Army: Manning to lose transgender benefits

[Judi Lynn]

Source: The Hill

Army: Manning to lose transgender benefits
BY MARK HENSCH - 01/18/17 08:52 PM EST


The Army says former private Chelsea Manning will lose her military healthcare benefits following President Obama’s commutation of her prison sentence.

“If Pvt. Manning is discharged with a dishonorable discharge, she will lose her entitlement to [military] benefits, including gender-transition care at (military) medical treatment facilities,” Army spokeswoman Cynthia Smith told USA Today Wednesday.

Smith said Manning’s dishonorable discharge was included in the terms of the 35-year prison sentence imposed on her in 2013.

Manning was convicted of leaking classified information about U.S. national security activities that were later publicly disclosed by WikiLeaks.

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/defense/army/314998-army-manning-to-lose-transgender-benefits

[bravenak]

1. They need to make an exception

[cstanleytech]

5. Sorry bravenak but I disagree as the penalty is meant to discourage people from committing major

infractions under military law and its applied almost universally when someone is dishonorable discharged.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/character_of_discharge.asp

[metroins]

6. I agree with you

Manning can figure out how to pay for it like everybody else.

I'm not a huge can of the commute.

[leftynyc]

44. Me neither

I don't see any reason US taxpayers should pay for her transition. There are a lot of people FAR more worthy of getting help from me.

[bravenak]

21. I think she could die

[cstanleytech]

25. Possible but the military is unlikely to make an exception for Manning and

even if they tried dollars to donuts the Republicans in Congress would pull the same shit they pulled with Obama over Gitmo and forbid the military from spending any federal money for Manning.

[bravenak]

26. Lord, I know

They are brutal, even to themselves.

[SticksnStones]

39. Fan of your posts Bravenak...but respectfully, die of what?

[bravenak]

40. People are cruel

[tinrobot]

42. ...how do VA benefits prevent such cruelty?

Perhaps she needs police protection instead.

[bravenak]

43. Ease of transition

They were going to pay. Now she needs money. I'm sure she will get it, people are probably already fundraising.

[cstanleytech]

66. Ya but the loss of VA benefits isnt being done to Manning exclusively its standard for everyone

that gets a dishonorable discharge, sucks but it is what it is.

[bravenak]

67. I know. I feel sad for her, but honestly, being free is enough

[MADem]

8. No, they don't-- and they won't.

She's getting out 28 years early, and when you are dishonorably discharged, that's it--you get no benefits. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

That's probably what this delay is about between the commutation announcement and the release date--it gives her time to make arrangements to continue her care.

GoFundMe is probably a good start--or maybe she can get a book/television/movie deal to give her enough money to afford to continue this treatment without issue and maybe even acclerate the pace if that is what she wants. She does have a "support team" that will no doubt help her with some of that stuff.

[cstanleytech]

16. I would go with a GoFund me controlled by a trust fund option personally

especially if Manning still has to pay any monetary penalty out of pocket for the conviction.

[bravenak]

22. You might be right

I hate the idea of being freed but still locked up. I know enough could be raised.

[Crash2Parties]

32. I would say she could move to California & be covered, but I'm not so sure how long that will last.

Given the future of Obamacare. Still, I almost wonder if Gov. Brown intends to start up a state single payer system - the revised budget calculation might almost hint at such.

[xxqqqzme]

61. The legislature passed single payer once

Arnold gropenator vetoed it.

[Drahthaardogs]

33. Absolutely not!

Dishonorable discharge still applies.

[msanthrope]

47. I disagree....millions of dollars were raised in her name, it's well past time

for an accounting of those dollars.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023505389#post51

I noted here that Courage to Resist was using the money it raised rather interestingly.

[MADem]

52. Wow--that is incredibly DISGRACEFUL!

The bullshit you were given about needing to "advertise" Manning's plight is just utter garbage--every paper in the world was covering that story around the clock, and the slant of the story matched the slant of the media outlet.

PT Barnum was right--there's one born every minute...

[msanthrope]

56. Let us never forget the BS that self-proclaimed "highly respected" DUers

tried to tell us.....

Note that those DUers are no longer with us.

[MADem]

57. I swear, some folks just are easily led.

When they're led by Moscow trolls, we got trouble!

[msanthrope]

59. Actually, watching the parade of lemmings over to JPR, and their defense of the

use of the c-word to describe HRC was amusing. We lost so many "highly respected" folks....sigh.

[MADem]

70. I'm liking the place much better, nowadays! nt

[Blue_Tires]

64. thank you... like I said, a mountain of cash

from all those fundraisers should already be waiting for her... And if it isn't then she should be asking some tough questions...

[Yo_Mama]

51. Why should they? Manning is getting off very easily for a very serious crime.

It is unreasonable for us to then extend military benefits.

Chelsea Manning will go back to being a civilian and a free civilian this year. That's very merciful indeed.

[cstanleytech]

2. Sounds like Manning should consider starting up a GoFund me or something like that pizza place did.

[lapucelle]

3. Does Obama have the power to change the terms of the discharge?

[cstanleytech]

7. At a guess I suspect the only way it could have been done would have been with a pardon

which Obama didnt grant and I dont think he is likely to redo it and change it to a pardon at the last minute just to preserve Mannings benefits.

[nycbos]

28. Nor should he.

[MADem]

15. Not now. He's not going to backtrack, and

frankly, he could have left her in prison for a few more years. He probably didn't because he didn't want her getting in trouble and Trump's minions finding reasons for them to extend her sentence for infractions.

Her sentence is commuted, it's not a pardon and it shouldn't be. She did the crime and it's a biggie. She didn't use her chain of command or avail herself of internal methodologies. The sentence was too long, but the discharge characterization was appropriate.

I think she's lucky that she got this--I suspect it's as much about poking Putin and Assange (and Trump, by extension) as it is a compassionate reprieve for someone who has mental health issues and probably needs a good deal of therapy, more than the military prison system can effectively provide (aside from the reassignment surgery and all that goes with that).

[yeoman6987]

4. I was thinking about that yesterday

That's why I asked if she got it done. Dishonorable discharges gives.zero benefits. The only way for this to change is president obama has to give full pardon. I doubt he will. Hopefully the transgender community helps her.

[MADem]

10. All she has to do is sell her story to a producer and she's RICH.

The inside story, consultant on the film--she'll be farting through silk for the rest of her life.

A book deal will bring in some scratch, too, though she'd need to cough up details that other books haven't covered--a lot of childhood stuff, e.g. and personal details that biographers didn't get.

[cstanleytech]

12. Wouldnt that depend on if there was no monetary penalty attached that Manning has to still pay

or would the commutation have erased that?

[MADem]

17. I'm not aware of any fine beyond pay and rank forfeiture, though I'll admit that I didn't follow

the punishment phase closely.

[yeoman6987]

13. Oh wow. You are brilliant! So true.

[dsc]

18. Is there a federal son of sam law?

If so, then she can't profit from her crime.

[cstanleytech]

19. Yes or atleast this is what I found via google just now

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96479

Edited: Mind you there might have been a more recent ruling on it but I am not aware of it.

[MADem]

30. I think the devil is in the details. I am looking at the law and there seems to be wiggle room.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/son-of-sam-statutes-federal-and-state-summary/

Citation: 18 U.S.C.S. § 3681 (Lexis 2000)
History: Enacted in 1984.
TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART II. CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 232A. SPECIAL FORFEITURE OF COLLATERAL PROFITS OF CRIME
18 USCS § 3681 (2000)
§ 3681. Order of special forfeiture
(a) Upon the motion of the United States attorney made at any time after conviction of a defendant for an offense under section 794 of this title or for an offense against the United States resulting in physical harm to an individual, and after notice to any interested party, the court shall, if the court determines that the interest of justice or an order of restitution under this title so requires, order such defendant to forfeit all or any part of proceeds received or to be received by that defendant, or a transferee of that defendant, from a contract relating to a depiction of such crime in a movie, book, newspaper, magazine, radio or television production, or live entertainment of any kind, or an expression of that defendant’s thoughts, opinions, or emotions regarding such crime.

The state statutes often talk about murder victims. NH doesn't have one.


The contract could be written in such a way that Manning is only to provide details of early life, up to the commission of the crime (that information is a matter of public record anyway--she had to come clean as part of the plea deal) and then discuss life in prison. There would be no collaboration with regard to commission of the crime.

Others have done it, recently, too--isn't ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK a memoir of sorts?
And this guy was a convicted hacker, did five years in prison, and he's written quite a few books, including an auto-bio:
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wires-Adventures-Worlds-Wanted/dp/0316037729

[bravenak]

24. I forgot about that

[vrguy]

9. You win...

We don't give a fuck we will give her $60k through go fund me for the rest of her life....I am tired Republicans and Conservatives..."we take care of our own"

[hrmjustin]

11. That is procedure but my sense is people will step up for her. I hope!

[FreeState]

14. We need Universal Healthcare reason #5683 n/t

[cstanleytech]

20. They would probably classify it as "elective" surgery *sigh*

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

23. I'm genuinely disgusted at how many here seem to think

Chelsea Manning deserved the horrific treatment and totally unwarrented lengthy sentence she received. Her whistle-blowing was desperately needed, to bring to light the excesses of our government and military. She should NEVER have been put on trial, and should NEVER have been subject to the illegal treatment she's gotten.

Losing her military healthcare benefits isn't really the issue.

Of course, if we had a rational health care system as exists in the rest of the first world this wouldn't be an issue at all. Alas, this country is third world at best in its health care, and if Republicans get their way we'll be pioneering a fourth world standard.

[nycbos]

27. Ah you mean her work with a traitor hiding in Russia and Assange a rapist?

Her "whistleblowing" is one of the things that lead to the Orangeman has POTUS.

[alarimer]

65. Bullshit.

Ignorant assholes voted for Trump.

Personally, I am grateful for the war crimes revealed by Manning. The absolute inhuman crimes done in our name.

[cstanleytech]

29. If by treatment you mean the conviction? It was warranted. The sentence though? Not so sure.

I mean I could see 5 to 10 years max but the 30+ one Manning got seemed excessive to me but *shrug* thats only my opinion.

[MADem]

31. I was thinking 10 to 15, myself. I too was surprised at the length of the sentence, but I suspect

the fact that Manning punched (she was still identifying as male, in public, anyway, at the time) a female supervisor and caused her some degree of injury (I mean, you just don't DO that) in the SCIF didn't help at all. There were a lot of outbursts and "good order and discipline" issues that were raised in those hearings, too.

The military was in the throes of a post-Iraq drawdown, too. During wartime, everyone's uniform looks like shit, grooming standards are relaxed, people blow off stupid rules/regs and just try to get the job done as best one can. When drawdowns happen, the Services tend to start crossing T's and dotting i's, and getting really farty about rules/regs (using physical fitness or successful completion of "professional training" enhancements as "force shapers" is a prime example) so I'm guessing a lot of attention was focused on that trial and the judgment got a bit harsher than usual, because that's just how drawdowns roll.

[cstanleytech]

38. I was thinking 5 to 10 because while it did break the law and it did damage some of the

relations with other nations it wasnt as severe in comparison to what Snowden did such as providing details over efforts at gathering intelligence in other countries.

[OKNancy]

45. The female she punched is pretty upset about this

I'm not sure she is fearful, but I will say she is mad. Just a little more info too... Manning sent her dick pics and loved to wave his penis around and expose himself to her.

[MADem]

48. Now that's a person who never should have been accessed into the Armed Forces.

That's clearly not mendacity alone, it's serious mental illness. People who are societally adjusted just don't do shit like that.

When the military is in "anyone will do" mode, they enlist people who are misfits and poor adapters--Manning was one of these on steroids, it would seem.

Unless Manning can get some major mental health support in her post-prison life, I would not be surprised if she ends her days at her own hand. She is clearly in a personal hell, and it's not all down to being imprisoned, either.

[OKNancy]

49. Right and this is what this supervisor recommended

She recommended that Manning not be deployed. The people over her overruled her and sent Manning to Iraq.
Those supervisors were punished, but not in the legal system.

[MADem]

53. That's the Services for you.

I have friends who were at "that" Tailhook, but were never anywhere near the drunken shenanigans.

This was proven, too...but their careers still took a hit. So high, and no higher.

You don't have to be guilty of anything, you just have to have the stink on you. It's the way of the organization. There are some who get away with, if not murder, a bit of sketchiness, but they're few/far between. Colin Powell comes to mind--he's lucky he didn't get any Calley stink on him when he fired off a form response with no investigation to a grunt griping about the My Lai massacre. Give a field grade officer By Direction authority and that's what you get I guess. He also avoided getting any Iran Contra stank on him, too--what a lucky man he was!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. She revealed some of the genuine horrors going on in our military.

AND she was entrapped in the first place.

Whistleblowers deserve protection. They blow the whistle on excesses and violations of the law. Which is exactly what Manning did.

She should have been honored and showered with flowers and given a parade. Instead, she got dumped in a cell and was treated in a way we used to condemn other countries for.

I'll admit I've been astonished ever since the early 1970s that whistle blowers still come forward, since almost invariably they are treated like pariahs and prosecuted, when they should be given respect and admiration for revealing the dark underbelly.

Chelsea Manning is a hero in my book.

Oh, and not a single person died because of her revelations. On the other hand, those who outed Valerie Plame have apparently been responsible for more than one death. But did a single of them face prosecution?

The hypocrisy is stunning.

[cstanleytech]

36. And had Manning only stolen and released that specific information I would agree with you that

the 6 years Manning has spent in prison was to extreme however Manning did not limit it to that not to mention Manning if I recall correctly had legal options of reporting any crimes to the Inspector General or to a member of Congress neither of which options were as far as I am aware were undertaken.
But you know what? Even if Manning didnt try those two options I could overlook it provided the information Manning released had been limited to as I said only the alleged crimes being covered up but a person cannot use a whistleblower claim to reveal information and then keep on revealing everything they can get their hands on.
For example, say someone stole the information from a CEO that the company was dumping chemicals illegally? Now its great to leak the information about the dumping as thats a crime but its not great if they also stole the sex movies the CEO made with his wife in the privacy of their own home and then made copies and shared them others, thats not the act of a whistleblower.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. You are not making much sense.

Chelsea Manning revealed crimes that our military was cheerfully perpetrating. Are you suggesting that those things should have gone unmentioned? I'm completely sick and tired of our military and secret whatever getting away with crimes against humanity. There was a time when this country could really stand against such things, but that time is long gone. So long as good people remain silent, crimes continue to occur.

And more to the point, NO ONE was harmed by Manning's revelations. Unlike the outing of Valerie Plame. Her contacts didn't fare so well, but those who outed her were shrugged off.

This country long considered itself a shining beacon of good behavior, and for a long time that was true. Not so much recently. We've incarcerated people without cause. We've tortured. We've kept people in prison for years without justification. And we still try to pretend that we're some shining beacon of goodness.

Your confused example about sex movies makes no sense whatsoever. Chelsea Manning simply reported crimes.

The scary thing about the Obama administration has been how vigorously it has prosecuted whistle blowing, as if whistle blowing is always a bad thing. Heck, without whistle blowing Richard Nixon would have served out two full terms and retired with honors and dignity. Think very hard about the kind of President he really was, and what the entire Watergate investigation revealed, before you condemn Chelsea Manning. And if you continue to condemn her, you're an idiot with no real understanding of history.

[MADem]

50. She did not whistleblow. She "data dumped" and didn't even curate what she released.

Were she not terribly mentally ill she'd probably do the full stretch in jail.

Also, I think Obama's doing a little nose tweaking of the "Assange is a hero because he fucked the DNC" crowd, so Manning is benefitting from the election results in a backhanded way.

[Yo_Mama]

54. Not a whistleblower, not even close. Entirely different.

If the information stolen/released were confined to an issue or a particular issue, if might qualify as whistle-blowing, even though illegal (the available routes were not used).

Stealing hundreds of thousands of classified documents and releasing them to the world, most of the contents of which you don't even know, is a completely different act. Completely.

Manning has psychological issues not at all confined to gender dysphoria, and I presume those were exploited to get access to all that information. And the military put a completely unqualified individual in contact with that information. There is a lot of blame to go around.

But to call this "whistle-blowing" is a gross insult to all the legitimate whistle-blowers out there.

[Sunlei]

34. I'd chipin a hand but I think she will have very good book/movie deals. Get a good lawyer Chelsea,

they'll make a great deal for you & you're going to be fine.

[cstanleytech]

37. Question is will Manning be allowed to under the plea deal?

Not to mention Manning might run afoul of some of the other laws over classified information and be prevented from writing anything and it wouldnt be the first time the governments blocked an author due to allegations that classified information might be revealed.

[msanthrope]

46. Certain entities pushed on this board by self-styled "highly respected" DUers

managed to raise millions on Manning's back.

Time for an accounting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023505389#post51

[Oneironaut]

68. This is why I stopped donating all together.

The majority of my past donations probably went to some CEO who shot it up his nose. I stopped when someone at one of the charities I donated to bought themselves lunch with my debit card.

[matt819]

55. Why is the army even commenting on this?

Are we supposed to believe that she'd be better off spending more than 3 decades more in prison.

Army: Just shut the fuck up.

[Baconator]

58. There's no secret...

Why would they stay silent on something that is obvious to anyone with even a passing knowledge of military law and regulations?

[matt819]

60. Because it's just not necessary

Sure, everyone knows it, including Manning. But it just seems so damned superfluous and nasty. But, hey, could be just me.

[Baconator]

62. It's like if the media asked if Manning would retain GI Bill benefits as a dishonorable discharge...

It's a simple no.

Refusal to answer just makes things murkier and gives the appearance of shenanigans.

[Blue_Tires]

63. So what does Manning want, the freedom or the benefits?

And am I supposed to believe Manning's global cause celebre status isn't going to set her up for life financially after getting out??