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Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 06:14 PM Sep 2018

Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office

Source: CNN.com

(CNN)Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, seizing on an explosive op-ed from an anonymous administration official, said Thursday that it's time to use constitutional powers to remove President Donald Trump office if top officials don't think he can do the job.

"If senior administration officials think the President of the United States is not able to do his job, then they should invoke the 25th Amendment," Warren told CNN. "The Constitution provides for a procedure whenever the Vice President and senior officials think the President can't do his job. It does not provide that senior officials go around the President -- take documents off his desk, write anonymous op-eds ... Everyone of these officials have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It's time for them to do their job."

The hard-charging comments by the potential 2020 presidential candidate come in the wake of the stunning New York Times piece where an anonymous official raises deep concerns about the President and contends there were some initial conversations to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove the President from office. The White House has aggressively pushed back on the piece, calling the author a traitor and a coward.

The remarks are bound to spark a debate within the potential 2020 field about how hard to go after Trump, with some advocating impeachment and invoking the 25th Amendment and others acting more cautious.

</snip>

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/politics/elizabeth-warren-25th-amendment/index.html



The 25th Amendment remedy needs to go mainstream now!
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office (Original Post) Dennis Donovan Sep 2018 OP
Go get em' Senator Warren!! Power 2 the People Sep 2018 #1
He could shoot the proverbial man on Fifth Avenue - and these Rethugs STILL won't impeach. sandensea Sep 2018 #2
I'd just as soon impeach him the old-fashioned way Blue_Tires Sep 2018 #3
what would become of the Mueller investigation if the 25th amendment were to be invoked? diva77 Sep 2018 #4
the investgation would go on elmac Sep 2018 #5
Ugh! diva77 Sep 2018 #6
That may work for Federal crimes Fritz Walter Sep 2018 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author yuiyoshida Sep 2018 #7
They will do the opposite of what the more progressive part of the Dem. Party politicians say. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #9
Thanks Senator Warren for your strongly worded statement. jalan48 Sep 2018 #10
And how. rec, NT Mc Mike Sep 2018 #11
Would this give Trump Mme. Defarge Sep 2018 #12
How does a guy who won the Presidency without a majority ... marble falls Sep 2018 #13
"The root of the problem is the President's amorality." Fred Sanders Sep 2018 #17
The best distilled explaination of how cheetolini and we got to where ... marble falls Sep 2018 #19
The time to use the 25th was BigmanPigman Sep 2018 #14
Yes! Do it!!!! George II Sep 2018 #15
Yes! BlueWI Sep 2018 #16
There should be NO debate. This is a constitutional crisis. PatrickforO Sep 2018 #18
"if top officials don't think he can do the job." PSPS Sep 2018 #20
+1,000,000 This!! diva77 Sep 2018 #27
She has a point in that they need to put the country first for a change instead of their party which cstanleytech Sep 2018 #21
I wish folks would read the 25th before saying "we" should invoke it. onenote Sep 2018 #22
It won't work, and I wish people would stop suggesting it dansolo Sep 2018 #23
Technically, but 45 doesn't understand that. truthisfreedom Sep 2018 #24
It MIGHT work....but there'd be a lot of back and forth... Spartacus101 Sep 2018 #26
I think a lot of republicans would be onboard, they know he is ruining their party for decades. Meadowoak Sep 2018 #28
I hope people continue suggesting it. Over and over again. LanternWaste Sep 2018 #29
K&R for Elizabeth Warren! Rhiannon12866 Sep 2018 #25
Really! Get them on record whether they support invoking the 25th amendment... SWBTATTReg Sep 2018 #30
It is much harder and moere time-consuming to remove a president under the 25th Amendment Nitram Sep 2018 #31
The 25th amendment doesn't work the way people think eallen Sep 2018 #32

sandensea

(21,672 posts)
2. He could shoot the proverbial man on Fifth Avenue - and these Rethugs STILL won't impeach.
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 06:19 PM
Sep 2018

Hell, they won't even allow any real investigations to go forward or witnesses to testify, as long as they can help it.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
3. I'd just as soon impeach him the old-fashioned way
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 06:22 PM
Sep 2018

Since there are, you know, actual fuckin' CRIMES involved...

Ditching him on the grounds of incompetence/mental health is not only damn near impossible to prove, but it is the 'easy way out' for Donnie...

Fritz Walter

(4,292 posts)
8. That may work for Federal crimes
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 06:52 PM
Sep 2018

Not so much with state attorneys general prosecutions. Specifically, New York.

My guess is that he'd vamoose to Russia, where he'd be sheltered by his buddy, Putin. At least until he wears out his usefulness there. At that point, it's anyone's guess what happens to him.
Me? I don't really care. Do You?

Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
9. They will do the opposite of what the more progressive part of the Dem. Party politicians say.
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 06:54 PM
Sep 2018

It would kill them politically to do anything that Elizabeth Warren publicly says to do. So they can't, now.

This will have to be up to the Democrats, if there's a Blue Wave. Which it looks like may happen. If we also pick up a few seats in the Senate, maybe there's a chance. But just a chance.

marble falls

(57,246 posts)
13. How does a guy who won the Presidency without a majority ...
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 07:21 PM
Sep 2018

popular vote claim diminished capacity, particularly a stable genius with world class words?

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
17. "The root of the problem is the President's amorality."
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 07:48 PM
Sep 2018

"But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making."

Anonymous senior official

Amorality is "an absence of, indifference towards, or disregard for morality"...wow.

marble falls

(57,246 posts)
19. The best distilled explaination of how cheetolini and we got to where ...
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 07:57 PM
Sep 2018

we're at right now, I've read. Wish I could DU rec your post. A cynic surrounded by blind true believers. And a handful of ethical RW's are the thin line between us and disaster. Who'da thunk.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
16. Yes!
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 07:42 PM
Sep 2018

Way to go, Senator Warren! In this ongoing political crises, no legal strategy should be off the table.

PatrickforO

(14,592 posts)
18. There should be NO debate. This is a constitutional crisis.
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 07:48 PM
Sep 2018

The president is unfit for office. Period. It's time to invoke the 25th. There shouldn't be any debate because this isn't about politics. This is about the man occupying the most powerful office in the world being imbalanced and unfit to occupy that office.

If the right wingers don't like it, then f--- them. Bottom line, we have to invoke the rule of law or else we'll disintegrate as a society.

PSPS

(13,615 posts)
20. "if top officials don't think he can do the job."
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 08:12 PM
Sep 2018

That's the problem. To the "top officials" and the KGOP in congress, his only "job" is to sign every bill that comes before him and to siphon as much money as possible out of the treasury.

You may have noticed the same caveat in the infamous "anonymous op-ed." The author confessed that they still supported the "trump agenda" but was afraid only because trump himself might do something to interfere with achieving that "agenda" (see above.) That's why the author didn't reveal and resign. They are just as heinous as the rest of them. If putin himself wrote an op-ed, it could have said the very same thing.

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
21. She has a point in that they need to put the country first for a change instead of their party which
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 08:17 PM
Sep 2018

means they need to grow a spine and do their job as defined under the Constitution and remove him from office if they think he is unfit for the job.

onenote

(42,768 posts)
22. I wish folks would read the 25th before saying "we" should invoke it.
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 09:19 PM
Sep 2018

"We" don't get to invoke it. It is the VP and the cabinet that invokes it in the first instance. And there is no evidence that anyone in the cabinet, let alone the required majority, has any interest in going down that road, which would create a deep constitutional crisis because, like it or not, the 25th was never intended to apply where a president is able to carry out the duties of the office, but does so in a way that alarms many (even a majority) of people.

Trump is able to perform the duties of the office. We just hate the way he does so. But he signs legislation, he nominates people to fill vacancies, etc. Do you really think the cabinet members who he appointed are going to take the position that he wasn't able to do so or that their appointments were the act of an irrational person? Not. Going. To. Happen.

It's easier to impeach him -- and more appropriate -- than to dream about the 25th amendment being invoked to prevent Trump from acting as president against his will (and against the will of a sizable contingent of republicans in congress).

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
23. It won't work, and I wish people would stop suggesting it
Thu Sep 6, 2018, 09:26 PM
Sep 2018

The 25th amendment is meant for when the president is incapacitated. If he can contest it, then it takes a 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress. It would be easier to impeach him.

 

Spartacus101

(93 posts)
26. It MIGHT work....but there'd be a lot of back and forth...
Fri Sep 7, 2018, 01:22 AM
Sep 2018

Section 4 is the spaghetti ping-pong maze:

"Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

"Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office."

Gad.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
29. I hope people continue suggesting it. Over and over again.
Fri Sep 7, 2018, 08:08 AM
Sep 2018

If for no other reason than it's an additional mechanism of advertising trump's half-witted buffoonery. It casts doubt on his state-of-mind by those who might not otherwise care.

SWBTATTReg

(22,166 posts)
30. Really! Get them on record whether they support invoking the 25th amendment...
Fri Sep 7, 2018, 01:01 PM
Sep 2018

Yea or nay, we got them down on record...

Nitram

(22,890 posts)
31. It is much harder and moere time-consuming to remove a president under the 25th Amendment
Fri Sep 7, 2018, 01:45 PM
Sep 2018

than by impeachment. First the president gets to contest the charge and secondly, it takes a two-thirds majority in both Houses of Congress to override the president if he does contest it.

eallen

(2,955 posts)
32. The 25th amendment doesn't work the way people think
Fri Sep 7, 2018, 03:02 PM
Sep 2018

It does not provide for permanent removal of the president by the cabinet. I wish it did. If the cabinet says he is unable to perform his duties, he can turn around and tell Congress "I'm able again," and resume active office. If there is a conflict between him and the cabinet on that, Congress settles it.

It takes two-thirds of both houses to remove him.

Impeachment and conviction is the easier route.


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