Alleged Colorado gunman's doctor reached police before rampage: ABC

[maddezmom]

Last edited Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - The psychiatrist who treated suspected movie-theater shooter James Holmes contacted a University of Colorado police officer to express concerns about Holmes's behavior several weeks before his alleged rampage, ABC News reported, citing unnamed sources.

The sources did not know what the officer approached by Dr. Lynne Fenton did with the information she passed along, ABC said in a report Monday on its website.

They said, however, that the officer was recently interviewed, with an attorney present, by the Aurora, Colorado, Police Department as a part of the investigation of the July 20 shooting that left 12 people dead and 58 wounded.

The sources said Fenton would have had to have serious concerns to break confidentiality with her patient to contact the police officer or others, the network said.

Holmes, 24, a former University of Colorado graduate student, had said he planned to drop out of school nearly six weeks before the shooting in an Aurora theater.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-usa-shooting-denver-psychiatrist-idUSBRE8760JC20120807

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James Holmes psychiatrist notified campus police of concerns before Aurora shooting

¬snip¬

Multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell 7News that in first 10 days of June, Dr. Lynne Fenton was so concerned that Holmes, whom she was treating, might be a threat to others that she called the university's Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment, or BETA, team. She also contacted the campus police department trying to find out if Holmes had a criminal history.

In doing so, sources say, Dr. Fenton had to take the serious step of revealing Holmes’ name to the police for the purpose of trying to ensure the protection of others.

Sources familiar with the investigation say after her initial call to the campus police, Dr. Fenton never filled out any paperwork that would cause the police to detain or hold Holmes.

¬snip¬
Sources say Dr. Fenton was told Holmes did not have a criminal record. And sources say Dr. Fenton did not place Holmes on a hold, but it is unclear whether she took any other steps to make sure Holmes was evaluated.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/james-holmes-psychiatrist-notified-campus-police-of-concerns-before-aurora-shooting#ixzz22sFwPvR4

[slackmaster]

1. No doubt the police dismissed her by saying something like "Your concern is noted."

[spin]

3. Obviously mixing firearms with those who suffer with severe mental issues ...

is a serious problem in our nation. It is also obvious that someone once again dropped the ball and a tragedy resulted.

Do you have any suggestions on how we might address this problem and still protect individual rights?

[slackmaster]

4. I have no solution to the problem of violent psychotics who haven't been adjudicated as mentally...

...incompetent.

There are a whole lot of people out there who have mental illnesses. Some have been formally diagnosed, I suspect most have not been and may never be. But until a person has been officially found by a court of law to be mentally incompetent, those people all enjoy the same set of rights as do the rest of us.

No matter what laws and legal processes are in place, no matter how much arbitrary power we give to police and to mental health professionals, an occasional whack job is going to slip through the cracks. Our system of government is in a constant state of checking and balancing government authority vs. individual liberty.

I think the best we can do is all try to look out for one another. If you see someone who you think might be having a mental health problem, do whatever you can to help. But ultimately people have the right to refuse treatment.

[RobinA]

8. Thank You

Not everything that happens is because "somebody dropped the ball." People have rights in this country, and usually we prefer to err on the side of giving people rights rather than locking them up just in case. Of course, then when they do something, "Sombody dropped the ball," by not intervening "just in case."

[spin]

32. That's unfortunately a fair and realistic appraisal of the situation. (n/t)

[Dont call me Shirley]

30. Kinda like PennSt's traetment of Sandusky, look the other way folks.....

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. It's like the FBI analyst prior to 9/11. Info was there, but what happened to it?

[Happyhippychick]

5. I'm a shrink. The standard for breaking patient confidentiality is "imminent danger" and it should

NEVER be shrugged off. We only report if the patient has told us a clear plan, a timeframe, and serious intent to harm. It's called a Tarasoff warning.

[slackmaster]

6. Thank you for contributing to this important discussion.

After a terrible encounter with a Borderline Personality Disorder victim who ultimately took her own life earlier this year, I have a much greater appreciation for your profession.

[Happyhippychick]

10. Oh my, you have my sympathies!

What a sad and scary thing.

[byeya]

11. I think based on the warning and your explanation of what that warning entails,

the police could have gotten a magistrate to issue a search warrant of the shooter's home and person. I think that there is probable cause to believe a crime has been planned and the police can act along these lines.

[LittleGirl]

12. Thanks and that was my thought

If the physician contacted the police, then I'm sure they were afraid of what this person was capable of doing.

[bobthedrummer]

14. What is/are your theoretical orientation(s), how long have you practiced, what licences do you have?

on edit Here in Wisconsin the latest mass murder shooter was once active in PSY-OPS, a Col. Michael AQUINO realized US Army specialty.

[PADemD]

15. If she thought he was a danger to others, why didn't she have him committed?

[slackmaster]

16. Getting someone committed permanently is very, very difficult (and it should be)

I have some experience in this - Getting a person committed to a psychiatric institution (at least in my state) is even harder than getting an elderly parent or other person who has dementia (e.g. from Alzheimer's disease) declared mentally incompetent so that you can take over his or her financial decisions. A lone psychologist or psychiatrist simply doesn't have the power to do that.

Here in California we have a well-known law called Welfare and Institutions Code Section 5150, which allows a wide range of law enforcement people and medical professionals to have a person taken into a psych hospital involuntarily for 72 hours. That's how I handled my late friend's first suicide attempt. I called 911. Two San Diego PD officers and a psychiatric nurse showed up pretty quickly. They interviewed my friend and examined what appeared to all of us to be a real suicide note. They took her to a county lock-down hospital for observation.

It took my friend almost 10 days to talk her way out of the hospital by convincing a Superior Court judge that her condition didn't pose a threat to herself or anyone else.

She was released with a prescription, a free cell phone, a bunch of literature, and an appointment with a psychiatrist for about three weeks later.

She skipped the psychiatrist's appointment. The psychiatrist's office called the PD to do a welfare check on her. They found her home. She told them she was fine. There was nothing the police could do at that point. She had exercised her right to refuse treatment.

Three weeks later, she was dead.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

19. Could you elaborate?

I know this wasn't your patient and all that, and I suppose the "serious intent" is always going to be a professional judgement call.

But how specific must a patient be before you'd feel the need to contact the authorities -- assuming that in your professional opinion, the patient had the intent.

[Happyhippychick]

22. Excellent question. I can elaborate.

This is a highly debatable point because it is an ethics question and there is no right or wrong answer to ethics.

Therapists can breach confidentiality for three reasons: 1) if the person is a threat to their own safety (suicidal), 2) if the person has expressed an intent to harm a third party, and 3) if the person discusses known abuse of a child or elder. We are looking at number 2.

The "intention to harm" is not clear cut. In my own practice I would apply the following standards: 1) does the person have a clear cut plan of action to harm?; 2) does the person have a named victim that he/she intends to harm?. In this case the therapist did not have the name of a person but it was apparent that she was concerned that her patient could commit a random act of violence.

For the record I don't work with people who are disturbed to this extent so I have never had to deal with this, it's hard to know what I would do in hindsight. It's obvious that the psychiatrist was very concerned and the psychiatrist also has the legal liability dropped in her lap so she is probably very thankful that she fulfilled the standards that the profession sets forth. I have reported many, many child molesters in my day and will continue to do so each and every time I am told about one. I have had patients put in hospitals when, in my opinion, they are suicidal. I haven't had to deal with a third party threat yet but I would like to believe that I would do exactly as I have done in the past and take it very seriously.

There is no standard as to whom to report when a third party threat hasn't been named, in other words if my patient threatens Mary Smith then it is my duty to inform Mary Smith. In this case the psychiatrist did not have a specific person to warn so she did the very best she could.

[DallasNE]

25. The Tarasoff Warning

Constantly stresses an "identifiable victim" and, increasingly, it is only the general public that is at risk. Does the warning need to be updated to clarify the wider danger present today.

Also, it calls for notifying police under certain conditions. Here the University seemed more interested in containment to the on-campus risk threat. Were University policies allowed to override the Tarasoff Warning by limiting the scope to the campus rather than the larger community? Aurora police were never contacted, only campus police.

[Happyhippychick]

27. I talked about the identifiable victim thing in an earlier response

I pointed out that this psychiatrist went beyond the legal and ethical requirement.

The whole campus police thing is a mystery to me, look how it kept Sandusky out of jail for so long. It's a major, major issue.

Unfortunately not all tragedies are preventable. I don't think Tarasoff should be revised, I think ammo sales and gun control need to be implemented.

[DallasNE]

28. I Completely Agree Regarding The Psychiatrist

And I later came across your response on the identifiable victim, so thanks. Since notifying police is already part of Tarasoff I now concur that no revision is necessary. Glad to see you picking up on my point about campus police being a major issue (along with University administration that contain their concern to on campus issues and washed their hands when Holmes dropped out of school).

[Happyhippychick]

31. And on a personal note...

Campus police were horrible for me when I was being stalked on a college campus (I was a college student at the time) and they did NOTHING to help me, nor did they do a thing to help the many women who were sexually assaulted, harrassed, and stalked while on campus. This was in the early 1980's, it's unbelievable that it goes on to this day. A good friend of mine did a whole news story for the student paper about it and he wasn't allowed to run it since it was too controversial.

[kestrel91316]

7. I'm not surprised. Here in Los Angeles, LAPD is very open about how

they are not here to PREVENT violence - they just respond to it.

[RobinA]

9. Liberals

generally frown on violence prevention and all it entails. Just sayin'. You can't have it both ways.

[pasto76]

13. disagree. lefties want prevention, conservatives are all about "reacting"

its one of the points that differentiates this democrat from a conservative

[RobinA]

29. Sooo....

The liberal position is that it's OK to search somebody's car if he looks like he might be one of them thar drug dealers? Liberals tend to support stop and frisk? If a 15-year-old commits a serious crime, just throw away the key, because chances are if he's a criminal when he's 15, he'll be MORE of a criminal when he's 25? Not this liberal.

[kestrel91316]

18. It is perfectly feasible to PREVENT violence without trampling all over

everyone's civil rights. LAPD doesn't want to do its job because they PREFER to trample.

[DallasNE]

17. Some Disturbing Trends Emerge

Like Penn State, it is beginning to look like the University of Colorado was more concerned about their public image than for the well-being and safety of the people in the community. The focus simply must change and not just on this campus, but around the nation.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

20. I'm not sure that's the case here...

Penn State was trying to cover up malfeasance by a highly visible member of the football program.

This was just a disturbed graduate student. I can't see the university's administration taking pains to keep this under wraps (at least not before the shooting).

[DallasNE]

23. I Beg To Differ

While the timeline was far more condensed the focus seemed to be on maintaining the good name of the school. The security concern was limited to an on campus risk assessment (covering their butt). When Holmes dropped out of school they simply washed their hands of the case -- in other words, good riddance. But outside officials were never notified and that is the same serious error made by Penn State. Containment doesn't work because the University is not an island by itself so that attitude must change.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

24. Outside officials were notified...

That's the point of the article in the OP. The guy's therpist DID notify civil authorities, but it appears there's no clear protocol for following up on a reported threat of this nature. That's a serious issue, but it's not necessarily the fault of the university.

[DallasNE]

26. Do You Have A Link On That

What I have read indicates that campus police as well as other University groups were notified but not outside officials.

[maddezmom]

21. agreed. University of Colorado reviewing how it handled Dr. Lynne Fenton concerns

Last Updated: 5 hours and 46 minutes ago
By: CNN Wire Staff
The University of Colorado has hired a former U.S. attorney to conduct an independent review into how the school handled the man accused of opening fire inside a crowded movie theater.

Robert Miller, a former U.S. attorney for Colorado, began the review last week.

"The University is doing everything it can to fully cooperate with the criminal investigation. Additionally, we are doing everything we can to understand how the university's systems and processes functioned in this situation. Bob Miller comes to us with a stellar reputation for diligence and integrity. We have given him broad latitude to conduct his review," University of Colorado President Bruce D. Benson said in a statement Friday.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/james-holmes-court-case-university-of-colorado-reviewing-how-it-handled-dr-lynne-fenton-concerns#ixzz22spYELcN