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Jose Garcia

(2,598 posts)
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:11 PM Sep 2017

Valerie Plame tweets story blaming 'America's Jews' for foreign wars

Source: The Hill

Former CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson on Thursday tweeted an article that argued American Jews are pushing for war in the Middle East, specifically with Iran.

The article, titled “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars,” is featured in The Unz Review, an online magazine that bills itself as an “alternative” to the “mainstream media.”

After several minutes of questions from Twitter users who were shocked by her tweet, Wilson doubled down, arguing critics should read the article and “put aside” any biases.

“1) First of all, calm down. Re-tweets don't imply endorsement. Yes, very provocative, but thoughtful. Many neocon hawks ARE Jewish,” Wilson said.

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/351745-valerie-plame-tweets-story-blaming-americas

114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Valerie Plame tweets story blaming 'America's Jews' for foreign wars (Original Post) Jose Garcia Sep 2017 OP
"Re-tweets don't imply endorsement"? Depends on who you ask! nt 7962 Sep 2017 #1
If you don't agree with something that you re-tweet, say you don't onenote Sep 2017 #2
... Lochloosa Sep 2017 #3
"Retweets don't imply endorsement" sarisataka Sep 2017 #4
Bigot. Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #5
All isms matter! IronLionZion Sep 2017 #13
I feel she was referring to American Jews who busterbrown Sep 2017 #27
And if she was? leftynyc Sep 2017 #45
Never fails, does it? Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #48
Poster seems to have leftynyc Sep 2017 #73
She's just like Trump. A racist, bigot. grossproffit Sep 2017 #53
She later accepted that her take on the art. was wrong. She picked out a couple of things... Honeycombe8 Sep 2017 #66
Bullshit excuse. Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #72
I'm French. Therefore, I'm not anti-French. I'm not anti-myself. Honeycombe8 Sep 2017 #81
That's not how that works. Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #108
Good grief! PdxSean Sep 2017 #6
Good explanation underpants Sep 2017 #8
Good explanation? The article title reads "Americas Jews Are Driving Americas Wars." grossproffit Sep 2017 #52
Good that she has now refuted that tweet LeftishBrit Sep 2017 #12
Yeah, and glad she recognized it and admitted it. mountain grammy Sep 2017 #14
Good Grief, indeed! Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #15
Isn't she talking about Netanyahu Supporters..? busterbrown Sep 2017 #23
You're being a Jew is irrelevant. Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #49
Or just netanyahu supporters since they are not all jewish JI7 Sep 2017 #60
That you are leftynyc Sep 2017 #74
Seems to me that she was busterbrown Sep 2017 #110
Except that she was talking about American Jews, not Israeli ones LeftishBrit Sep 2017 #98
yes, she is azureblue Sep 2017 #101
Well said. PdxSean Sep 2017 #43
Whoa. If she made those kind of mistakes as an operative she would have been unveiled... brush Sep 2017 #17
Thank you Ms. Plame-Wilson Achilleaze Sep 2017 #19
Why are so many of these freaks obsessed with Jews? Downtown Hound Sep 2017 #7
She apologized, said she didnt read the whole thing, saw the neocon criticism and Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #9
The title of the story is "Americas Jews Are Driving Americas Wars." she missed nothing. grossproffit Sep 2017 #54
Might have guessed that the original tweet came from Philip Giraldi! LeftishBrit Sep 2017 #10
Many peacenik hippies are Jewish too IronLionZion Sep 2017 #11
It doesn't(many are also critics of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians). Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
There's more truth to the idea that many in Israel want war with Iran but they want vkkv Sep 2017 #16
That doesn't make it appropriate to blame "the Jews", though. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Correct... and many Jews disagree with Israeli leadership... thesquanderer Sep 2017 #26
Well put. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
Just as many Americans disagree with American leadership garybeck Sep 2017 #70
Warning: It's tightrope walking in critiquing the Israeli war mongers without being labeled... brush Sep 2017 #22
Exactly! the nation of Isarael could be another Xtian nation or Hindu or athiest, either way, the vkkv Sep 2017 #24
No, it's not a tightrope. It's actually rather simplistic. LanternWaste Sep 2017 #44
I think you mean it's simple, not simplistic. Demit Sep 2017 #46
Pls clarify what you're saying. brush Sep 2017 #61
The article leftynyc Sep 2017 #75
But the question is, is critiquing warmongers who happen to be Jewish being anti-semitic. brush Sep 2017 #80
Why is bibi or Israel even part of leftynyc Sep 2017 #82
Come on. " Why is being Jewish even referenced at all?" Because as you said, it's in the headline... brush Sep 2017 #83
When the religion of someone leftynyc Sep 2017 #84
That's not it at all. The question is is critiquing a warmonger, who happens to be Jewish,... brush Sep 2017 #85
As long as the argument leftynyc Sep 2017 #86
Come on, the OP references American Jews. You pointed it out already. brush Sep 2017 #87
Like I already said leftynyc Sep 2017 #89
It's not different to me. If the warmongers are Muslim, they are fair game too. brush Sep 2017 #90
You're not getting it leftynyc Sep 2017 #91
I think you're the one not getting it. Criticizing warmongers of any faith or non-faith is fair game brush Sep 2017 #93
The title of the piece in question leftynyc Sep 2017 #94
Pls read the post on the thread I first responded to. I'm definitely not defending anti-semitism. brush Sep 2017 #95
You're defending and making excuses for Plame leftynyc Sep 2017 #96
Again, read the post in the thread I first responded to. It wasn't to the OP. And I wasn't defending brush Sep 2017 #97
LOL - I AM responding to your original post leftynyc Sep 2017 #105
Are you nuts? My first post was to caution that criticizing warmongers who happened to be... brush Sep 2017 #107
Uh - no leftynyc Sep 2017 #109
I was trying to be cute and caught at what? You're reading stuff into this that isn't there. brush Sep 2017 #111
If she and/or Giraldi meant 'Israeli warmongers', why did they say 'America's Jews'? LeftishBrit Sep 2017 #99
My response was to a post in the thread, not to the headlined OP. brush Sep 2017 #102
The article was about American Jews, not Isreali Jews Jose Garcia Sep 2017 #32
Yes, and that is why I began with "There's more truth...." vkkv Sep 2017 #37
Israel and Jews aren't synonymous -nt Bradical79 Sep 2017 #41
Yep, so everyone should stop accusing posters of being anti-Semitic when they're vkkv Sep 2017 #50
Agreed -nt Bradical79 Sep 2017 #106
While factually true, it doesn't register for many! Behind the Aegis Sep 2017 #55
Dear God. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #18
NOTE: She now claims it was "a mistake"..she did not read the entire article.. Stuart G Sep 2017 #25
Seems to me ..she was referring to those American Jews busterbrown Sep 2017 #30
Whatever she said, if she is going disavow what she wrote about a partially read article.. Stuart G Sep 2017 #36
Did she not read the title? oberliner Sep 2017 #63
It is pretty clear by the title of the article what it was about Jose Garcia Sep 2017 #88
All you expect from Ass H*&les is a lot of S%@t! Podkayne K Sep 2017 #28
She was a hero to many....back when she went after Bush Lies.. busterbrown Sep 2017 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author tenderfoot Sep 2017 #31
The original tweet has been given 4 stars William the Drunkard Sep 2017 #34
Is that Smel Gibon? vkkv Sep 2017 #38
Uh...damn. Solly Mack Sep 2017 #35
Once more into the s8&t storm Podkayne K Sep 2017 #39
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #40
She messed up... Mike Nelson Sep 2017 #42
She didn't have to read it all or look at other articles from the same site oberliner Sep 2017 #64
Tone- and history-deaf. WinkyDink Sep 2017 #47
I'm starting to think that stuff on the Internet is unreliable. Dave Starsky Sep 2017 #51
Anything that includes the phrase "America's Jews" and doesn't end with something like grantcart Sep 2017 #56
Plame tweeted this in 2015 . . . MousePlayingDaffodil Sep 2017 #57
Now she is just reminding me of conspiracy theory types JI7 Sep 2017 #62
She's of Jewish descent. So .... But she worked overseas, where goals of hte U S were of primary Honeycombe8 Sep 2017 #67
her father's side is jewish but her mother's is christian and she was raised Christian JI7 Sep 2017 #71
when she used that as justification why she couldn't be anti-Jewish, that should raise a lot of still_one Sep 2017 #76
That doesn't automatically make her pro-Jewish... LeftishBrit Sep 2017 #100
Bill Kristol is jewish and a perfect representation of this beachbum bob Sep 2017 #58
A perfect representation of what? oberliner Sep 2017 #65
a jewish neocon.....and he remains so beachbum bob Sep 2017 #79
His religion has 0 to do with that emulatorloo Sep 2017 #103
goes back to essence of tweet.... beachbum bob Sep 2017 #113
Huh ? That's the same logic trump uses for attacks on hispanics and Muslims JI7 Sep 2017 #68
Does it occur to you that an article titled "America's Jews are Driving America's Wars", just might still_one Sep 2017 #78
This message was self-deleted by its author jg10003 Sep 2017 #59
That some folks are giving her a pass on this is insane oberliner Sep 2017 #69
Yes it is, but it is not surprising to me. This article answers those giving her a pass still_one Sep 2017 #77
linking to nutbar sites because you found found a few words Blue_Tires Sep 2017 #92
This isn't the first time that she has done something like this: Jose Garcia Sep 2017 #104
I'm estranged from much of my family over this issue. Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2017 #112
What does your family think Cold War Spook Sep 2017 #114

onenote

(42,702 posts)
2. If you don't agree with something that you re-tweet, say you don't
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:15 PM
Sep 2017

Otherwise it's an implied endorsement.

That's the standard to which we hold trump and its the standard to which i would hold anyone else.

sarisataka

(18,651 posts)
4. "Retweets don't imply endorsement"
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:18 PM
Sep 2017

'I just happen to believe it'


Of course this isn't new...



*"He's guilty of war"*

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
5. Bigot.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:21 PM
Sep 2017

Just another bigot who will defend her anti-Semitism and have others defend it too. Anti-Semitism: the acceptable bigotry of all sides!

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
27. I feel she was referring to American Jews who
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:56 PM
Sep 2017

stand solidly behind Netanyahu.... He's a horrible human being. As bad as any right winger in Congress..
Yes I'm Jewish.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
45. And if she was?
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 04:11 PM
Sep 2017

The implication being American wars are being fought at the behest of Jews, Israel and Bibi. That makes it legitimate?

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
48. Never fails, does it?
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:00 PM
Sep 2017

People always making excuses for anti-Semites and anti-Semitism by blaming Israel. And of course, the obligatory "I am a Jew/Jewish heritage" as if that mitigates anti-Semitic remarks.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
73. Poster seems to have
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:22 AM
Sep 2017

Scurried away without owning up or explaining their implication. That's also no surprise.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
66. She later accepted that her take on the art. was wrong. She picked out a couple of things...
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 08:55 PM
Sep 2017

that seemed good for discussion, but apparently didn't read the whole thing (she implies).

I THINK she thought it was about the U S's priorities being skewed toward Israel's interests, out of wack w/our other priorities. With neocons being hawkish, esp about Iran. But that's not what the article is about.

She's of Jewish ancestry, so I doubt she's anti-semitic.




Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
72. Bullshit excuse.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 02:20 AM
Sep 2017

She didn't read the whole thing?! Did she bother to read the fucking title of the article?!

"America's Jews are driving America's wars"?


She's of Jewish ancestry, so I doubt she's anti-semitic.


Did you seriously just repeat that?! So, do you also give racists passes if they mutter "some of my best friends are black!"?

Let's put it this way...would you bother to defend, then excuse an apology from the current piece of shit pretending to be our president?! If he had retweeted America's Jews are driving America's wars and then his defenders screeched "he can't be anti-Semitic, his daughter and grandchildren are Jews", would you defend the retweeting and/or the excuse?! Would you?!

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
81. I'm French. Therefore, I'm not anti-French. I'm not anti-myself.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:02 AM
Sep 2017

That's not to say that I think the U S policy should be France-First. Or that I can't be critical of French political choices.

She made a mistake. And yes...she didn't read the title or it meant something else to her.

You know what I thought when I saw the title? I thought it meant that the U S was prioritizing Israel's goals over other goals overseas. I didn't give it deep thought....that was what I thought it meant. Maybe because the title would've been too shocking to mean anything else.

I give people the benefit of the doubt. She said she didn't read the article carefully. I accept that. Yes, I can see how she missed the title. I do it all the time.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
108. That's not how that works.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 01:04 PM
Sep 2017

Ever heard the term "self-loathing"? Gay people can be homophobic. Women can be sexist. And, yes, even supposed Jews (wink, wink) can be anti-Semitic.

Defending her, defending the anti-Semitic nature of the original article is disgusting! If you thought "America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars" meant "the U S was prioritizing Israel's goals over other goals overseas.", then the problem lies with your interpretation and the rationale behind it!

Give her the benefit of the doubt all you want, I will not. It is just another member of the left spouting anti-Semitism then crouching behind "Israel" and "some of my best friends/I am "heritage Jew"".

If the current POS POTUS had posted this NO ONE would be defending it. Would you? I ask again since you seemed to have missed that question.

PdxSean

(574 posts)
6. Good grief!
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:22 PM
Sep 2017
The article notes that she ultimately sobered up:

“OK folks, look, I messed up. I skimmed this piece, zeroed in on the neocon criticism, and shared it without seeing and considering the rest,” Wilson tweeted.

She also said she “missed gross undercurrents” in the post and thanked Twitter users for urging her to take another look at the article’s argument.

“I’m not perfect and make mistakes. This was a doozy. All I can do is admit them, try to be better, and read more thoroughly next time. Ugh,” Wilson added.

Still extremely disappointing, though.

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
52. Good explanation? The article title reads "Americas Jews Are Driving Americas Wars."
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:41 PM
Sep 2017

She's a vile, piece of shit.

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
12. Good that she has now refuted that tweet
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:28 PM
Sep 2017

I must say that a professional agent (or even former one) should really have been more careful in the first place - it's not as though tweets were long dissertations; but at least she's now admitted that the tweet was wrong.

mountain grammy

(26,620 posts)
14. Yeah, and glad she recognized it and admitted it.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:31 PM
Sep 2017

but wow! She's way too smart to do this, but she'll get a pass from me, not that that matters at all.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
15. Good Grief, indeed!
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:33 PM
Sep 2017

She didn't "sober up", she "doubled down". The article's title, “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars,” should have been enough of a deterrent without reading the entire article, and knowing the title, she could have posted a disclaimer before posting anti-Semitic swill, not after getting caught!

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
49. You're being a Jew is irrelevant.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:02 PM
Sep 2017

If she was "talking about Netanyahu Supporters" then she should have said "Jewish Netanyahu Supporters", but she didn't. So why are you trying to make excuses for her lack of judgement and defend something which is obviously anti-Semitic?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
74. That you are
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:28 AM
Sep 2017

Trying to excuse this twit by complaining about bibi supporters is very disturbing. So want if she was? I'm going to ask you a second time since you must have not noticed the first time, how does that excuse blaming Jews, Israel and Bibi for American wars? Your claim that you're Jewish doesn't mean a fucking thing so no need to repeat it again.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
110. Seems to me that she was
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 01:35 PM
Sep 2017

considered a hero back when she went after the Bush Administration.. All of sudden she becomes the enemy because she made a mistake which she apologized for... If you don't consider Netanyahu and all his Ultra Right Wing supporters in Israel and the U.S. a threat to peace, thats up to you.. Please explain your "So want if she was" Can't figure it out..

Couldn't care less about your tough guy rhetoric....I'm wondering what your opinion of the manner in which Israel has attacked and destroyed the Gaza Strip for decades?

Here you go...A good summary of why you shouldn't be so sure of yourself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/09/22/why-people-care-about-valerie-plame-and-her-anti-semitic-tweet/?utm_term=.7f659a06a518

azureblue

(2,146 posts)
101. yes, she is
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:14 AM
Sep 2017

And the rush to try to smear her with this point is quite telling here. The right has been looking for anything they can use the bring her down, and she made this very factual statement. Which, the right being the right, they took it, created a half truth and spun it into a blanket condemnation of all Jews. And the people who fell for it and supported it and passed it on are blindingly stupid. Like Trump level stupid.

PdxSean

(574 posts)
43. Well said.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:51 PM
Sep 2017

The title should have been a huge red flag, especially at a time when Nazis are comfortable marching in the streets.

brush

(53,777 posts)
17. Whoa. If she made those kind of mistakes as an operative she would have been unveiled...
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:40 PM
Sep 2017

long before Libby and Cheney got to her.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
19. Thank you Ms. Plame-Wilson
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:42 PM
Sep 2017

People of integrity and maturity, like Plame-Wilson, own up to their mistakes, accept responsibility, and then make amends and necessary changes.

It's the polar opposite of latter-day KGOP republicanism, Inc. beliefs and practices.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
7. Why are so many of these freaks obsessed with Jews?
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:22 PM
Sep 2017

Last I checked, the majority of folks who wanted to invade both Iran and Iraq were Christians.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
9. She apologized, said she didnt read the whole thing, saw the neocon criticism and
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:25 PM
Sep 2017

went with that, I accept her apology.

I am not Jewish, though. So time will tell.

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
54. The title of the story is "Americas Jews Are Driving Americas Wars." she missed nothing.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:43 PM
Sep 2017

She got caught. I do not accept apologies from racists or bigots.

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
10. Might have guessed that the original tweet came from Philip Giraldi!
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:26 PM
Sep 2017

A Ron Paul fan, and frequent contributor to the American Conservative. He opposes most 'foreign wars' (as I do too!), but not for any pacifist reason, but because he's a xenophobic isolationist. Predictable that he'd blame the joooooooooos for wars. People like that often do. And other people should be letting his tweets die on the vine, and not re-tweet them.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
21. It doesn't(many are also critics of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians).
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:45 PM
Sep 2017

She should have checked the source of the original tweet.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
16. There's more truth to the idea that many in Israel want war with Iran but they want
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:40 PM
Sep 2017

the U.S. to pay for it with U.S. taxpayer money and lives.

Face the fact, Israel and the rest of the M.E. aren't exactly best buddies.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
20. That doesn't make it appropriate to blame "the Jews", though.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:44 PM
Sep 2017

Israel isn't "the Jews". It isn't synonymous with Jewish identity, the world's Jewish communities, the religious tenets of the various strains of Judaism.

The conflict comes from Israel being the product of a nationalist movement that has always been in territorial conflict with the other nationalist movements of the area.

thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
26. Correct... and many Jews disagree with Israeli leadership...
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:55 PM
Sep 2017

...same as here. We as Americans wouldn't all want to be brandished as automatically endorsing Trump's policies. Likewise, there are many Jews (in Israel and elsewhere) who disagree with Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli right.

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
70. Just as many Americans disagree with American leadership
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 12:43 AM
Sep 2017

Last edited Fri Sep 22, 2017, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)

We have to remember that always. We can't judge another country by it's leaders any more than we can our own

brush

(53,777 posts)
22. Warning: It's tightrope walking in critiquing the Israeli war mongers without being labeled...
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:46 PM
Sep 2017

Last edited Thu Sep 21, 2017, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

an anti-Semite.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
24. Exactly! the nation of Isarael could be another Xtian nation or Hindu or athiest, either way, the
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:52 PM
Sep 2017

fact that they are supported by the U.S. and are not well-liked in the M.E. may have nothing to do with their particular religion. You tell me....?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
44. No, it's not a tightrope. It's actually rather simplistic.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 04:03 PM
Sep 2017

No, it's not a tightrope. It's actually rather simplistic. Go after the idea, the policy, or the law. Leave personality out of it.




Or, just maintain your fictional pretense and hope your narrative continues strengthened by it.

All the coming-soon-to-a-theater-near-you rationalizations aside, it' your own choice. No one else's.

brush

(53,777 posts)
61. Pls clarify what you're saying.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 07:34 PM
Sep 2017

Do you consider criticizing warmongers in Israel who want us to bomb Iran being anti-semitic?

IMO Netanyahu's war-favoring policies are not the same as the Israeli people.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
75. The article
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:32 AM
Sep 2017

right in the title blames American Jews. Why is bibi even part of this conversation?

brush

(53,777 posts)
80. But the question is, is critiquing warmongers who happen to be Jewish being anti-semitic.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:57 AM
Sep 2017

Of course not.

And btw, the post I was responding to was about Israeli warmongers.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
82. Why is bibi or Israel even part of
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:28 AM
Sep 2017

this conversation? Especially when the VAST majority of neo-cons and warmongers (your word) are NOT Jewish. Why is being Jewish even referenced at all? And the article in question was about American Jews - leave Israel out of it.

brush

(53,777 posts)
83. Come on. " Why is being Jewish even referenced at all?" Because as you said, it's in the headline...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:35 AM
Sep 2017

of the OP.

And you still didn't answer the question.

And as I said, the post I responded to originally introduced Israel to the thread.

Here's a link to it since apparently you didn't see it:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1871144

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
84. When the religion of someone
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:38 AM
Sep 2017

is given as the REASON for behavior, then it COULD BE anti-semetic as that often leads to the age old dual loyalty canard. It really is a case by case basis. I sure don't see anyone referencing Christians in that way.

brush

(53,777 posts)
85. That's not it at all. The question is is critiquing a warmonger, who happens to be Jewish,...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:43 AM
Sep 2017

being anti-Semitic?

I say no, and I also say that one can criticize a warmonger for encouraging war, even if he/she is Jewish.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
86. As long as the argument
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:48 AM
Sep 2017

is not that the person has a dual loyalty to Israel, then I agree with you. ANYTIME anyone brings Israel or bibi into it - it's absolutely nothing but Jew hatred. And again I'll ask - why is the person's religion referenced AT ALL? And why only when they're Jewish? Perhaps these are questions you should be asking yourself.

brush

(53,777 posts)
87. Come on, the OP references American Jews. You pointed it out already.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:55 AM
Sep 2017

And pls, criticizing warmongers of any faith is not a bad thing.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
89. Like I already said
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 08:02 AM
Sep 2017

criticizing warmongers is perfectly within the realm of an excellent argument - UNLESS religion or Israel is brought into it. It's like blaming all Muslims for jihadists and that's something you would never see on DU or any other respectable board. Why is it so different when it comes to Jews?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
91. You're not getting it
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 08:13 AM
Sep 2017

Either I'm woefully bad at explaining myself or you're purposely dancing around the point. It's like saying if someone is Muslim, they MUST sympathize with the jihadists - that would be the equivalent argument that if someone is Jewish they MUST sympathize with bibi. In either case, the person's religion is being used as a weapon for haters. This isn't Plame's first problem with a Jew bashing tweet so I'm done giving her the benefit of the doubt.

brush

(53,777 posts)
93. I think you're the one not getting it. Criticizing warmongers of any faith or non-faith is fair game
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 08:40 AM
Sep 2017

Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist...whoever.

The warmonger issue is the point, not what faith they are.

At least that's my point. The OP introduce the tangential issue of faith.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
94. The title of the piece in question
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 10:05 AM
Sep 2017

SPECIFICALLY says AMERICAN JEWS. Nothing about bibi, nothing about Israel and yet you insist on defending Plame (when this isn't her first time engaging in blaming Jews as a group). There is a blind spot on DU about this and frankly, I'm tired of it. If this were about Muslims, there would be hundreds of posts about blanket blame.

brush

(53,777 posts)
95. Pls read the post on the thread I first responded to. I'm definitely not defending anti-semitism.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 10:29 AM
Sep 2017

Just criticizing warmongering.

Pls get that straight.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
96. You're defending and making excuses for Plame
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 10:43 AM
Sep 2017

while she engages (not for the first time) in anti-semitism.

brush

(53,777 posts)
97. Again, read the post in the thread I first responded to. It wasn't to the OP. And I wasn't defending
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 10:54 AM
Sep 2017

Plame.

Here's the url again of the post in the thread I first responded to. There is no mention of Plame.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1871144

Is there a comprehension problem.

I take great offense that you are saying I'm defending anti-semitism.

Get a grip.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
105. LOL - I AM responding to your original post
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 12:32 PM
Sep 2017

which was merely a warning to be careful HOW to blame the Jews and nothing more. Not sure why you keep pointing to it in defense.

brush

(53,777 posts)
107. Are you nuts? My first post was to caution that criticizing warmongers who happened to be...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 12:41 PM
Sep 2017

Jewish might get one called an anti-Semite, which is just what you're doing.

Now I guess warmongers if they're a certain faith can't be criticized in your opinion.

This reminds me of the Bill Clinton campaign slogan back in the day — "It's the economy, stupid."

It's the warmongers, s _ _ _ _ d

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
109. Uh - no
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 01:24 PM
Sep 2017

And the whining about being called an anti-semite is pathetic when I did no such thing. I called PLAME an antisemite and since this isn't her first go-around retweeting crap about the Jews, I have more than backed up. You were trying to be cute and got caught - just like Plame. When you start retweeting anti-Jewish memes like Plame does, I'll call you an antisemite also.

brush

(53,777 posts)
111. I was trying to be cute and caught at what? You're reading stuff into this that isn't there.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 02:44 PM
Sep 2017

And I'm still upset at you hinting that I'm and anti-Semite.

You've seen my screen name on this site for years, just as I've seen yours.

You should know better.

brush

(53,777 posts)
102. My response was to a post in the thread, not to the headlined OP.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:15 AM
Sep 2017

Here's a link to what I responded to:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1871144

I'n trying to get across in this back-and-forth with this other poster that I am not defending Plame or anti-Semitism.

He doesn't seem to get it and keeps insisting I am when all I'm doing is critiquing warmongering no matter what faith the warmonger happens to be.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
50. Yep, so everyone should stop accusing posters of being anti-Semitic when they're
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:25 PM
Sep 2017

referring to the Middle East's issues with the nation of Israel -and vice-versa.



Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
55. While factually true, it doesn't register for many!
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:44 PM
Sep 2017

Check out the comments here, at the site of this article, and the original article. Lots of people love anti-Semitism when it is there side doing it, and only have a "problem" with it when it is the "other" side engaged in it.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
25. NOTE: She now claims it was "a mistake"..she did not read the entire article..
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:53 PM
Sep 2017

From the Hill......what she wrote later............

“OK folks, look, I messed up. I skimmed this piece, zeroed in on the neocon criticism, and shared it without seeing and considering the rest,” Wilson tweeted.

She also said she “missed gross undercurrents” in the post and thanked Twitter users for urging her to take another look at the article’s argument.

“I’m not perfect and make mistakes. This was a doozy. All I can do is admit them, try to be better, and read more thoroughly next time. Ugh,” Wilson added.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
30. Seems to me ..she was referring to those American Jews
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:01 PM
Sep 2017

who support that horrible war monger Benny Netanyahu .....

She should have mentioned the millions of American Jesus Lovers also support..Netanyahu and company .

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
36. Whatever she said, if she is going disavow what she wrote about a partially read article..
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:09 PM
Sep 2017

then she should forget what she said completely.......................................
....This one is not supposed to be stupid, like the other one.....well, maybe she is "stupid like the other one"

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
63. Did she not read the title?
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 07:48 PM
Sep 2017

Which is: "Americas Jews Are Driving Americas Wars"

Or the first paragraph?

Which includes: "...we all know it’s American Jews with all their money and power who are supporting every war in the Middle East for Netanyahu"

Podkayne K

(145 posts)
28. All you expect from Ass H*&les is a lot of S%@t!
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 02:56 PM
Sep 2017

WTF? This is a woman who was a spy. She had to closely pay attention to detail, to seeing the big and little picture, to reading the entire situation, article, intercept, et. Al. So she sends this crap out—and on Rosh hashanah no less! She had to know what it would lead to and whom it would affect.

Not that TrumNazi’s need any reason to heil their Fuhrer. Stuff like this endorsed by a former, well-known government agent gives the haters even more excuses and legitimate reasons—at least in their eyes--to terrorize temples, synagogues, Jewish Community Centers, etc. and to push their vitriol on American Jews. I don’t buy her damn apology or excuse for a beat. This is a disgusting, hateful, low life move, period.

Oh, and the “some of my best ancestors were Jewish” meme. Who gives a shit? And what does that matter? People are—or should be—judged by their own actions. And actions such as this pretty much tell everything about whom someone is and what is truly in their heart and psyche.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
33. She was a hero to many....back when she went after Bush Lies..
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:08 PM
Sep 2017

Also I think she was talking about Netanyahu Supporters..

I'm celebrating Rosh hashanah tonight with friends... So I say this as a Jew.. Fucking Benjamin Netanyahu is a Fucking War Monger who insulted our President.. I can't stand anyone who wants to stamp out indigenous civilizations.

Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Podkayne K

(145 posts)
39. Once more into the s8&t storm
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:27 PM
Sep 2017

For all those expressing Anti-Netanyaho sentiment. I couldn't agree more.

But do you really think the TrumNazi's give a crap about nuances? Articles like this just fuel the book burning. Subtlety and shade will find no place in their reasoning or their vicious responses.

Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Mike Nelson

(9,955 posts)
42. She messed up...
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 03:49 PM
Sep 2017

...and said she did. It's gotten to a point where I won't repost unless I read it all - and look an the other articles from the same site. I wasn't always so careful. I think you are "agreeing" with a repost unless you add something saying you don't agree.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
64. She didn't have to read it all or look at other articles from the same site
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 07:49 PM
Sep 2017

She just had to read the title and the first paragraph.

Edit to add: Also, she's tweeted articles from that site before.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
51. I'm starting to think that stuff on the Internet is unreliable.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:31 PM
Sep 2017

I'm actually starting to wonder if the Internet isn't an actual fucking cesspool of manufactured "facts" and testimonials from people who may or may not really exist. I'm starting to wonder if we aren't all actually enthralled to a massive bullshit engine directed by people who have the money, the power, and the means to control it.

I'm thinking that maybe I should put the Internet away every once in a while and just read a good book. Then call up some friends or, better yet, go see them, and talk about it.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
56. Anything that includes the phrase "America's Jews" and doesn't end with something like
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:53 PM
Sep 2017

"frequently go to a Synagogue" is going to be filled with a whole bunch of idiocy and she should have known that, especially as an operations officer.

Disappointing. Her response was good but still a major error of judgement if not a revelation of bias.
57. Plame tweeted this in 2015 . . .
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 06:21 PM
Sep 2017



Note that the underlying story she was passing along in 2015 was by the same author (Philip Giraldi) and appeared in the same online publication (Unz.com) as with her most recent "American Jews" tweet.

She knew what she was doing.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
62. Now she is just reminding me of conspiracy theory types
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 07:42 PM
Sep 2017

Last edited Thu Sep 21, 2017, 09:45 PM - Edit history (1)

There is always bigotry behind it.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
67. She's of Jewish descent. So .... But she worked overseas, where goals of hte U S were of primary
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 08:57 PM
Sep 2017

concern, and neocon hawks pushing wars, so that's apparently an interest of hers, naturally. Esp the neocon Cheney.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
71. her father's side is jewish but her mother's is christian and she was raised Christian
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 02:17 AM
Sep 2017

not that it would make much difference in how offensive it was.

just like ben carson being black didn't make referring to slaves as immigrants any less worse.

still_one

(92,190 posts)
76. when she used that as justification why she couldn't be anti-Jewish, that should raise a lot of
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:46 AM
Sep 2017

eyebrows.

Even her excuse, she just "skimmed" the article doesn't hold water. When the title of the article she is linking is:

"America’s Jews are Driving America’s Wars.”

That is some awfully fancy "skimming" she is doing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/valerie-plame-can-claim-whatever-she-wants-but-her_us_59c43736e4b0b7022a646944

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
100. That doesn't automatically make her pro-Jewish...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:10 AM
Sep 2017

Clarence Thomas is of African-American descent; that doesn't mean that his Supreme Court votes are not racist.

One of the most right-wing people in UKIP, and editor in chief of Breitbart in London. is called Raheem Kassam, which is not exactly a standard white British name. Doesn't mean that Breitbart isn't racist.

In any case, it is possible that she was not antitsemitic, but just incredibly careless with her tweets.

still_one

(92,190 posts)
78. Does it occur to you that an article titled "America's Jews are Driving America's Wars", just might
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:57 AM
Sep 2017

have anti-semitic content?

Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

still_one

(92,190 posts)
77. Yes it is, but it is not surprising to me. This article answers those giving her a pass
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:53 AM
Sep 2017


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/valerie-plame-can-claim-whatever-she-wants-but-her_us_59c43736e4b0b7022a646944


,,,,,,,,

"I mean, who would’ve thought an article titled, “America’s Jews are Driving America’s Wars,” might have anti-semitic content. This kind of mistake could’ve happened to anybody.

The truth is, Plame obviously read the piece, agreed with it because she has a burning hatred of Israel (which she has tweeted about in the past, including approvingly commenting on this very same author before), and re-tweeted it thinking she was making some incredible point about “evil Zionists.” Except she got much more backlash than she expected and eventually cried uncle."

That’s why her so-called “apology” rings hollow. She clearly meant everything she said initially and only backtracked when the Twitter pitchforks got too hot for her liking. But I’m not fooled and I’d wager neither is anybody else."

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
92. linking to nutbar sites because you found found a few words
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 08:22 AM
Sep 2017

you agree with is a DU tradition... Hell, just yesterday someone I won't name linked to a Lew Rockwell blogger...

Reading the entire piece, checking the sources and glancing at the other 'stories' on a given news site is passe, I guess

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
112. I'm estranged from much of my family over this issue.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 05:01 PM
Sep 2017

I'm not a big fan of Israel while they think we should let Netanyahu target and launch our Minuteman missiles.

Naturally this means if I were alive during World War Two I would have collaborated with the nazis.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
114. What does your family think
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:10 PM
Sep 2017

about the preplanned attack on the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967 by Israel because of bad intel. Israel military thought that the spy ship had Hebrew linguists aboard who were monitoring the Israeli military when only Russian linguists were aboard. Israel wanted to take the Golan Heights before the US knew about it. Why was I upset? Besides being in the US military at the time, I am Jewish and born on June 8, 1943. My sources were people I had worked with. I was a Russian linguist for, at the time, a very secret government agency. This post isn't about the article, but about your post about your family. I hope it doesn't sound derogatory, I don't mean it that way, just curious.

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