Marine Le Pen in Lebanon row after refusing to wear headscarf

[SunSeeker]

Source: CNN

France's Marine Le Pen canceled a meeting with Lebanon's Grand Mufti Tuesday after refusing to wear a headscarf.

The far-right presidential candidate is on a two-day tour of Lebanon where she is courting Franco-Lebanese votes ahead of the first round of French elections on April 23.

Le Pen told reporters that she was surprised by the requirement. But a spokesman for the Grand Mufti said Le Pen had been informed of the need to wear a head covering before the meeting.
...
Shortly after the incident, Florian Philippot, the vice president of Le Pen's Front National Party tweeted: "In Lebanon, Marine refuses to wear the veil. A beautiful message of freedom and emancipation sent to women in France and the world!"

Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/02/21/europe/marine-le-pen-headscarf-lebanon-grand-mufti/index.html

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I hope no one is underestimating Le Pen.

[geek tragedy]

1. very shrewd political move, it will be very hard to find a legitimate reason

to criticize her for refusing to submit to this requirement

[SunSeeker]

2. Yep. nt

[Hortensis]

14. I can. She's pandering to bigots in France by making

a display of disrespect toward her host nation. Villainizers are always downright proud and delighted for excuses to discard even the most basic good manners toward their targets, sure that none are deserved. And, yes, all these conservatives will pretend it's really just about women's equality, hyenas whistling and howling and whistling to the skies.

Despicable woman. She knows her debased base.

[geek tragedy]

16. Did you condemn Michelle Obama for a "display of disrespect" towards Saudi Arabia?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/27/michelle-obama-forgoes-a-headscarf-and-sparks-a-backlash-in-saudi-arabia/

No woman, anywhere should be required, or expected, to comply with misogynistic cultural practices.

In the case of my wife and myself, the need to comply with that kind of backwards misogyny simply makes the place a "no go zone."

Also, do you think Muslim visitors to France are guilty of a "display of disrespect" by wearing head scarves?

[onenote]

18. Apples to oranges comparison

Michelle Obama was meeting with Saudi political leaders, not religious leaders. And foreign women are not required to wear head covering in Saudi Arabia.

On the other hand, when meeting with religious leaders (which is what the Grand Mufti of Lebanon is), respecting the religious traditions of the host faith is appropriate. Which is why, for example, Michelle Obama, while not a Catholic, wore a head covering when she met with the Pope in the Vatican. http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Pope+Meets+President+Obama+794Zsw3rdfYl.jpg

By the way, I can find a number of pictures of Obama and Biden wearing yarmulkes. Should we have criticized them for doing so?

[geek tragedy]

19. Le Pen wasn't required to wear a head scarf when meeting with the Grand Imam in Egypt

And Angela Merkel didn't wear one when meeting with the Pope.



Some religious customs are shown too much respect.

[onenote]

22. It depends on the setting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/us/politics/what-to-wear-michelle-obama-is-steeped-in-protocol.html?_r=0

I might feel differently about this if I wasn't 100 percent convinced that Le Pen's motivation was simply to demonstrate to her hate filled followers back home that Islam is not due any respect.

[Hortensis]

20. Well explained, Onenote. "Why we should be scared of Marine Le Pen's

Front National": It has repackaged some of the most destructive and sweetly persuasive ideas of the hard right – xenophobia, protectionism, authoritarianism – into a seemingly modern programme for office. The Independent

You know, Geek, nationalist fascist-leaning movements, all with very strong components of racial and/or religious hostility, are gathering energy in nations around the planet. This woman is leading one that, if it takes over France, could being the collapse of Europe into a very dark and bloody future.

We all need to watch for the true motivations behind political actions so that we do not inadvertently find ourselves supporting something very bad.

[geek tragedy]

25. Le Pen is appalling, but she picked a very smart battle here.

It's not tenable--especially within France--to scold a woman for not putting a head scarf on.

[Hortensis]

30. Yes, but not that smart. Not for those who know what

she is and understand what's she's up to.

It's about as "clever" for her to use women's rights as an excuse to stir up her bigoted followers against those very women as it is for trumpstie to pretend protection of women's vaginas is why he's leading a racist, Christian nationalist movement against Muslims and Hispanics.

[geek tragedy]

31. I dunno, she had other campaign appearances in Lebanon, which

isn't a targeted act of appealing to anti-Muslim bigots. She's more clever than her dad.

[meadowlander]

35. Yes, but

I think in France it is illegal to wear the hijab in some circumstances (e.g. for civil servants).

I support her choice not to wear a headscarf just because a misogynistic culture demands it, but I don't support her opinion that she can legislate what other people choose to wear.

[Cha]

24. Thank you for that, onenote.. big difference.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. And yet her reason is not noble, it is based in hate.

[geek tragedy]

28. it's certainly based in cynical politics.

France is militantly secular, so refusing to wear a head scarf there is a surefire way to garner votes.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. I think we are on a fast track to worldwide racism, anti semitism and war.

[geek tragedy]

32. we've already been there for the past few centuries. nt

[nycbos]

3. Nor should she

We all praised Michelle for not wearing a headscarf in Saudi Arabia.


I despise Le Pen and her parties racist, antisemitic, and anti immigrant politics. However I don't think women should be forced adhere to a medieval dress code no matter how vile the person in question might be.



And you are right no one should underestimate her.

[SunSeeker]

5. I agree. nt

[JudyM]

21. There are a few men in our Congress who should cover their whole faces. Just sayin.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. Her reasons though are purely hate. She is a con, it is the only reason they do anything

[Ligyron]

4. That whole religion and it's society treat women as the property of men

and suppress any attempt to act independently.

I don't like RW, racists or Le Pen but good for her on this one. No need to be sensitive or understanding to misogyny.

[muntrv]

6. ...or overestimating France. One of my favorite posts here regarding 2016 election is

"We didn't underestimate Trump. We overestimated America."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512665726

[packman]

8. Good for her

[bravenak]

9. She's a phony. She'd probably want to wear her shoes in the mosque too.

[msanthrope]

12. Indeed, she would. And I have no problem with that.

I fault the people who were to receive her... The fact is is that hospitality reigns over every other value of dress and modesty... If Le Pen wanted to be a boor....then let her.

[hollowdweller]

10. Never got the whole headscarf thing

I mean I can understand Muslims wanting to do it as a sign of their religious identity, but I cannot understand why it should be mandatory for Muslims or non Muslims.

I can understand why "thou shalt not kill" also extends to laws against manslaughter.

However if religious taboos or actions are mandated, then they aren't performed out of true faith or devotion, only out of compulsion. To be worthy of it's salt a religion should
have it's followers following it's rules because it makes their lives better or makes them a better person, not because of punishment or condemnation.

[matt819]

11. Hmmmmm

I lived in a Muslim country for a few years. At the time, it was considered a measure of respect for our host country to dress conservatively and, if not wear a headscarf, then at least to have one you could shift around now and again to make it appear that you at least had one ready to go at an instant.

You know something? Just about every woman I knew there, including my wife, did this. Part of it was respect. Part of it was common sense. This was the early 1990s. Notwithstanding the Iranian revolution a little over a decade earlier and attacks against western officials, usually in the Middle East, terrorist attacks hadn't yet risen to the levels they're at now, and anti-Western sentiment was directed more on a macro level, as in the US is the great satan, rather than a micro level, as in let's stone the western woman without a headscarf.

In a sense, it was no different than a non-Jew wearing a yarmulke in the synagogue and any number of other respectful gestures toward other religions, whatever those may be.

I understand how we came to be where we are today, thanks Islamic extremism on the one hand and Christian extremism/western nationalism on the other. What's unfortunate, of course, is that no one - Muslim or Christian - is prepared to take the first step toward returning to the equilibrium, however uneasy, that existed only a few short years ago, without seeming to betray entire cultures or nations.

[geek tragedy]

13. at the same time, it's also perfectly legit for people-esp women, LGBT etc--to refuse to visit

places where they'll be expected/required to embrace elements of patriarchal hierarchy and oppression.

A big additional factor is the fact that Islam is no longer seen as a foreign issue for Europeans but rather as a domestic force as well. And there's a lot of people with one foot on the "resist religious oppression and religious nationalism" but with the other foot in "we're not going to go backwards on social equality for women and GLBT citizens."

[SunSeeker]

15. Exactly. Progressives must fight for freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.

That is what the first clause of the First Amendment is all about. We must not cede this issue to grandstanding right wingers like Le Pen.

[mainer]

17. Whenever I travel in conservative Muslim countries, I wear a headscarf.

I too consider it a gesture of respect.
Not necessary in places like Egypt or Turkey, but while I was in Libya -- definitely.

[meadowlander]

36. Some beliefs are not worthy of respect.

The belief in 2017 that women need to cover their heads either because they are unclean, unworthy or will incite lustful thoughts being a prime example.

There is no "equilibrium" to be found with people who think women are worth less or should have fewer rights than men or should be ashamed of their bodies. They are wrong. And they need to join the 21st century.

[Coventina]

23. My response is: what is the cultural norm of Lebanon?

The headscarf is about culture, not religion.
That being said, I personally disapprove of it as I see it as plain ole misogyny.

Having said that, if I were traveling to a country where it was the cultural norm, I would comply with such norm. After all, it is just good manners to adhere to custom.

If just some random religious figure requires it of me then he can go suck wind.

[DonCoquixote]

33. question

Lebanon has a lot of Catholics, are they expected to wear the headscarf?

[Coventina]

34. This is why I pose the question. I know there are many Christians in Lebanon.

However, it is not that long in the past that conservative Catholic women wore headscarves.

It was actually required in Spain during Franco's regime.

So, I don't know what the dominant cultural norm is in Lebanon now. No idea.

I'm just saying, if it is COMMON to see uncovered women in Lebanon, then the man who required Le Pen to appear in front of him with a headscarf is full of shit.

Having said that, though, Le Pen is also full of shit, but I will defend her on this (and only this, as far as I know) issue.

[eissa]

37. Good for her

And how awful that we have forfeited this issue of a woman's right not to abide by misogynist religious edicts to people like LePen. Instead, we get stuck with Sharia apologists like that loon Linda Sarsour. This may have been a stunt on LePen's part, and if it was, well played.

[razorman03038]

38. Since the meeting was held in Lebanon, she might have done well

to wear the scarf, to honor their customs. But, if it was in France, and they insisted she wear it, then "screw them".