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at140

(6,106 posts)
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:25 PM Sep 2018

The GOP tax cuts aren't popular, so Republicans want to do more of them

Source: Vox

Republicans are having a hard time selling their tax bill to voters — but that hasn’t stopped them from introducing another one.

House Republicans on Monday unveiled “Tax Reform 2.0,” a new set of proposals to stack onto the tax legislation they passed in 2017. The proposals would make the individual tax cuts contained in last year’s legislation permanent — they were scheduled to expire after 2025.

Read more: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/11/17845780/kevin-brady-republican-permanent-tax-cuts



More taxcuts for the rich. Crumbs for the middle class.
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The GOP tax cuts aren't popular, so Republicans want to do more of them (Original Post) at140 Sep 2018 OP
Pathetic gtar100 Sep 2018 #1
You know what they used to say about Ghouliani...a noun, a verb, 9/11? Well with repugs... brush Sep 2018 #26
And it's no surprise that people are underwhelmed by these tax cuts... SWBTATTReg Sep 2018 #2
Indeed. When W cut taxes people saw it right away. apnu Sep 2018 #5
Not, tRump got $200 million taxcut for himself! at140 Sep 2018 #10
The people I knew back then were delighted about the tax cuts. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #39
Ordinary people have already seen they are not being helped by the previous cuts Power 2 the People Sep 2018 #3
Working class people watoos Sep 2018 #4
Reduced withholding is a LOAN from the IRS - payable after the midterms. lagomorph777 Sep 2018 #15
T H I S Cosmocat Sep 2018 #18
here's the republican logic: unblock Sep 2018 #6
They dont lose support when they attack their own constituents, they know this. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #7
They may not be popular Soxfan58 Sep 2018 #8
Can you imagine the amount of guano coming out of Congress Sneederbunk Sep 2018 #9
My guess is their long term plan is to try and cripple the United States government thereby cstanleytech Sep 2018 #11
This is what happens when you live in the GOP bubble BumRushDaShow Sep 2018 #12
Because . . Iliyah Sep 2018 #13
E X A C T L Y !! nt at140 Sep 2018 #14
Guess they never heard the definition of crazy: doing the same things over and over expecting Texin Sep 2018 #16
Bad news in August, and for the first 11 months of Fiscal Year 2018 progree Sep 2018 #17
Trump & gang are spending like drunken sailors at140 Sep 2018 #19
Since only the middle class cuts are temporary, a bill to make cuts permanent would be for them. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #20
I would be shocked speechless if the proposed GOP tax bill at140 Sep 2018 #22
The fact that they would make the middle class cuts permanent... Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #23
First of all next congress & president can change anything at140 Sep 2018 #24
It's set to expire in 10 years. Not that far away. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #29
In just 26 months we could have at140 Sep 2018 #32
Not exactly, IMO. It's very unpopular to reverse a tax cut. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #33
taxcut received by middle class needs a microscope at140 Sep 2018 #42
The individual tax cuts are skewed heavily towards the wealthy too. nt progree Sep 2018 #25
Yes. But only the ones in the 2% and 3% cut categories... Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #30
True, the only "permanent" ones were the corporate tax cuts, maybe some for highly compensated progree Sep 2018 #31
I agree about the Lexus. The Bush tax cuts were that way. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #34
Yeah. I stole the line about the Lexus and the muffler from back in the 2001 criticism of the progree Sep 2018 #37
They're popular with the folks who pay for these politicians. paulrevere2018 Sep 2018 #21
Trump delays taxes, he does not reduce them. Cicada Sep 2018 #27
Trump is spendings OUR money like a drunken sailor at140 Sep 2018 #28
Trump Organization is a conglomerate, not a corporation. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #36
Any reduction in current tax payment is merely a delay, not a cut. Cicada Sep 2018 #43
The money for the spending is borrowed and added to the deficit. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #35
Yes, both progree Sep 2018 #38
Thanks. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #40
😂😂😂 n/t progree Sep 2018 #41

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
1. Pathetic
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:27 PM
Sep 2018

Tell me again, republicans, how your party is so great for America. I'm having a hard time seeing any redeeming qualities in your existence.

brush

(52,968 posts)
26. You know what they used to say about Ghouliani...a noun, a verb, 9/11? Well with repugs...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:19 PM
Sep 2018

Last edited Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

it's figure out how to cheat, then tax cut, tax cut tax cut.

That's all they've got. That party has no ideas.

SWBTATTReg

(21,649 posts)
2. And it's no surprise that people are underwhelmed by these tax cuts...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:30 PM
Sep 2018

Especially since the vast majority of us won't see any changes. I asked my other half if they had saw any better wages/pay after the tax cuts (I'm retired, they are still working at Home Depot), and they said NO.

And it's no surprise. I haven't heard anyone say anything positive yet about these tax cuts.

If they want to make a difference, increase the tax rates on the higher income brackets like they were in the early 1980s (pretty high %s for high income wager earners as well as higher capital gains taxes, economy was humming along fine then, and it seems like we had more money available that went further).

at140

(6,106 posts)
10. Not, tRump got $200 million taxcut for himself!
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:46 PM
Sep 2018

because the Trump Corporation tax rate dropped from 35% to 21%. The middle class needs a microscope to decipher their taxcut.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
39. The people I knew back then were delighted about the tax cuts.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:48 PM
Sep 2018

Even now, I asked my Trumper dad (he brought the tax cuts up), but the cuts for the working & middle class are tiny, with the bill being mainly for hte purpose of large tax cuts for corporations & the wealthy. He said (paraphrasing), "That's okay. I don't care what other people get. As long as I get a tax cut." He didn't know they were set to expire, though. He didn't say anything when I told him that. He suddenly had to get off the phone.

AND my dad thought the cuts were immediately effective. He was all happy with his tax cut for the taxes he'd filed this year for 2017. It was a shocker to him that the tax cuts don't take effect until 2018 taxes. See? They just don't know what's going on.

Power 2 the People

(2,437 posts)
3. Ordinary people have already seen they are not being helped by the previous cuts
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:33 PM
Sep 2018

but the Republican greed continues full speed ahead.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
4. Working class people
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:36 PM
Sep 2018

may or may not have gotten a small tax break. Employers deducted less from their wages but will they get the same or better return at tax time? Many people are going to be shocked when they get less money back at the end of the year.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
15. Reduced withholding is a LOAN from the IRS - payable after the midterms.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:02 PM
Sep 2018

And evidently most people have already caught on to that, despite the GOP's best efforts to hide it.

unblock

(51,829 posts)
6. here's the republican logic:
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:40 PM
Sep 2018

the tax cuts make republicans less popular, so they need to advertise more to stay in office.

so the first step is more tax cuts for the rich, to generate big campaign contributions from the rich people who benefit from the tax cuts (but don't call it bribery!)

republicans can then use that campaign cash to buy ads to convince the suckers who end up paying for the tax cuts to vote for republicans anyway.


crazy thing is, it always seems to work for them.

helps when you have a 24/7 propaganda network....

Eliot Rosewater

(31,065 posts)
7. They dont lose support when they attack their own constituents, they know this.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:41 PM
Sep 2018

When they are able to physically prevent most minorities from voting, that helps.

Sneederbunk

(14,143 posts)
9. Can you imagine the amount of guano coming out of Congress
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:43 PM
Sep 2018

between Election Day and the end of the year?

cstanleytech

(25,966 posts)
11. My guess is their long term plan is to try and cripple the United States government thereby
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:47 PM
Sep 2018

granting them a free pass to go back to times when things like child labor and debtors prisons were legal and where they can essentially become the next robber barons of the country.

BumRushDaShow

(125,842 posts)
12. This is what happens when you live in the GOP bubble
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:52 PM
Sep 2018

and think your deplorable base (except those in the 1%) has actually benefited from "Tax Cut 1.0 for the rich".

Texin

(2,580 posts)
16. Guess they never heard the definition of crazy: doing the same things over and over expecting
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:16 PM
Sep 2018

a different result. In this case, they're doubling down on stupid AND crazy.

progree

(10,864 posts)
17. Bad news in August, and for the first 11 months of Fiscal Year 2018
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:36 PM
Sep 2018

In my 4 paragraphs, I'm going to skip the August 2018 vs. August 2017 comparison, because of the timings of weekends and holidays -- the deficit nearly doubled, but when adjusted for the timing of weekends and holidays, its up 19%, still a scary number. But I'm not a big fan of 1 month comparisons, Rather, I'll focus on the 11 months of this fiscal year vs. the first 11 months of the last fiscal year.

U.S. budget deficit widens to fifth-highest ever, CBO Reports, MarketWatch, 9/11/18

... The Treasury Department will report final official numbers on Thursday, and they are usually very similar to the CBO’s.

... The big picture: The budget deficit is widening in a big way. In the first 11 months of the fiscal year, the deficit was $895 billion, which is $222 billion more than the previous year (that's a 33% increase -Progree). Outlays have climbed 7% while revenue rose 1%.

Corporate taxes have plummeted by 30% this fiscal year, both because of the lower rate as well as the expanded ability to immediately deduct the full value of equipment purchases. Individual income and payroll taxes have climbed 4%, as increasing wages — mostly, due to more people having jobs — offset a lower withholding rate.

Spending on Social Security and Medicare have climbed 4% as more baby boomers retire, outlays on net interest on the debt have jumped 19% in part due to a higher rate of inflation triggering more payments to inflation-protected securities holders, and defense spending has jumped 6%.

More: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-budget-deficit-widens-to-fifth-highest-ever-cbo-reports-2018-09-11?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo


I highlight the big jump in interest on the debt, since that comes out of revenues, leaving less to spend on programs. More on interest on the debt: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142154750#post17



at140

(6,106 posts)
19. Trump & gang are spending like drunken sailors
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:15 PM
Sep 2018

With record big tax cuts FOR THE VERY RICH and the military to reward the MIC who contributes.
So called conservatives should be appalled at the mushrooming national debt. We are already paying $365 BILLION every year for interest on the debt. That money could go to pay for healthcare for needy, college tuition for the deserving poor, food stamps for the hungry etc.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
20. Since only the middle class cuts are temporary, a bill to make cuts permanent would be for them.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:55 PM
Sep 2018

The cuts for the wealthy are NOT set to expire.

But wanna bet they'll throw some more giveaways in that bill for their wealthy donors? Hiding them like Easter eggs.

at140

(6,106 posts)
22. I would be shocked speechless if the proposed GOP tax bill
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:34 PM
Sep 2018

Has nothing for the top 1%. As you said they will hide them, and we won't find out until after the bill is passed by the lame duck House of Reps. GOP is well aware are all dead ducks after the new congress is seated in January. Expect lots of bills to fill their greedy pockets passed before mid-January.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
23. The fact that they would make the middle class cuts permanent...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:42 PM
Sep 2018

means that they are hearing a lot of complaints from their constituents about it.

at140

(6,106 posts)
24. First of all next congress & president can change anything
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:54 PM
Sep 2018

"Permanent". So EVERYTHING is temporary until next regime change. The current tax bill expiration for middle class is many years away. So big deal they will make it permanent. It is all just election politics.

Even the US Constitution is not permanent, although it is much harder to change than laws.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
29. It's set to expire in 10 years. Not that far away.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:04 PM
Sep 2018

Esp considering that the cuts for the corporations gradually get larger during that decade, and become permanent. Many Repub supporter don't realize this.

at140

(6,106 posts)
32. In just 26 months we could have
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:27 PM
Sep 2018

A new president, democratic Congress, and all Trump's laws can be wiped out. So all taxcuts, corporate & individual can be changed.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
33. Not exactly, IMO. It's very unpopular to reverse a tax cut.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:32 PM
Sep 2018

Obama's Congress, which I think was still Democratically controlled (I think), extended the Bush tax cuts, and then made them permanent, I think. Didn't they? That's what I remember.

If Dems reverse the tax cuts, people will run, not walk, to the polls to vote for whoever will give them their tax cuts back. Those who are swing voters or to whom the tax cuts mean a lot. Seniors on fixed incomes, etc.

at140

(6,106 posts)
42. taxcut received by middle class needs a microscope
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:47 PM
Sep 2018

to see how much it was. Both my working kids did not know they received a taxcut and reduced withholding. I had to point it out.

The middle class taxcut can be left alone. Those are the majority of voters. Taxcut for the top 2-3% can be trimmed. Most of those do not vote democratic anyway.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
30. Yes. But only the ones in the 2% and 3% cut categories...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:06 PM
Sep 2018

which are for the working & middle classes....only those are temporary. At least that's what I read in article or two on the bill.

progree

(10,864 posts)
31. True, the only "permanent" ones were the corporate tax cuts, maybe some for highly compensated
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:24 PM
Sep 2018

professionals that can file differently - I'll have to look that up.

The "individual" tax cuts that are temporary include (most of these overwhelmingly favor the top few percent):

* 2 or 3 percent lower marignal rates all the way up the income scale
* Phaseout of personal exemptions at high incomes eliminated, as is the reduction of itemized expense deductions
* Capital gains tax cuts
* Huge estate tax cut, by doubling the exemption
* AMT much cut - yes, the old AMT taxed many in the upper middle, but many more in the upper

The regular person got a muffler, the upper incomes got a Lexus.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
34. I agree about the Lexus. The Bush tax cuts were that way.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:36 PM
Sep 2018

I remember I got a $300 check from the IRS...that was the gimmick that Bush's team used to get people to swallow those huge tax cuts for the wealthy that added $1 Trillion Dollars to the deficit.

The current tax cut bill is a step toward a flat tax, IMO. It cut hugely the tax cuts for the wealthy, from ALREADY hugely cut taxes for the wealthy.

progree

(10,864 posts)
37. Yeah. I stole the line about the Lexus and the muffler from back in the 2001 criticism of the
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:41 PM
Sep 2018

Bush tax cuts. The Repukes are always smart enough (the ones in charge, not the vast majority of the idiots that vote for them) to give the bottom 9 deciles a little something when they give the Lexus's to the wealthy..

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
27. Trump delays taxes, he does not reduce them.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:40 PM
Sep 2018

He signed a big spending hike. That means he raised taxes, he did not cut them. He delays when the extra tax will be paid until after the vote in 2020, but his tax hike will be paid. The tooth fairy does not pay for federal spending. Taxpayers pay for federal spending.

at140

(6,106 posts)
28. Trump is spendings OUR money like a drunken sailor
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:47 PM
Sep 2018

He got his $22 million tax cut on his corporation. He couldn't care less about us.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
36. Trump Organization is a conglomerate, not a corporation.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:40 PM
Sep 2018

He stands to gain more than $22M in tax cuts.

The Trump Organization is the collective name for a group of approximately 500 business entities of which Donald Trump, the current U.S. President, is the sole or principal owner. ... Trump Organization entities also own a New York television production company that produced the reality television franchise The Apprentice.

Wikipedia

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
43. Any reduction in current tax payment is merely a delay, not a cut.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:16 PM
Sep 2018

It is true that his bill transfers liabilty for taxes away from businesses and onto others. Businesses will not be taxed on 20% of their income, for instance. That is a tax cut for businesses. But someone else will pay that tax at a later time. Overall Trump did not cut taxes. He delayed when the taxes will be paid. Hevraised taxes, overall, he did not cut taxes, overall. He did change who pays the higher taxes now. We do not know will ultimately pay the higher taxes. If demsbregain control the rich will pay thevtax hike. Otherwise the nonrich will pay them.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
35. The money for the spending is borrowed and added to the deficit.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:37 PM
Sep 2018

Not sure how it's borrowed. Borrowed from China? More bonds sold?

progree

(10,864 posts)
38. Yes, both
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:47 PM
Sep 2018

The U.S. government sells Treasury bills, notes, and bonds. Wealthy Americans buy a lot. The Chinese and Japanese buy a lot (foreigners own about 33% of the total U.S. national debt). Non-wealthy Americans own a small amount percentage-wise (I don't remember the number). Consequently, interest payments on the national debt go mostly, by far, to others than non-wealthy Americans. Those interest payments comes from tax revenues that could be spent on programs to help regular people.

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