Prom dress prompts 'cultural appropriation' row

[EX500rider]

Source: BBC

A high school student's prom pictures have generated a furious debate online after some social media users accused the 18-year-old of "cultural appropriation".

Twitter user Keziah, who is not Chinese, posted pictures of herself wearing a cheongsam, or qipao - a traditional Chinese dress - for her prom in Utah, USA, last week.

In a widely-shared response to the pictures, one Twitter user, Jeremy Lam, tweeted: "My culture is not your... prom dress".

The original tweet, and Lam's criticism on Friday night, have attracted hundreds of thousands of likes, tens of thousands of retweets, and thousands more comments as supporters and critics clashed over the weekend over the concept of cultural appropriation - the adoption of minority cultures, typically by dominant cultures.



Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43947959

[First Speaker]

1. Well, the President of China wears a suit and tie...

[pnwmom]

4. Exactly. n/t

[jberryhill]

7. And didn't have an issue with Meliana's

She wore a Gucci cheongsam.

Did any of these people who think it's "okay" to bully a teenage girl have anything to say about that?

[uppityperson]

49. To be fair, wearing a local culture gown to a dinner is different than a prom elsewhere

[marybourg]

53. Is it different in a meaningful way?

[uppityperson]

80. It can be very different, of course. It depends on how and why it's done.

[pnwmom]

2. When Asians wear western style clothing, no one condemns it as appropriation.

That would be silly -- we want our clothes to sell there.

[EX500rider]

8. Yeah seems to me if it's OK for Asian girls to dress western for their prom..

...it ought be OK for western girls to dress eastern..

[pnwmom]

26. And all the Asian guys are wearing "traditional" western suits or tuxes. n/t

[treestar]

65. Plus the makers and sellers of Asian clothing

are not going to have a problem with others buying it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. The issue seems to be that minority cultures can appropriate but dominant cultures cannot.

The theory being that dominance means powerful influences on minority cultures, like wanting to "fit in" or assimilate for career advancement or for avoiding harassment.

I don't think a lot of the prohibitory talk is well thought out.

Some items have sacred symbolism, like Native American headdresses and eagle feathers. It seems clear that those should not be worn unless in a context where the culture condones it or people are comfortable with it or permission has been given.

Other items less so or much less so.

[pnwmom]

87. And with the size of China's economy and population, I don't see it as a minority culture. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

115. It is a minority culture in the USA. But I'm not expert on the issue or people's feelings about it.

[christx30]

113. Who gives permission?

Is the word of one person enough (“Naa, man, it’s cool. I talked to Greg. He said it’s ok”), or is there a Council I should seek to speak with, like the Great and Powerful Oz?
Or maybe it’s a fake issue, designed to make the people that buy into it look silly? People should wear what they want. You’ll always be able to find one or more people that have a problem with it. And you’ll find people that either don’t care at all, or think it’s cool you’re celebrating their culture. There is a spectrum of human thought between the ‘offended snowflake, I want to see your manager’ stereotype and ‘who gives a crap?’.
To a which side of the spectrum shoul we all bow?

[Renew Deal]

3. Wait till guys start wearing Greek soldier uniforms to the prom

Oh the humanity

[Liberal Veteran]

6. The pom poms on the shoes really make the outfit pop. -nt

[Renew Deal]

19. You know somebody looked at that uniform and thought the shoes were too plain.

We need to spice it up a bit.

[PoliticAverse]

89. You know somebody looked at that uniform and thought "make the pom poms bigger!".

[madaboutharry]

39. You made me laugh.

[SharonClark]

64. LOL!

[Demovictory9]

134. love it.

[rufnear]

142. Can't stop laughing..

Thank you for the "pick me up"

[Sneederbunk]

5. Should I destroy my old Nehru jacket?

[christx30]

23. Yes. But no reason having to do with cultural appropriation.

[Bradshaw3]

88. Lol. Good one.

[MosheFeingold]

52. Yes

But mainly because they make everyone look like a putz.

Oh, and stop using Yiddish words, you goy!

Drop the bagel!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

70. No.

There may be situations where you could ask and it would be appropriate.

In any case, at the least, pass it on to someone who could or would wear it.

Clothing waste is a huge drag on the environment and the economy. Much better to reuse.

[JI7]

78. Indian People Love Seeing others Wear their Clothing

Especially Saris.

But they also have not been associated with a negative stereotype which may have to do with offense taken with this chinese dress.

But it's not like the girl is ridiculing the culture in wearing it. It's not costumy and stereotypical with bad makeup. It's just a pretty dress.

Alsoi I'm being MOST asians don't really givea shit.

[madaboutharry]

9. Were is the line drawn?

Only French women can wear a beret?
Only athletes can wear running shoes?
Only Scots can wear plaid?
Only Jews can eat chicken soup?

I think clothing can be universally appreciated. And there is a difference between appreciating the beauty of something and appropriation. It is a beautiful dress, I am sure that is why she wanted to wear it.

[RandomAccess]

59. It's about cultures. and their specific cultural

dress and adornment, especially those which aren't part of the dominant culture which in the U.S. is white, mostly male.

So you have nothing to worry about with the French and athletes and Scots and Jews and their special garb since they're all mostly part of the dominant culture.

[TygrBright]

10. I get this, I think.

If you look into the attempts of Asian women to explain the particularly repulsive types of combined misogyny/racism to which they're subjected, and then go and look at ALL the pictures in the linked article, you might understand better.

In particular, the pic where she's lifting her leg to show the long slit up the side of the garment, which plays into the whole "dragon lady chic" thing that's part of the sexual objectification specific to Asian women.

It's a learning opportunity.

I often buy or wear ethnically-inflected garments because I admire how they look and/or (if they're Fair Trade items) I want to support the crafters who make them.

But in future I'll be a little more attentive to which stereotypes any particular garment might project, whether intentionally or not, and whether that might be hurtful or insensitive to people who have experienced cultural victimization.

interestedly,
Bright

[jberryhill]

12. Uh huh

The Chinese were really, really offended.

[TygrBright]

15. I don't know if they were, or not. I haven't seen any responses by Chinese women. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

25. My wife is Chinese

and grew up in China. She has several Qi Pao dresses. While she doesn't wear them often, she has worn them. Heck, when we had wedding pictures taken, she posed in several qi pao dresses for the pictures - and, this was in China. I think almost every one of her female friends that is married has similar pictures from her wedding wearing a Qi Pao dress. (And, also the traditional Western white wedding dress) - and this is for women married to Chinese guys and non Chinese guys.

We got married in 2001 in the US, but her parents could not make it here from China because it was not long after 9/11... we then went to China a few years later and had another ceremony there. One thing Chinese do before the wedding is take "wedding" photos that they can hand out to guests at the actual wedding, instead of waiting until after the wedding photography is done and then the couple returns from the honeymoon...

[DRoseDARs]

32. The ultimate cultural appropriation: Inter-racial marriage. The horror, the HORROR!

Jesus H. Christ these cries of "cultural appropriation" need to stop. Even saying that, I'm appropriating from Semitic culture.

I'm glad you got a chance to go to China to have a do-over of sorts for her parents. Seems like the setting would be utterly gorgeous. And totally appropriated because sure, why not, anything and everything is and we need to be adults and accept that instead of whining on Twitter.

[NewJeffCT]

44. At the time

we went to several wedding photography places in her home city of Nanjing. Every single set of sample wedding pictures we saw had English writing on them - much of it poorly written. I was told at the time that many Chinese thought have English lettering on their wedding photos made them look more sophisticated. I had to specifically request that they please do not put any English lettering into our wedding photos. I guess that was China appropriating western culture?

I think Chinese in China have a more open-minded view than Chinese outside of China in terms of interracial relationships and children - there seems to be a fascination there with mixed children (I saw a talent show a few years back on Chinese TV that featured all mixed children)

[Marengo]

96. My wife is from Wuhan, and our biracial son recieves considerable attention when we are there...

I have found it to be a commonly held belief in China that biracial children tend to be more intelligent. He is entirely comfortable and self confident in China, and I have the impression this also fascinates people to a degree. He’s well known in the neighborhood where my in laws live as xiao laowai.

[7962]

75. Love this post. nt

[pnwmom]

27. But Chinese men wear traditional western style suits and evening jackets. Why is no one

complaining about that?

[DRoseDARs]

34. Because hypocrisy, with a touch of myopic cluelessness. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

71. No. It's about power relationships between cultures, up / down. In some case there are sacred issue

[TygrBright]

36. I don't want to speak for anyone.

I'm not Asian.

But I suspect it has to do with the specific type of sexualized racism/misogyny combination to which Asian women are frequently subjected.

And that's it for me.

I'm not comfortable in the speculating/speaking for role beyond my own perceptions/beliefs.

I try to pay attention to my own inherent biases but I know I miss a lot.

diffidently,
Bright

[pnwmom]

40. Neither am I. But I've been bothered by some similar discussions.

For example, complaints of cultural appropriation because of hair styles.

I have very frizzy, curly hair but some people consider hairstyles for hair like mine to be appropriation. Meanwhile, some POC with hair like mine are getting theirs "relaxed" and yet that's not considered appropriation.

Sometimes it seems that this idea goes too far. But I appreciate your sensitivity, as always.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

72. Some people who "relax" their hair get bullied by peers for acquiescing to power dominance. . . . nt

[pnwmom]

86. My opinion is no one should care about anyone else's hair. But I spent a few years

as a child getting called names about my hair, and developed a pretty hard shell. If someone doesn't like it, tough. Im never going to pour chemicals on it just to fit in better.

[Cold War Spook]

121. The word is conk.

I see very little of it on men now.

[marble falls]

41. The woman appropriating western culture in eyeglasses and course tweed jacket might be....

unhappy about it. She seems irked about something to me.

[jberryhill]

33. I've seen the Pakistani guys in my area wearing these outfits, and I want one....

I believe it is called a salwar kameez, and seems to be everyday wear in certain cultures. It's a long loose-fitting top with slits up the sides on the bottom, and a pair of loose pants to match. It looks great for hanging out in hot weather.

Do I seriously have to be concerned that someone is going to blow a gasket because I think their clothes look comfortable and would like to try them?

[grantcart]

46. While I appreciate your kind attitude the premise expressed by Ms. Lam simply isn't shared in "Asia"

The word "asian" does not exist in its indigenous form in any "asian" language

Every 'asian' language has a common word used in daily conversation to put all foreigners into the same category.

In Thai it is farang, Chinese its gwello or laowai, Japanese its gaijin.

In English we do not have a word that puts, all Portugese, Russians, Canadians, Americans, Brazilians into the same category (well we do, but it is almost exclusively used for academic reference - Occidental)

So the idea that this is an "Asian sensitivity" doesn't reflect how Asians communicate about themselves in their own languages

I can tell you that having lived in Asia for two decades that "Asians" would not be offended that someone wanted to express themselves by using their national dress for a formal occasion. They wouldn't be happy if it is used in caricature but wouldn't say anything. In fact they feel flattered if you make an attempt to cross cultural lines and speak the language, wear the dress or eat the food.

You might remember seeing pictures of Pan Asian meetings where there is one night when all of the participants are requested to wear the national dress of the host country.










This premise that "Asians" are offended by the appropriation of symbols can be easily disproven by visiting all of the Chinese Restaurants and you will see that a good number of them label their bar as the "Buddha Room" and have the ridiculous version of the laughing Buddha, a ridiculous caricature of a sacred image prominently in the bar. Their sensitivities are not our sensitivities.

This is, however, a very good example of the kind of sensitivity that Americans have (and I would say over sensitivity) to ethnic issues, in this case it is used by an Americanized Chinese.

If Americans want to show more sensitivity to other cultures, not wearing their dress is not a very significant step. Learning a second language or even a small step of accepting foreign movies with sub titles (something everybody in the world but Americans do) is more significant.

I will leave you with a great quote by the late great Prime Minister of Thailand Kukrit Pramoj who was a man of the arts and appeared as a Prime Minister in the great film "The Ugly American"




When it was Thailand's turn to host the ASEAN Foreign Ministers there was a tradition of having everyone wearing the national dress of the host country they asked PM Kukrit which of the many Thai styles he would choose and he answered:

"ชุดประจำชาติของประเทศไทยคือเสื้อ Arrow"

"The national dress of Thailand is an Arrow shirt".

Cheers

[treestar]

68. Reminds me of the laughs we had on DU

When Dubya wore that long light blue Vietnamese outfit.

Obama looks great in that photo!

[Takket]

55. "which plays into the whole "dragon lady chic" thing"

or she likes showing off her legs.... like.... literally any woman that wears an outfit that exposes her legs.

sometimes a leg slit is just leg slit

[LoveMyCali]

116. A leg slit would also allow her to take normal steps

Instead of walking like Morticia Addams.

[RandomAccess]

62. It's more basic than that tho that's probably a part of it as well

It's about the dominant culture (white) appropriating for our own use the special dress, adornments, and art of other cultures. Native American traditional dress. African American traditional dress. Chinese cultural dress. Etc. They don't have an equal place in our culture, but WE feel free to adopt for our own use, enjoyment and too often profit what it is that makes them them.

[Hortensis]

144. "It is possible to read the history of this country as

one long struggle to extend the liberties established in our Constitution to everyone in America. ~ Molly Ivins

That goes for everyone, Random. White girls get to wear the clothes they want every bit as much as Chinese girls.

Small societies do face corruption and obliteration of their cultures, but that's hardly the case for the Chinese fast heading for 1.4 billion people. To put it mildly. If there were any validity to this mean spiritedness, we might be complaining about their wearing t-shirts and jeans, but of course there isn't and we're not.

I strongly suspect the dress is being used an excuse to express hostility toward "others" who are not of the accusers' "tribe." Anxiety about cultural and racial mixing is almost always a sign of strong conservatives. It is possible that this attack on this poor girl could reflect the prototypical radical left's "us bad/them good" biases toward these issues, of course, but they're vastly outnumbered by right-wing bigots, so my money's on the latter.

In any case, let's face it, if they were white and she of Chinese background, some would leap to call these people racist troublemakers for this kind of behavior. That might not be correct, but calling them small-minded, mean-spirited troublemakers would be.

[RandomAccess]

145. I learned about cultural appropriation primarily from the

wonderful, beautiful Native Americans I rubbed tweets and FB posts in my fervent support and armchair activism for Standing Rock. It was a hard lesson for me -- I too didn't want to believe that it was a thing, or that I -- as an ever uber-privileged white woman -- should EVER have to check myself on my use of dress and icons from other cultures.

But learn it I did.

So I have been deeply sorrowed by all that I've read on this thread, a thread on the subject on a PROGRESSIVE discussion forum. Most people -- except 2 that I recall (but barely) -- have wanted to double- or triple-down on their white privilege. To a certain extent I can understand, after all I just admitted I didn't want to "understand it" either. But what I've mostly seen missing is any INTEREST in understanding.

But it gets worse.

Not only are most people in this thread not interested, too many of them hugged their white privilege close to their puffed out chests and made disparaging, contemptuous remarks about the people and the concept itself.

Not a good look for Democratic Underground. Not a good look at all.

ETA: Just as a point of information. A year or more ago there was a huge brouhaha over the fact that Mley Cyrus was twerking in her new show, clear cultural appropriation of African American artists.

[Moostache]

11. Hey look! Shiny object over there....pay no attention to Trump...buy more, think none...

Anyone who is in today's world and living through the NATIONAL APPROPRIATION of Trumpism yet still finds time to worry about some high school girl's choice in prom dress is the exact definition of the problem writ large.

This should never have seen the light of day and the only people who believe cultural appropriation is the most pressing issue of the day need to become better informed and more vigilant already.


And another thing, for those of you out in social media wasteland thinking this shit on your phones, tablets and PCs actually matters AT ALL:
hundreds of thousands of likes, (I'll give you the maximum possible 999,999....out of a population of say 350,000,000, that is 0.0029%
tens of thousands of retweets, (again, let's give the maximum 99,999....that is 0.00029% of the population)
and thousands more comments as supporters (one last maximum 9,999....and of course that is 0.000029% of the population...)


If you think this is an actual issue, or at all important to the fate of the nation, STOP, put down your Twitter/Facebook delivery device and smash the fucking thing into a million pieces, then take a glass of ice water, pour it directly over your head and WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! It is nonsense like this and the people who blindly see a phrase like "hundreds of thousands of likes" and think that actually means ANYTHING that have helped derail the nation and put a fool like Trump in charge of all of our fates.

Goddamn, I feel like I may need to self-immolate to get people to stop believing ignorant shit on media outlets as actually important news...no wonder this is becoming such a shithole country by the hour...

[jberryhill]

14. Joy Reid ate the last cookie in the jar, and didn't replace the toilet paper roll

[Moostache]

17. My god...BURN HER!!! While we're at it, are there any other women telling jokes who need to go? (n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

105. In The Bathroom At Olive Garden

It just gets worse and worse.

[kwassa]

114. Covered in cornflakes, and breast-feeding.

[ProfessorGAC]

117. Oh, I See You've Heard The Whole Story, Then!

I didn't want to get mired in the details, but since you knew about the cornflakes, no harm done.

[kwassa]

120. I didn't even mention the pitbull.

[CanSocDem]

124. Well said. I should have stopped reading here. n/t

[packman]

13. Cultural Appropriation -

Of all the things in life to cause grief or harm - Talk about tempest in a teapot issues

[snort]

21. How dare this person imitate one of the Frost Giants!

Outrage!

[DRoseDARs]

16. Anyone who isn't of Anglo-Saxon descent speaking English is engaging in cultural appropriation.

This is a fun game.

Jeremy Lam needs to stick to the Chinese of his ancestors. Also, stop wearing pants. Those belong to Persian culture and you culturally appropriated those as well, Mr. Lam. Drive a car? Cultural appropriation. Europeans made those first. Enjoy democracy? Greek, not Chinese. That pizza you had last week? Italian. "Appropriation" can be found in literally every fucking thing you do depending on how far back you go. Written language? Sumerians did it first. Goddamn this nonsense is obnoxious and pointless.

And I especially love how a man is telling a woman what she can and cannot wear.

[volstork]

18. Thank you for calling this out.

It is just more bullshit distraction.

[snort]

24. Better not catch him with a fuckin fork!

Grrr!

[DBoon]

131. English is spoken cultural appropriation

Old Germanic plus Old Scandinavian (Viking) plus Norman (Viking) French, then Latin, Greek, Modern French, and every other language on the planet.

Words like bungalow or glitch or tsunami or chocolate, for example were all appropriated from other languages

If you want to avoid cultural appropriation, speak like Beowolf

[DRoseDARs]

137. It goes back and back and back... nt

[MontanaMama]

20. I wore a cheongsam

to a party back when I was in college. I bought it at a vintage clothing store. I LOVED that dress. It's all about intention. I intended to wear a beautiful dress to a party. Looks to me as if this young woman had the same goal. She looks beautiful in my view. It might be different if she were wearing this as a Halloween costume with exaggerated make up etc. but she isn't. Her post isn't offensive. Just my opinion.

[EX500rider]

22. Yeah it seems more about cultural appreciation to me.

[Freethinker65]

42. +1000

[PoliticAverse]

28. i'm getting old, I remember when someone wearing an object associated with your culture ...

was considered to be flattering to your culture. Must be all those articles about Russians wanting to wear American
blue jeans I read when I was younger.

[7962]

77. Another great point! nt

[ripcord]

106. These people should be happy

I'm a fat 56 year old truck driver, no one wants to dress like me.

[flotsam]

29. I know just how Jeremy feels...

I'm Irish and every March 17th a bunch of Italian and Polish guys show up at the local bar in Green Top hats dancing jigs and yelling about people touching "me Lucky Charms"....I'm heart-broken for weeks afterward...

[marble falls]

43. You mean referring to myself as O'Bronstein won't fly next year??? ....

You knew Lucky the Leprechaun had an evil twin? His name was Unlucky and he had his own cereal - Unlucky Charms - and they were said to be "Tragically Delicious!"

[gay texan]

30. I think she looks very pretty.

If I had better curves, i would wear it

[YOHABLO]

31. WTF is wrong with people? "My culture is not your... prom dress". Really?

This 'Jeremy Lam' needs to get a life.

[Igel]

81. What's sad is that "her culture" reduced to a dress is

sad.

Thing is, cultures change all the time, as well as when and where to wear them.

Apparently the current version of the qipao dress dates back less than a hundred years and was intended not to be a cultural tradition but a saleable, sexy dress for socialites. Unless she thinks her culture is upper-crust trendy Taiwanese and some mainlanders, and that really *is* the culture of her ancestors, she's got "her culture" wrong. Perhaps because the generation born in the US from other countries sees a warped version of how the actual culture, the way objects fit in, the norms for their use, and the values and attitudes that go with them seldom translate so nicely into another culture.

[cemaphonic]

119. This is a really good point about culture constantly changing.

I play the banjo, and have learned that it has a really complex history and relationship with racial and cultural identity. It's ancestors are a family of very old instruments from West Africa, recreated by slaves in America, but the modern form was invented barely 200 years ago by a white man. It was hugely popular all through the 19th century among blacks and whites, but through minstrel shows, became part of the whole ugly "fried chicken and watermelon" caricature of rural black life. In the 20th century, it all but disappeared from American cultural life, except for a tiny pocket of Appalachia, which developed a really rich musical culture around it. Then it was rediscovered by the rest of America, this time tied to a bunch of ugly stereotypes about white rural life.

So in the span of a couple hundred years it's been a "black" traditional instrument, and a "white" traditional instrument, and it's carried more than its fair share of baggage over the years. But ultimately, it's become part of the fabric of American music, and we would be poorer had people stuck to some artificial boundary about which culture it belonged to.

Similar stories for the harmonium in Pakistan/ N. India, or the ukulele and pedal steel guitar in Hawaii.

[Jedi Guy]

35. Oh for crying out loud.

The people screaming about "cultural appropriation" are so damn tiresome. She didn't wear it to mock or stereotype. She wore it because she thought it was beautiful. If anything, she's showing appreciation for the style of dress of another culture.

This is a far cry from a frat kid dressing up as a stereotypical Mexican with the big sombrero, or going in blackface. Intent matters.

This is just what people do these days when they're bored, I guess. They find something utterly trivial or inconsequential and get all outraged and offended. Sounds to me like folks like Mr. Lam should consider adopting a hobby. The poutrage is long since stale.

[marble falls]

37. I don't care if anybody dresses like me or not. More power to her.....

any complaints for me dissolve knowing how many pairs of Levi's are being worn in China. And how many pairs of knock off Levis are being worn.

Sometimes 'cultural appropriation' is more 'cultural appreciation'.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

38. I do the same. I go to work dressed as if I'll be working. Instead, I'm ... well, never mind. NT

[Floyd R. Turbo]

45. Jeremy!

[DashOneBravo]

56. I wonder if he talked to his parents ...

[Floyd R. Turbo]

92. Bingo!

[onetexan]

47. This cultural appropriation thing has gone too far

First i had heard of such a coined phrase was in an article last month re: some black young people accusing Bruno Mars of stealing black people's musical genre. Really? Who cares?? Bruno can sing whatever genre he pleases, non-black women can wear corn rows, and any woman can wear any fashion she desires.
This young lady can wear the lovely cheongsam she selected for her prom dress. Jeremy Lam needs a lesson in cultural diversity.
BTW, the Chinese Cheongsam, along with other asian traditional fashion including the various forms of Sari dress customary of Indian, Thai and other South Asian women, has been copied for many many years by western designers, and worn by many western women.
It's an attractive and alluring dress in my view. I happen to have several, and recommended a seamstress to make one for for a coworker's daughter for her prom in the 90's. I also have a couple thai sari's from my many travels as well, made of beautiful thai silk.

[Ferrets are Cool]

48. So? This is what we have come to?

I don't have words for my disgust.
Can it be blamed on the anonymous nature of social media or is it just the human race that is decaying intellectually?

[keithbvadu2]

50. What culture is the name "Jeremy" appropriating? Any Chinese emperors named "Jeremy"?

[MosheFeingold]

51. Everything is appropriated

From somewhere. And made something new.

Flour tortillas are from the Sephardic Jewish Passover (long story involving doubts if corn was kosher due to Native's religious beliefs about corn). No more fajitas for you!

Pasta is from China, Italy. Drop that meatball.

And salmon-based sushi -- well, that's from California, Japan.

A suit (let alone a tux) is English and Scottish. Not to mention most plaid fabrics.

The Apache and Comanche appropriated horses from the white man. And yet the animals are very much part of their culture.

Rock and Roll music? A blend of African and Irish Rhythms, various European melodies, and Appalachian lyrics (and about 50 other things).

Rap Music? Don't look now, but go listen to Bob Dylan. And spoken word poets before him.

Stomp? Uh,oh. The Gaelic want it back.

Seriously, "cultural appropriation" is stupid.

This is America. We all come from somewhere, blend all the good stuff together, and get stuff that's really cool.

[treestar]

67. [phone]

The idea is absurd and a contradiction of all history. Humans do this and always will. Most people probably like something of theirs getting that appreciation.

[jberryhill]

110. I always get a kick....

...out of the local mosque charging $5 for parking in their lot across from the German club during the Oktoberfest celebration.

It just doesn't get more American than that.

[weissmam]

54. The last time I checked , if she paid for it

its hers

[OregonBlue]

57. Oh For F_cks Sake. It was a pretty girl wearing what she thought was a pretty dress. Western women

have been wearing these for decades because they are beautiful and flattering. Asian women have been wearing Western apparel for decades as well. Give me a break. This is "politically/ethnically correct" run amok.

[eggplant]

58. When did China become a minority culture? n/t

[EX500rider]

60. Well there are only 1.379 billion Chinese in China.... : )

[gay texan]

73. Monty python wrote a song about that very subject n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

76. ALWAYS been a minority culture in the USA!? But more about power relationships up down btwn cultures

[JI7]

85. In the US it is. Which is why they were banned from coming here

[Oneironaut]

61. Bill Maher - That's Not News

Seems appropriate here.

[Nash Teeth]

63. Winner of the non-issue of the day

It's cloth. Should Americans also give up the Cinese inventions of fireworks and gun powder? Well, the latter would be fine to give up.

[SharonClark]

66. Now don't make me go to twitter to respond to "Jeremy" Lam.

I have better things to do.

[7962]

74. The dress is beautiful and so is she. This is getting ridiculous. Beyond.

My narcissistic stalker should be along to correct me shortly.

[EllieBC]

79. The new "call out culture" of social media

is full of people with nothing better to do than grift (many of them have PayPal accounts and regularly ask for money), doxx those that disagree with them, and in general sow discord.

[matt819]

82. Oh ffs

Did any Chinese kids wear suits and ties?

Did all Indian kids wear a dhoti?

Did the Pakistani kids wear shalwar kameez?

I hope all the Japanese girls worea kimono?

Did Kenyan girls go topless?

[fierywoman]

83. No more Chanel, Dior, Lagerfeld, Hermes, Dolce e Gabbana, etc for the wives of Chinese, Japanese

and Russian billionaires!

[NoodleyAppendage]

84. I guess I need to stop eating at ethnic restaurants

I wouldn't want my stomach to culturally appropriate their food stuffs.

This sh*t is crazy and EXACTLY why reasonable people veer at times towards the conservative party/movement.

J

[Jedi Guy]

104. Yup.

And conservatives love things like this. Remember safe spaces? They had a field day mocking liberal "snowflakes" over that. They work overtime insisting that these are important issues to progressives, and making dire predictions of political correctness run amok if liberals are allowed to call the shots.

[Codeine]

135. Man, this means I'm back to turnips

and haggis. I’d say potatoes, but we appropriated those from the Inca.

[TomSlick]

90. Of for pity's sake.

It's a beautiful outfit that she obviously enjoyed wearing.

I have a barong tagalog that my dad brought home from the Philippines decades ago. I still wear it to summer events. Cultural expropriation? Nah, I just like the shirt and the fact my father gave it to me.

[crim son]

91. My adult daughter was chastised for wearing French braids,

the same sort of braid my Finnish grandmother wore. She taught me, I taught my daughter. But Kira was told she was appropriating black culture. Bullshit.

[MicaelS]

126. Hope she told them to Fuck Off. n/t

[Yorkist]

93. It's odd....

......but the way some people would have you believe it this whole "cultural appropriation" bullshit emanates from the "liberals" and the "left".

Meanwhile, on DU - where it's fair to say you find more than the occasional liberal or leftist - not a single one of 90 posts here has indicated an ounce of support for the concept.

So who is shitting who ?

[EX500rider]

95. Post #10 seems to have an ounce of support...

...and a few years back we had a massive post about the subject with much support, I think it was about white rappers, especially Iggy Azalea.

[JI7]

97. iggy azalea has said outright bigoted stuff

[EX500rider]

98. The thread was about cultural appropration though

[JI7]

99. but the context matters

there is a reason why people were upset with her .

[RhodeIslandOne]

107. I think the average DUer comes from a generation when....

....being interested in and participating in other cultures outside of blue jeans and burgers was considered a liberal trait and an expansion of one's education. Now it's being twisted as some sort of insult.

[jberryhill]

111. +1

[msongs]

94. proms are a show biz production, dresses merely costumes nt

[MountCleaners]

100. I don't know how I feel about this

It depends on the significance of the qipao, and I'm not Chinese so I cannot speak to that. She may have been to China, or have a genuine affinity for Chinese culture....or she could fetishize that culture, although in this case, I doubt it. This style is used in fashion quite a bit. It is a little bit odd, I myself wouldn't do it unless I had been an exchange student or had traveled to China or had some other Chinese connection. But I also don't believe in getting excessively worked up about it.

Some people rightfully get upset about cultural appropriation, though. For example, white women who appropriate Indian culture because of some colonialist ideas about "spirituality". Sometimes, if you come from the colonizing group, the idea that another culture is "better" or more spiritual than your own is patronizing. There are just some things that I as a (mostly) white woman wouldn't do. I myself get annoyed about distorted "Irishness" on St. Patrick's Day in the USA, so I can relate.

[obamanut2012]

101. Absolutely nothing wrong with this

If she had chopsticks in her hair or "yellow face," then yes. THIS IS A DRESS. And, this style was popular in the US in the 70s. This is not a war bonnet or something.

Ridiculous.

Also, what a neat -- and relatively cheap -- idea for a prom dress.

[Javaman]

102. no more jeans for anyone else in the world!!!!!

that's only American wear!!!!

for fuck sakes. this is ridiculous.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

127. Denim? de Nimes? NT

[Dr. Strange]

103. I'm eating tamales with chopsticks. This is why America was founded

Wise words from a truly wise man.

Link to tweet

[cemaphonic]

122. LOL

nice find

[Nitram]

108. My opinion, which I'm sure is not shared by most, is that it all depends on the context and intent.

When frat boys wear a Native American headdress and mimic Indian dancing, that is cultural appropriation. A teenager wears a pretty Chinese dress to the prom? That's just a pretty Chinese dress.

I think the squabble over dreadlocks is the most enlightening. African Americans sometimes take offense when white men have dreadlocks, apparently assuming that they originated in the Caribbean or Africa. In reality, dreadlocks have been a thing in numerous cultures, in ancient India, Nepal, Greece, Africa, and Egypt.

I think we should just let it go unless the intent is to make fun of, ridicule, or disparage someone else's culture. I don't hear much angst expressed about spiritual appropriation, which is very common. The Christian cross is a popular fashion accessory in Japan among non-Christians, the Buddha's likeness is seen on T-shirts and living rooms all across Christendom, and Hindu deities are popular fashion statements. The Taoist ying-yang symbol is ubiquitous. If these religions aren't getting uptight about it, let's give people who admire the garb of another culture a break.

[Abu Pepe]

109. About this whole cultural appropriation thing

Its been going on since paleolithic times and is quite normal human activity. Had Keith Richards not appropriated the likes of Robert Johnson the world would be a worse place.

[skypilot]

112. This stood out to me.

It's a quote from the guy who protested:

"This piece of clothing embraced femininity, confidence and gender equality through its beautiful, eye-catching appearance."

Can't these qualities be shared across different cultures?

[jmowreader]

118. Two questions come to mind

Question 1: Who the fuck is Jeremy Lam in the first place.

and

Question 2: When did he get the authority to decide how other people are allowed to live?

[Cold War Spook]

123. When my uncle came home after WWII,

he brought me a pair of lederhosen. I wore them as much as my mother would let me.

[MicaelS]

125. Fuck the dissenters.

She's a beautiful girl, and the dress is beautiful. Some people will criticize anything.

[HopeAgain]

128. Ridiculous issue of the day award

People are gonna wear what they are gonna wear. I would not intentionally wear anything that is insulting to another, but to make a huge deal about a high schooler's choice of a prom dress is beyond ridiculous.

I went to a high school costume party dressed as the pope. Would I do this now? no. But at 17 I didn't have a clue.

[JNelson6563]

129. The dumbest thing to cry about.

I marvel that there are people who have such comfortable lives that they get outraged over "cultural appropriation". lol This is a timeless, human thing. Since we wandered around as nomadic tribes we have done such. Any gathering of peoples would result in the sharing of ideas and the spreading of them. Fashion has been part of this since there has been fashion.

But yes, let's use this as another fine way to keep us all divided! Ugh.

[David__77]

130. I suspect that if the prom attendee wore traditional African dress, this thread might look different

...

[DRoseDARs]

138. Yeah, the picture would be different. The "cultural appropriation" complaint would still be bullshit

Complete and utter hogwash.

[Henry Krinkle]

132. David Lo Pan would have no problem with this.

Even more so if she had green eyes.

[img][/img]

[Blue_Tires]

133. Meh... Odd choice for prom, but nothing wrong with the dress...

Ironically, I've never seen anybody BUT white folks wearing that... The only Asians I've ever seen wear it were on TV or the movie screen...

[Codeine]

136. Somebody's mad because this young lady

knocked it out of the park with her dress.

[malthaussen]

139. So which is it, Jeremy or Lam?

There would seem to be an incongruity about someone named Jeremy complaining his Chinese culture is being appropriated (whatever that means).

-- Mal

[X_Digger]

140. Oh FFS. n/t

[pansypoo53219]

141. in the hreat words of the movie stripes- "lighten up, frances."

[BigDemVoter]

143. Shouldn't she wear whatever the fuck she wants?