sufficient to make it reasonable for him to have followed Trayvon Martin?

These are some of the questions that will have to be answered. Zimmerman's account may be contradicted by the very events that he recounts.

I don't know the answers to the questions I am asking. Certainly we can't just take Zimmerman's word for anything until he is cross-examined and until other witnesses are cross-examined. Either Zimmerman will have to testify at a trial or plead to some charge seems to me. The evidence that he is supplying to the press just does not suffice to answer the key questions. It can't. We won't have the answers until we see the prosecution witnesses and hear their statements. I don't think we have any of that information. Thus far, we are mostly hearing Zimmerman's side of things. Not that it is necessarily false, but it is not the whole story as I see it.

[HelenWheels]

28. Septum deviation

Can a nose be considered fractured without any deviation of the septum?

[catchnrelease]

30. I don't know for sure

I would guess that you could have a fracture if you were hit high enough on the nose, like on the bridge area, and not deviate the septum. It just seems like a punch or hit to the face would cover a larger area and be more likely to cause deviation. (My husband just mentioned that while in his '20's he was hit in the face with a softball, which deviated his septum but didn't actually break his nose.)

[obamanut2012]

32. He could have hit his nose on Trayvon's head

The pistol could have bucked back and hit his nose, Travyon could have broken his nose defending his life.

I have had two broken noses and several black eyes. Whatever. Trayvon is dead.

[Canopus]

33. I have to say I think Zimmerman's account is every bit as believable as that from those who want to

convict him in the media.

[crim son]

41. I wonder if you read about Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon's last words were

"You got me." You find that believable? Seriously?

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/06/21/Zimmerman-Martin-said-you-got-me/UPI-30741340287485/

Edited to add link

[Canopus]

44. I don't find it unbelievable, no. As a former policeman, I witnessed similar things.

As far as I know, there is no standard comment required from someone who has been shot, although "OH SHIT" is very common.

[crim son]

53. While there is no standard comment,

you, as a former policeman, must know very well that a teenager who has been mortally wounded isn't going to say something like "You got me." Or perhaps you have never met a teenager.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. You're skating on thin ice, troll. Tread lightly.

[Canopus]

43. Having an opinion is 'skating on thin ice'?? According to whom?

You?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. No, to DU. You're sounding like you watch Faux News. Again, tread lightly.

[crim son]

54. I think it's doing pretty well walking the fine line

while still being very amusing. Leave it be!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. You're right. Interesting and funny to see what happens.

[DiverDave]

79. So when was the police tape shot?

He had NO visible injuries in that tape.
He was walking unaided too.
So where is all this 'battle damage'??
lies, and stupid lies at that.