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Fri Jan 4, 2019, 01:43 AM

Dem introduces bills to eliminate electoral college, stop presidents from pardoning themselves

Source: The Hill


BY EMILY BIRNBAUM - 01/03/19 09:27 PM EST

Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tn.), a vocal critic of President Trump, on Thursday introduced two bills to eliminate the electoral college and prevent presidents from pardoning themselves or their family members.

Cohen introduced the constitutional amendments on the first night of the 116th Congress, both digs at Trump.

“Presidents should not pardon themselves, their families, their administration or campaign staff," Cohen said in a statement. "This constitutional amendment would expressly prohibit this and any future president, from abusing the pardon power.”

The amendments are unlikely to pass since they require a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress and then must be ratified by three-fourths of states.

Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/423810-dem-introduces-bills-to-eliminate-electoral-college-stop-presidents-from

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Reply Dem introduces bills to eliminate electoral college, stop presidents from pardoning themselves (Original post)
Judi Lynn Jan 2019 OP
Stonepounder Jan 2019 #1
pnwmom Jan 2019 #2
iluvtennis Jan 2019 #9
ansible Jan 2019 #3
calimary Jan 2019 #13
MicaelS Jan 2019 #28
SharonAnn Jan 2019 #45
cstanleytech Jan 2019 #4
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2019 #33
cstanleytech Jan 2019 #35
Mopar151 Jan 2019 #5
iluvtennis Jan 2019 #10
SergeStorms Jan 2019 #8
calimary Jan 2019 #14
Progressive Jones Jan 2019 #11
calimary Jan 2019 #15
Bengus81 Jan 2019 #21
oldsoftie Jan 2019 #23
Blues Heron Jan 2019 #26
Merlot Jan 2019 #29
lagomorph777 Jan 2019 #39
Scruffy1 Jan 2019 #6
Progressive Jones Jan 2019 #12
Merlot Jan 2019 #31
mpcamb Jan 2019 #43
Tactical Peek Jan 2019 #7
calimary Jan 2019 #16
Bengus81 Jan 2019 #22
Woodycall Jan 2019 #17
beachbum bob Jan 2019 #18
watoos Jan 2019 #19
beachbum bob Jan 2019 #20
lagomorph777 Jan 2019 #40
Maxheader Jan 2019 #24
The Wizard Jan 2019 #25
InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2019 #27
Turbineguy Jan 2019 #30
Firestorm49 Jan 2019 #32
Power 2 the People Jan 2019 #34
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #36
Nitram Jan 2019 #37
TexasBushwhacker Jan 2019 #38
onit2day Jan 2019 #41
Stuart G Jan 2019 #42
Cold War Spook Jan 2019 #44
Buckeyeblue Jan 2019 #46
Scurrilous Jan 2019 #47

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 01:50 AM

1. I agree that Electoral College isn't working as the founders expected.

However simply eliminating it and going with raw popular vote would reverse where we are today. Right now, it is fundamentally he who has the biggest area wins. Eliminating the EC would basically say OK, the coastal areas and Dallas and Houston get to pick the winner.

We need something that more closely represents all the people, the low population areas as well as the high density areas.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 01:54 AM

2. No, it wouldn't say any AREA picked the winner. It would say all INDIVIDUALS,

no matter where they happened to live, had an equal vote -- instead of giving extra weight to the votes of people in low population states.

We would still be stuck with a Senate that will always do that. This would only affect the Electoral College.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:57 AM

9. Absolutely agree. One vote per person. President represents ALL, not an area

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:05 AM

3. How about something that doesn't screw over California in the process?

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Response to ansible (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:44 AM

13. Amen!

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Response to ansible (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 09:17 AM

28. How would getting rid of the EC..

Screw over California?

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 5, 2019, 11:43 PM

45. It actually helps California. Their votes would have appropriate weight.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:09 AM

4. Main problem with the EC is how some states lock them into voting whoever wins the state rather

than let them freely vote with their conscience.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:05 AM

33. I thought they were supposed to represent the will of their voters.

The person they are supposed to vote for should be the only one to cut them loose.

I don't want my vote to support some trojan-horse elector.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:40 PM

35. Yes but forcing renders their ability to act as a firewall to keep

someone out of office like Trump.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:23 AM

5. The Senate already has a bias in power to small states

There are more small states than large, after all.

The Electoral college, howsomever, is screwn . Raitos are way out of whack , prone to errors! ! ! ! Better we should simplify the "electors" into a role of reporting the actual vote totals from each state to the Fed. government , and making them responsible for the state count being up to standard?
Give then the authourity, when necessary, to enlist (many) suitable workers from the Federal Government to carry this out. Think of it as "in-service training" in democracy!

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Response to Mopar151 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:59 AM

10. +++++++ agree

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:55 AM

8. So it's better...

that sparsely populated areas get to tell the majority of the nation's voters, "screw you, we're going to overrule your majority"? That makes far less sense in my opinion . It doesn't matter where you live, if you're voting for the best possible candidate, and not making it a popularity contest, the majority of voters should prevail. It's bad enough that sparsely populated states get two Senators that equal the same number given to large population areas. A state with 800,000 residents should have the same political weight as a state with 40 million residents?

This sop to the post Civil War slave states is archaic and anti-democratic, and opens up catastrophic possibilities such as we're experiencing this very moment. The electoral college must be abolished. My two cents.

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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:46 AM

14. THIS!!!!

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:28 AM

11. Why should the city of Chicago's 3 million residents

have to get by on the same number of Senators as entire States with barely 1/3 that size of a population?

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:47 AM

15. This, too!!!

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 07:55 AM

21. No it wouldn't,every one gets ONE vote....

Just because a small amount of people decide to live in Western Kansas instead of California is THEIR choice to do so but shouldn't influence the outcome of an election.

One candidate in a state getting one million votes shouldn't LOSE those votes to their opponent who got one million and one votes. The EC would claim that the State went overwhelmingly for the candidate with one million and ONE votes which is BS and a LIE.

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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:06 AM

23. That what trump does, claim an overwhelming victory when he only won by 76000 votes. nt

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:15 AM

26. who cares where one lives? let the people decide.

You'll still have your mayor, state rep, rep, and senator to take care of your local concerns

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 10:45 AM

29. One person, one vote. Simple as that.

Getting rid of the electorial college with its slavery/confederacy roots is way overdue.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:52 PM

39. It IS working exactly as intended: to empower (rural) slave states despite their low populations.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:25 AM

6. We don't need an amendment.

We just need to get states to agree to cast their electoral vote for the winner of the popular vote.

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:30 AM

12. The right wing cannot, and should not, be trusted. nt

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 10:51 AM

31. States govenrments can change every two years

and republicans will take every advantage they can get. An amendment is the only way that the states can't mess with it.

republicans will just have to rely on their ususal bag of tricks: voter suppression and intimidation, misinformation, and not counting ballots.

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 5, 2019, 07:41 PM

43. "We don't need an amendment." 2 yrs ago I might have agreed. In this nightmare administration...

who the hell know what his appointees- cabinet, vP, justices- might do. Put it in writing.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:33 AM

7. One person, one vote.



What's not to like? That is democracy.


"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

- Winston Churchill


There is no good reason today why one vote for President in Wyoming should count as much as four votes for President in Texas or California. That is not fair.

As President Jimmy Carter said in a letter to Congress in 1977:

My fourth recommendation is that the Congress adopt a Constitutional amendment to provide for direct popular election of the President. Such an amendment, which would abolish the Electoral College, will ensure that the candidate chosen by the voters actually becomes President. Under the Electoral College, it is always possible that the winner of the popular vote will not be elected. This has already happened in three elections, 1824, 1876, and 1888. In the last election, the result could have been changed by a small shift of votes in Ohio and Hawaii, despite a popular vote difference of 1.7 million. I do not recommend a Constitutional amendment lightly. I think the amendment process must be reserved for an issue of overriding governmental significance. But the method by which we elect our President is such an issue. I will not be proposing a specific direct election amendment. I prefer to allow the Congress to proceed with its work without the interruption of a new proposal.



We should have listened to Carter before the debacles of 2000 and 2016.



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Response to Tactical Peek (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:48 AM

16. And This!!!

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Response to Tactical Peek (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:00 AM

22. Now you can add TWO MORE Pres elections to that list that Carter presented.....

Nothing but a RIP OFF to voters and will suppress voting IMO.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 05:30 AM

17. And prorate each Senator's vote.

Give their vote a proportional weight based on the population of their State divided by the total US population divided by 2 times 100. Each California Senator would have an approximate 6.25 share of 100 votes. Each Wisconsin Senator would have an approximate .781 share of 100 votes. The people would have fair and proportionate representation and the math would be simple. Note: The State and US population numbers I used are approximate, rounded, and used to illustrate the concept only.

Of course this in one sense would create a second body with proportional representation but, I could be argued that since the races are State-wide, the representation would be more true to the wishes of the entire State and not subject to regionalization or Gerrymandering and therefore a superior body retaining some of the superior status of the Senate. The Senate would/could become more of a "Council of Adjunct State Governors". Or something like that. Anyway, aint never gonna happen but, a person can dream, can't he?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 05:58 AM

18. a symbolic gesture, no chance to go any further than McConnel's inbox

 

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 07:06 AM

19. 2020 is fast approaching

 

and more Republican seats are up for reelection than Democratic. For something to grow one needs to plant a seed in fertile ground.

The Electoral College is outdated, every other country that holds fair elections goes by the popular vote.

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 07:25 AM

20. the sheer numbers needed to pass any admenment makes nearly impossible

 


2/3s of the House
2/3s of the Senate
3/4s of the States

we have to deal with reality, it will NOT happen, nor will term limits and all bunch of other constitutional base initiates. Conservatives will simply oppose any and all of them if democrats support them. Thats the world we live in now. The effort and energy has to go towards stuff WE CAN ACTUALLY CHANGE and right, now, at the Federal Level, their is ZERO, except symbolic votes in the House that will go nowhere in the Senate, no floor vote at all.

The only power democrats have is investigations and hearings in the house and perhaps some poison-pill riders on House appropriation Bills...thats it

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:54 PM

40. McTurtle's headed for the outbox.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:07 AM

24. Be carefull...Sometimes the shoe can be on the other foot.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:09 AM

25. The winner take all concept

is antithetical to democracy. Each state has the right to determine how its electoral votes are distributed. Demand each state have a referendum on the ballot that will determine how the electoral votes get sorted out.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:18 AM

27. Love it!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 10:46 AM

30. One thing that will come out of this presidency.

It will be easier to get rid of future trumps.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:04 AM

32. Thank you, Steve Cohen.

Fat chance that it will go anywhere but it’s encouraging to see action being taken this early into the new House of Representatives.

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Response to Firestorm49 (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 12:14 PM

34. +1

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:46 PM

36. K&R!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:48 PM

37. A purely symbolic move, but I like the gesture.

They are both worthwhile goals for the bucket list.
This is the DU member formerly known as Nitram.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:16 PM

38. I have 2 problems with the EC that are never mentioned

One problem is that it rewards ALL electoral votes from a state no matter how many voters actually bother going to the polls. Great voter turnout in New York? 29 EVs. Shitty turnout in Florida? 29 EVs. That is ridiculous.

The other problem is the winner-take-all system that the vast majority of the states means my Democratic vote in Texas is meaningless, as is the Republican vote in California. When we're voting for the highest office in the land, shouldn't ALL votes have some electoral weight?

NPR did an analysis and, in theory, a candidate could win the Electoral College with just 23% of the popular vote.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2019, 07:05 PM

41. The electoral needs to be abolished. It has allowed a minority to rule over the majority

 

It's also the only way republican presidents got elected

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2019, 03:49 PM

42. The last paragraph really sums it up...

"The amendments are unlikely to pass since they require a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress and then must be ratified by three-fourths of states.

Why? Because the Electoral College gives the small states..(those with far less population..like Wyoming, and North Dakota)..far more power than would exist if the amendments passed....Saying it another way. Wyoming and North Dakota are not likely to give up their power to elect the President to states with a large population..

..While it seems like the fair thing to do, Republicans in Wyoming and North Dakota are not fair...(The small states)....And that is the truth..OH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

.............REPUBLICANS DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BEING FAIR..........................................

I also like this 4th paragraph from another story about this from CNN:..................................................

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/constitutional-amendments-steve-cohen-electoral-pardon/index.html
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Calls to abolish the Electoral College intensified in the aftermath of the 2016 election, when former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton won the popular vote but lost the presidency when Trump won the majority of the Electoral College. Similar calls were made in 2000, when former Vice President Al Gore also won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College to George W. Bush. Both losing candidates were Democrats.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2019, 07:58 PM

44. If a person get just 1 vote more than the opposition in each of the 11 largest states by population,

 

and does not get even 1 vote in the remaining 39 states that person is the next president. As far as the Congress goes, the states with a small population controls the Senate and the states with the largest populations control the House. Not always, but pretty much so.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2019, 10:09 AM

46. The big problem is that the original concept of state's rights is flawed

How can you be a group of United states if individual states has the power to create laws that are in polar opposites of other states?

And the country should have never allowed states with such disproportionate populations. States should be less about land mass than they are about population. States such has California and Texas (just to name a few) should be made into smaller states, while states like Wyoming and Montana should be combined with other states.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:27 PM

47. K&R

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