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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:21 PM Oct 2016

Ruth Bader Ginsburg Calls NFL Anthem Protests ‘Dumb And Disrespectful’

Source: Talking Points Memo

Liberal Supreme Court stalwart Ruth Bader Ginsburg took aim at San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick for spearheading a wave of NFL player protests of the national anthem over police brutality and systemic racism, calling their actions “dumb and disrespectful.”

“I think it’s really dumb of them,” Ginsburg told Yahoo News of Kaepernick and other football stars refusing to stand during the “Star Spangled Banner."

“Would I arrest them for doing it? No,” Ginsburg continued. “I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning. I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.”

Yahoo’s Katie Couric asked if she believed their actions were “within their rights” to exercise. “Yes,” Ginsburg replied. “If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that. What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.”

-snip-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ruth-bade-ginsburg-nfl-kaepernick-protests-dumb



video at TPM link, above.
69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ruth Bader Ginsburg Calls NFL Anthem Protests ‘Dumb And Disrespectful’ (Original Post) DonViejo Oct 2016 OP
She lost me on this. geardaddy Oct 2016 #1
She has me even more. it's easy to defend speech you agree with. msanthrope Oct 2016 #5
She defends the rights of them to do this oberliner Oct 2016 #12
I agree with her on the "not arresting" them stuff. geardaddy Oct 2016 #20
Protests should bring reform Roy Rolling Oct 2016 #24
Fuck patriotism. ronnie624 Oct 2016 #30
Jingoism (the name for the brand of patriotism pushed by the right) is stupid. BlueEye Oct 2016 #45
More than anything, ronnie624 Oct 2016 #48
Check out the HBO Real Sports on Kaep and history of wartime flag ceremonies at sporting events. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #52
That is actually quite interesting, I will have to check it out. BlueEye Oct 2016 #65
Just imagine the shitstorm MicaelS Oct 2016 #32
Me too... Hachetman Oct 2016 #16
I'm sure she's real broke up by that. Loki Liesmith Oct 2016 #27
Whatever. I still like her and support her. geardaddy Oct 2016 #28
Why? nini Oct 2016 #63
I realize that now. I misread the post. geardaddy Oct 2016 #64
cool nini Oct 2016 #66
I respectfully disagree with The Honorable Justice Ginsburg Buzz Clik Oct 2016 #2
lol - None of the hypocrites even know the lyrics. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #53
"Dave Matthews Band in the late 60s" ? mahatmakanejeeves Oct 2016 #54
I'm mixing up the name of the artist. It was in the HBO Real Sports story on the anthem protest. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #55
Didn't see that. I can't recall the incident. I'll delete my posts if you can mahatmakanejeeves Oct 2016 #56
No need to delete. I couldn't find, but it's in the Real Sports flag episode. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #57
I never knew about that racist verse GummyBearz Oct 2016 #68
She thinks it's stupid, but she doesn't try to impose her views on all Americans Democat Oct 2016 #3
I respect the Justice but's she's out of touch on this issue. brush Oct 2016 #31
She treads heavily; but it's the truth. forest444 Oct 2016 #4
That is exactly how the "leaders" responded to the Civil Rights protests in the 1960s. nt tblue37 Oct 2016 #42
I hear you. forest444 Oct 2016 #43
I don't agree. Like all such movements, it starts small, then spreads. One excellent consequence tblue37 Oct 2016 #49
I hope you're right. forest444 Oct 2016 #50
I think you're wrong in saying it does nothing. The protests have got the country's attention . . . brush Oct 2016 #67
it's easy to defend speech you like. msanthrope Oct 2016 #6
She defends their rights oberliner Oct 2016 #13
Name calling! atreides1 Oct 2016 #7
Reading comprehension fail NobodyHere Oct 2016 #9
Donald Trump is exercising his rights to be a sexist asshole Democat Oct 2016 #14
Sure, they can be. MicaelS Oct 2016 #33
White privilege is dumb and disrespectful. GeorgeGist Oct 2016 #8
Anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is a racist? Democat Oct 2016 #15
Clearly not was said -nt Bradical79 Oct 2016 #46
Its also the convenient excuse-du-jour 7962 Oct 2016 #18
I don't think it was dumb; I think it was thoughtful, and certainly bold. closeupready Oct 2016 #11
It's so stupid ... aggiesal Oct 2016 #17
We are having the conversation about the protest itself ripcord Oct 2016 #37
Agree. deathrind Oct 2016 #19
Such as? kristopher Oct 2016 #23
Since there... deathrind Oct 2016 #29
I think it's a great way to protest. Ilsa Oct 2016 #21
An excellent clock can be wrong once a day, I guess... anoNY42 Oct 2016 #22
It's "dumb and disrespectful" for the . . FairWinds Oct 2016 #25
It's dumb and disrespectful to the SSB to play it at sporting events. malachi Oct 2016 #26
And "God Bless America" is blasphemous to certain religious (and non-religious) groups. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #61
"Yahoo’s Katie Couric asked if she believed their actions were “within their rights” to exercise." MadDAsHell Oct 2016 #34
Lots of dumb people demanded Kaepernick's arrest and imprisonment. closeupready Oct 2016 #38
The press's job isn't to "educate" people on what they should or shouldn't think though. MadDAsHell Oct 2016 #40
The headline is sensational enough for me. nt Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #58
I totally agree pintobean Oct 2016 #35
I agree with her. She says no they should not be arrested but I personally think the OregonBlue Oct 2016 #36
She shows her wisdom once again. ileus Oct 2016 #39
Sorry, RBG. I love ya, but you need to check your white privilege here. tblue37 Oct 2016 #41
Why even have the national anthem before a sporting event? Does the NYSE stand for the anthem.... xocet Oct 2016 #44
No, they make people stand to honor cartoon characters and washed-up celebrities. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #60
Actually it isn't "within their rights" as the NFL is a private organization... PoliticAverse Oct 2016 #51
There's been court rulings on loyalty oaths in workplace. Flag ceremony is often military-sponsored. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2016 #59
I really like RBG but I disagree with her on this. leftyladyfrommo Oct 2016 #69
Dec 1969 #
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
5. She has me even more. it's easy to defend speech you agree with.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:25 PM
Oct 2016

Much tougher to defend the rights of those who offend us.

geardaddy

(25,014 posts)
20. I agree with her on the "not arresting" them stuff.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 02:12 PM
Oct 2016

And understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with her that the protests are stupid.

Roy Rolling

(6,992 posts)
24. Protests should bring reform
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 03:21 PM
Oct 2016

After the zillionth person refuses to stand for the national anthem the impact has played out. Then it becomes a spectacle in itself, not something to bring attention to an injustice.

So the question is, people will say, why stop if there is still injustice? Because the destination of zero injustice is not the goal, it is the journey that counts. Get the ball rolling, move on to another tactic.

What began as a legitimate protest is now a fad.

BlueEye

(449 posts)
45. Jingoism (the name for the brand of patriotism pushed by the right) is stupid.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 08:15 PM
Oct 2016

But many progressive jurists, or which Ginsburg is one, will tell you that the flag and the Constitution it stands for represent very progressive ideas. Or at least, a modern interpretation of it allows for progressivism and social justice.

Yes, the United States government was once an enabler of racial oppression. But in the past fifty years, Federal power has been used to end discrimination. There are numerous examples to cite, from the VRA, to affirmative action programs, to laws against hate crimes. Now we have a LONG way to go. But the Federal government, and it's flag, are a slightly ironic target of protest.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
48. More than anything,
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 08:51 PM
Oct 2016

patriotism is promoted for the purpose of manufacturing consent for military aggression. All of the progressive principles you cite, are embodied by the constitution, not the flag and not the national anthem.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
52. Check out the HBO Real Sports on Kaep and history of wartime flag ceremonies at sporting events.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:13 PM
Oct 2016

I found the HBO Real Sports documentary by Bryant Gumbel from a couple weeks ago very enlightening.

It started during WWI as a means of expressing wartime patriotism and support for the war (at a time when people were being jailed and deported for speaking out against the war.) The anthem itself is not original, nor do other countries force their citizens to stand and sing national anthems. That is a product of the early 20th-century fascism, of which the US came dangerously close to being part of (with the previous ethno-nationalist movement of the 1920s-30s.)

The original salute required to "not disrespect" the flag (and hence not offend Ginsberg, et al) was none other than the fascist salute, per Bryant Gumbel. It was dropped in 1942 in favor of the silly (and non-valid military protocol) hand-over-heart civilian salute.

BlueEye

(449 posts)
65. That is actually quite interesting, I will have to check it out.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 08:33 PM
Oct 2016

Real Sports does some fascinating journalism.

I did know that the original flag salute was the fascist salute. I recall seeing an old video with schoolchildren doing it... Very bizarre. I had no idea the whole history though!

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
32. Just imagine the shitstorm
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 04:37 PM
Oct 2016

If some RW asshole ball player was protesting abortion being legal. I wonder what would happen then?

Personally, I do not think politics or religion of any kind belongs at a sporting event. I thought Tebow was a dumb ass, BTW.

nini

(16,672 posts)
63. Why?
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 05:07 PM
Oct 2016

She is reinforcing the need to defend people who do things you may not agree with the methods.


I didn't read where she said the Black Lives Matter in general was bad. Now if she came out and said that it'd be another story completely.

geardaddy

(25,014 posts)
64. I realize that now. I misread the post.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 05:33 PM
Oct 2016

I support her supporting the right to protest even if she doesn't agree with the methods.

nini

(16,672 posts)
66. cool
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 08:45 PM
Oct 2016

I've even defended the idiot Rush's right to be an asshole.. and yes I had to fight the urge to vomit in my mouth while doing so LOL

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
2. I respectfully disagree with The Honorable Justice Ginsburg
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:25 PM
Oct 2016

The protests are necessary and important.

In contrast, I find the routine, reflexive standing and mumbling of the anthem to be a total waste of time.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
53. lol - None of the hypocrites even know the lyrics.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:17 PM
Oct 2016

Including the bit about treacherous black slaves fighting for the Redcoats.

Or the vicious attacks on Dave Matthews Band in the late 60s for their (folky white) "soul rendition" of the anthem at a time when only soldiers were allowed to sing the anthem.

Igor Stravinsky's first of his four 1941 arrangements of the "Star-Spangled Banner" led to an incident on January 15, 1944 with the Boston police, but "Boston Police Commissioner Thomas F. Sullivan said there would be no action." "After Stravinsky conducted it with the Boston Symphony for the first time in 1944, the police informed the composer of a Massachusetts law against tampering with national property, and removed the parts from Symphony Hall." The incident soon established itself as a myth in which Stravinsky was supposedly arrested for playing the music. -- Wikipedia

IT CAN HAPPEN HERE, Justice Ginsburg. Your words have consequences.
(That's why defending free speech has nothing to do with disagreement)

Justice Ginsburg says Kaep "should not be arrested", implying that there is a push to have him not just fired (the new McCarthyism) but locked up.

mahatmakanejeeves

(58,406 posts)
54. "Dave Matthews Band in the late 60s" ?
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:47 PM
Oct 2016

They don't go back that far. Must be someone else.

"when only soldiers were allowed to sing the anthem."

Now I'm at a loss.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
55. I'm mixing up the name of the artist. It was in the HBO Real Sports story on the anthem protest.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:49 PM
Oct 2016

He had to be escorted out of the stadium for singing a (white folk music) "Soul" rendition of the anthem.

This was at a time when military-style bands played the anthem, not pop singers.

Now we live in an age of "Born in the USA" when "black-sounding" pop music is appropriated by white-nationalist xenophobes instead of being booed off the stage.

There was an interesting transition in the 70s in the history of white reactions to black culture with Lynyrd Skynyrd throwing blacks out of their "hippie" audience by refusing to play "Sweet Home Alabama" (according to the Muscle Shoals documentary) at Confederate flag-draped stadiums of their supposedly positive-minded lyrics.

Since Skynyrd it's been widely understood in the alt-right online and sports-fan troll communities that appropriation is key to rendering the culture of their enemies irrelevant.

mahatmakanejeeves

(58,406 posts)
56. Didn't see that. I can't recall the incident. I'll delete my posts if you can
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:51 PM
Oct 2016

come up with the name of the group.

Thanks.

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
68. I never knew about that racist verse
Wed Oct 12, 2016, 09:12 AM
Oct 2016

Because it has never been included at sporting events in my lifetime. So they really aren't singing the original poem by Keys, they are singing a song based on a poem and purposely cutting out the racist parts. That is a good thing... racism needs to be cut out of everything.

Democat

(11,617 posts)
3. She thinks it's stupid, but she doesn't try to impose her views on all Americans
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:25 PM
Oct 2016

Unlike right wingers who want everyone to obey their personal views or go to jail.

brush

(54,609 posts)
31. I respect the Justice but's she's out of touch on this issue.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 04:14 PM
Oct 2016

All she has to do is ask the families of African-American, Mexican-Americans and other POCs of the unarmed victims of police killings.

She can't ask the victims of course because they are dead.

I'm glad she stayed on the bench this long but it may be time for her to step down after Hillary wins.

I mean after all the many killings of unarmed black men by police all she had to say about the protests is that "it's stupid".

It's like she's unaware of the reasons for Kaepernick's protest.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
4. She treads heavily; but it's the truth.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:25 PM
Oct 2016

It's dumb in the sense that it works very much at cross purposes with what they were trying to accomplish, and only pushes people away.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
43. I hear you.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 07:30 PM
Oct 2016

But please don't read too much in my comment. I was referring to the specific act of refusing to stand at attention during the National Anthem.

It really does nothing for civil rights or the efforts to abate police abuses, and instead is political manna from heaven for the deplorables among us.

tblue37

(65,829 posts)
49. I don't agree. Like all such movements, it starts small, then spreads. One excellent consequence
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 10:41 PM
Oct 2016

is how it spotlights the hypocrisy of those who claim their only real problem with protests against police shootings of unarmed black men is that the protesters need to be less rude, obnoxious, and annoying, but instead find some more restrained and decorous means of protesting.

Well, they found a perfectly polite and quiet way to protest, and people can't abide their approach.

The protest is against what is essentially a modern form of lynching by armed agents of the state. Noisy, rambunctious, and inconveniently obstructive protests against such brutality are perfectly justified, but this form is attention getting without being loud, dangerous, or obstructive, so critics should approve of it.

brush

(54,609 posts)
67. I think you're wrong in saying it does nothing. The protests have got the country's attention . . .
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 10:38 PM
Oct 2016

on the issue of police killings of unarmed black men.

And notice I wrote "protests" not "protest" as Kaepernick's quiet, non-violent action has spread to include many other athletes on not just the professional level in sports other than football but also to college and high school athletes.

That's quite a lot of "nothing" don't you think?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
6. it's easy to defend speech you like.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:26 PM
Oct 2016

Much tougher to defend the rights of those you think are assholes.

Democat

(11,617 posts)
14. Donald Trump is exercising his rights to be a sexist asshole
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:50 PM
Oct 2016

Anyone who calls Trump stupid is name calling?

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
33. Sure, they can be.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 04:41 PM
Oct 2016

Nazis, or KKK marching or the RW talking about 2nd Amendment solutions comes to mind.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
11. I don't think it was dumb; I think it was thoughtful, and certainly bold.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:36 PM
Oct 2016

It would have been dumb if the objective were to please fans; but obviously, the objective was to express opposition to the status quo, i.e., he did something that pissed most people off.

Was it disrespectful? Yes, but again, that was the point.

aggiesal

(9,069 posts)
17. It's so stupid ...
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 01:52 PM
Oct 2016

that we are now having a conversation
we should have had years ago.

I respectfully disagree with the Hon. Justice Bader.

 

ripcord

(5,553 posts)
37. We are having the conversation about the protest itself
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 05:47 PM
Oct 2016

The reason for the protest is lost in the background noise.

deathrind

(1,786 posts)
29. Since there...
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 04:10 PM
Oct 2016

Is already a nationally recognized organization (BLM) bringing awareness and speaking out about this issue. Teaming up with them and bringing his resources to the table would be one better way.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
25. It's "dumb and disrespectful" for the . .
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 03:23 PM
Oct 2016

Judicial branch of government to do nothing to bring
the US torturers to justice.

I'm a Vietnam vet, and I no longer stand up and
salute the torture state.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
61. And "God Bless America" is blasphemous to certain religious (and non-religious) groups.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 03:08 PM
Oct 2016

And disrespectful to the tradition of playing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" instead.

But those of us that object, don't tend to riot about it.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
34. "Yahoo’s Katie Couric asked if she believed their actions were “within their rights” to exercise."
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 05:16 PM
Oct 2016

Speaking of "dumb," what a dumb question from Couric.

You're asking a Supreme Court Justice "if she believes" it's within their rights to not stand for the National Anthem? What's the point of that question?

Seems like a gotcha attempt in hopes that RBG will say no and Couric can have a sensational headline.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
38. Lots of dumb people demanded Kaepernick's arrest and imprisonment.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 05:53 PM
Oct 2016

Ergo, the purpose of Couric's 'dumb' question is to educate the thousands of dummies out there that people have the right to do this with impunity.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
40. The press's job isn't to "educate" people on what they should or shouldn't think though.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 06:05 PM
Oct 2016

If that was Couric's intent, to basically influence the readers/viewers/listeners by manipulating the question/answer process to achieve a certain response, then while I applaud her attempts to support Kaepernick, I don't applaud her manipulating a seemingly innocent question/answer session to achieve that.

That's actually a little scary that we love press people that do that.

OregonBlue

(7,768 posts)
36. I agree with her. She says no they should not be arrested but I personally think the
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 05:31 PM
Oct 2016

protest should be connected to the criminals behaviors (brutal police, justice system, etc.)This seem disconnected and therefore not very effective.

tblue37

(65,829 posts)
41. Sorry, RBG. I love ya, but you need to check your white privilege here.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 07:08 PM
Oct 2016

His protest is a perfect approach, and it has gone viral.

xocet

(3,893 posts)
44. Why even have the national anthem before a sporting event? Does the NYSE stand for the anthem....
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 08:03 PM
Oct 2016

before the opening bell?

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
60. No, they make people stand to honor cartoon characters and washed-up celebrities.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 03:05 PM
Oct 2016

Admittedly, I might be willing to endorse a cartoon character for President, so it's political.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
51. Actually it isn't "within their rights" as the NFL is a private organization...
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 02:22 AM
Oct 2016

which could ban players from protesting in this way the same way the NFL enforces rules
against celebrations in the end zone.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
59. There's been court rulings on loyalty oaths in workplace. Flag ceremony is often military-sponsored.
Tue Oct 11, 2016, 03:01 PM
Oct 2016

So, no.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,918 posts)
69. I really like RBG but I disagree with her on this.
Wed Oct 12, 2016, 10:57 AM
Oct 2016

I don't think these statements by athletes are dumb at all. They are just bringing attention to something that is very important in our society. It is peaceful and it is respectful.

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