Most Greeks want new government to renegotiate bailout: poll

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - Most Greeks want the government to renegotiate the terms of its EU/IMF bailout regardless of the impact this stance would have on the country's future in the eurozone, a poll showed on Saturday.

Greece is dependent on the funds from Brussels and the IMF for day to day state spending but in exchange for a second, 130 billion-euro bailout it is implementing spending cuts that have pushed it into its worst recession since World War Two and put one in five out of work.

An MRB poll for Sunday's Realnews showed that 73.9 percent of Greeks want the new coalition government to stick to its promises and demand a renegotiation of the bailout, even if this puts the country's euro membership at risk.

More than half of those polled said they believed Greece would stay in the euro zone, while 60.4 percent said international lenders would probably give Greece more time to implement the deficit-cutting measures they have prescribed or ease the terms of the bailout.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/14/uk-greece-poll-idUKBRE86D0BH20120714

[Vincardog]

1. Instead of negotiating more debt at higher interest rates the Greek People

should tell the international Bansters to go Cheney themselves.

[dipsydoodle]

2. That may well be some are hoping they will do.

The effect would be that would trigger all the CDS's other than EU loans / bailouts which are not necessarily covered by those, lead to the privatisation their state utilities etc which are secured in law against such event, take them out of the Euro and back to the Drachma and let them get on with it. Its is estimated that will take at least 20 years to sort themselves out.

[Vincardog]

3. It may be estimated to take 20 years, that is as opposed as getting deeper into a

Worse situation and NEVER getting out. I know which choice I would choose

[hack89]

5. I guess self imposed austerity is easier on the self esteem

I just don't get the sense that the Greek public is in the mood for sacrifice of any kind.

[Vincardog]

6. I think the Greek People should be waiting for the Bankster Gangsters to take their losses first.

Last edited Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

[hack89]

7. The banks have already agreed to a 75% haircut - it is part of the bailout.

If the Greeks push too hard, they will not be able to borrow a cent for years to come.

Considering they don't have enough cash on hand to run basic government services beyond this summer, the Greeks are facing austerity regardless of what they do.

[Vincardog]

9. Please post a link proving the 75% haircut for the Bankers.

[hack89]

11. Here you go

After several rounds of tough talks, representatives of banks that hold Greek bonds, who had agreed in October to take a 50 percent loss on the face value of their bonds, agreed to take a 53.5 percent loss on the face value, the equivalent to an overall loss of around 75 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/world/europe/agreement-close-on-a-bailout-for-greece-european-finance-ministers-say.html?_r=1

[Vincardog]

16. I wonder what they PAID for those bonds. You know it was not FACE value.

[hack89]

17. Instead of asking me, why don't you do some research? nt

[Vincardog]

19. I didn't say they agreed to take a 75% haircut. That implied they ere willing to suffer some pain

Instead they agreed in principle to forgo some profits in exchange for assuming THE MOST PREFERRED position among all claims.
It is not my job to prove your claims.

[dipsydoodle]

14. I have a feel that part of that discounting issue

was to do with the amount of the bailout which would otherwise have been spent on settling previous debt - helped reduce that amount.

The problem now is that in wanting to renegotiate the terms of that bailout demonstrates they can't keep their word and as such may affect the next bailout. The main provision of the last one was guaranteed quarterly repayments which were to take precedent over all other government expenditure - that was the deal..........take it or leave it.

[dipsydoodle]

8. The losses might not be what you would think

The lenders sell the debts on on occasions at discounted rates. The actual debt remains payable until settled or written off. There are still holders of Argentine debt in that way.

[xtraxritical]

4. It's the same plan Romney and his Ryan budget has for the USA.

The only way out of a recession/depression is to grow the economy by Keynesian methods. These austerity know nothings (republiCONS in the USA) are holding back the whole world. Once demand is established employment will pick up, of necessity, and tax revenues will surge. Really just straight forward macro economics 101.

[randome]

10. Most Greeks don't want to pay taxes, either.

That's one of the reasons they're in the mess they're in. Although the government should have been doing its job in the first place.

[grantcart]

13. and this just in most local Greek tax collectora prefer to keep their bribes.

[BT021]

12. Greeks really want the gravy train to keep going...

Greece in having trouble borrowing money.
something has to give.

there seems to be two possible outcomes...

1) years and years of gut wrenching austerity.

2) a break with the Euro, printing their own money,
hyperinflation, and years of pain.

[Bragi]

22. Guess who wasn't on the gravy train?

Missing from that train were the people now being asked to shoulder the burden of austerity.

[BT021]

26. that is debateable

the windfall of money (borrowed) from other countries helped almost everybody in Greece

[Cooley Hurd]

27. If, by "everybody" you mean the banks and financiers...

...then you might be right.

[Nye Bevan]

15. Greece is your deadbeat brother-in-law who wants to keep borrowing money from you

while complaining about you and bad-mouthing you.

[Bragi]

23. Guess which EU people work most hours?

Answer: Greeks

http://m.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours?cat=news&type=article


You're welcome.

[Nye Bevan]

24. It doesn't matter how many hours they work.

They could all work 100 hours per week, but if they don't pay their taxes Greece still gets screwed.

[Bragi]

25. Employees are usually taxed at source

It's the owners and independent professionals who are most able to avoid taxes, not employees.

Guess who is now asked to make the biggest sacrifices?

[Harmony Blue]

18. Greeks generally don't like Capitalism/Fascist systems

no wonder those that love Capitalism attack the Greeks so much.

Here is how many Greeks are circumventing the Capitalist machine:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120712-stepping-out-of-the-system

[quote]The barter idea is catching on in a number of cities in Greece during these lean economic times, returning communities to a centuries old system but with a digital twist. And it's not just in Greece. The global economic downturn has created renewed interest worldwide in alternative economic models.

"I think that people are becoming increasingly aware, over the past few years, that financial systems aren't sustainable. And that boom and bust is always going to be with us, despite politicians continually telling us they are going to work to remove [them]," says Ken Banks, who recently launched a project called Means of Exchange. The idea behind the project, says Banks, is to create a "toolbox" of web-based and mobile apps that will make it easier for people to engage in things like bartering, swapping and alternative currencies.[/quote]

[Nye Bevan]

20. The big problem is the number of Greeks circumventing the tax system.

Some of the most aggressive tax evaders, experts say, are the self-employed, a huge pool of people in this country of small businesses. It includes not just taxi drivers, restaurant owners and electricians, but engineers, architects, lawyers and doctors.

The cheating is often quite bold. When tax authorities recently surveyed the returns of 150 doctors with offices in the trendy Athens neighborhood of Kolonaki, where Prada and Chanel stores can be found, more than half had claimed an income of less than $40,000. Thirty-four of them claimed less than $13,300, a figure that exempted them from paying any taxes at all.

Such incomes defy belief, said Ilias Plaskovitis, the general secretary of the Finance Ministry, who has been in charge of revamping the country’s tax laws. “You need more than that to pay your rent in that neighborhood,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html?_r=1

[Bragi]

21. The real problem with the EU austerity plan

The problem is that the people in Greece who took all the money are not the people being asked to mske sacrifices.

For example, under the austerity plan, the minimum wage gets cut. Guess what? These are not the people who took all money, and they aren't the people who hid income to avoid taxes.