Google resists pressure to pull LGBT "conversion therapy" app

[brooklynite]

Source: Axios

Google has so far refused to take down an app, already barred by Apple, Amazon and Microsoft, that aims to convince people that their same-sex sexual attractions are both sinful and changeable.

Why it matters: The app, from Living Hope Ministries, amounts to a form of conversion therapy, say LGBTQ rights groups that have urged Google to change its stance.

The app offers testimonials and articles and includes sections for men, women, young people, and parents.

More than 139,000 people have signed a Change.org petition calling on Google to ban the app, which has been downloaded at least 1,000 times. (The Google Play app store no longer gives specific download numbers but reports rough tiers.)

Read more: https://www.axios.com/google-resists-pressure-to-pull-lgbt-conversion-therapy-app-aa98307f-f238-45e0-84ff-5829016379d0.html

[ck4829]

1. Pull it! It's pseudoscience, it leads to the invalidation and suicide of LGBT people. It's torture!

All of those things and more.

[yardwork]

2. What the hell, Google?

[mr_lebowski]

3. The idea of this app doesn't bother me all that much ... at least if it's on your phone and you use

it, it means that you are choosing to do so.

Sure, some may be kids and their parents may've made them D/L it but they'd not have to use it one wouldn't think.

There does exist, folks, some possibility that there are 1,000 (out of many million) gay or lesbian people worldwide who desperately wish they were NOT gay and are looking for what they might consider help and/or hope.

Granted *I DON'T BELIEVE* there's any such thing as a 'conversion' ... but ... if someone wants to try on their own accord, with a free phone app (laughable, really, but ...), I don't really see why Google is out of line for letting them get this stupid app.

It's way different (to me) than people (esp. teens) being forced or suckered into paid facilities that make wild promises.

JMHO.

[dsc]

7. This is no different than allowing people to sell snake oil or other quack remedies

They are promising something as impossible as a pill that will let you eat what you want and not gain weight.

[mr_lebowski]

10. There's only so much dumb you can regulate against, no offense ...

I just think it you want to download the app, you shouldn't be essentially banned from doing so.

I didn't see anywhere it said it was a paid app. I assumed it is not, but if it IS, then my opinion on the subject changes.

[we can do it]

9. This is wrong on so many levels.

[mr_lebowski]

11. Probably. But I'd argue it's also right on a number of levels. YMMV, friend ...

If your argument is that 100% of people who are gay ... are conveniently joyously happy about that particular reality, I submit to you that you are incorrect.

Doesn't mean I'm suggesting there's a 'solution' ... just saying ... not EVERY gay person is ecstatic that they are, and a certain % may 'wish things were different', and may wish to avail themselves of what they perceive as a possible 'solution'.

Now, if this app is not 100% free, it changes my stance on the subject.

Let me be really clear ... I MYSELF, if I were gay, would be happily gay. I wouldn't fight it, I wouldn't care to. But I'm not 'everyone'.

You can find this 'wrong', but it won't change this particular fact.

I'll put it to you this way ... to be 'born gay, but wish you were not' ... is inherently not all that different from 'being born male, but wish you were not'.

Is it?

[we can do it]

14. Yes, it is different.

[RKP5637]

4. Yet another WTF. I have lots of those! n/t

[bullwinkle428]

5. I thought Google's operating motto was "Don't Be Evil". I guess I didn't realize

they've since added "unless you can make 30 pieces of silver off it".

[Honeycombe8]

6. Social media pulling apps that are legal is going down a dangerous path.

I don't want Google or FB making a judgment call on whether to carry apps that are legal, not deemed legally "hate rhetoric," or the like.

Conversion therapy is offensive. But as long as its legal and not deemed harmful to people, I'm not sure Google should decide on its own not to carry it. It would take a legal decision deeming it harmful for Google to have reason not to carry it. Google could be sued for choosing not to carry it, even.

So while I would agree that no carrying this app would be a good thing, maybe Google would take down apps for other things that I would want, because of petitions by other groups.

I don't think it's a big deal, one way or the other. But if these social media giants start making decisions on what the public should have, that's a dangerous road to go down, because their footprint is so large. Google doesn't have much of a competitor.

[we can do it]

8. ...."not deemed harmful to people."???? What the exact fuck is wrong with you?

[SkyDaddy7]

13. WTF?

Whats up 👆 with that? I would've bet a lot of money 100% of DUers knew better. Geez.

[Honeycombe8]

15. Thank you for your calm, high-level discourse on this topic.

If the therapy is not illegal, then I don't see how you stop an internet site or platform from talking about it.

I'm speaking of an internet site not being allowed to promote something that the law has deemed harmful/illegal. I'm not aware of people being forced to go through that therapy.

If it's not illegal (that is, the govt has not deemed it harmful to people, as a factual matter), then it goes down a dangerous path to allow Google to decide which things it will carry promos for.

Will it decide not to carry info for locations where women can get abortions in a state where there are few places to get abortions? Some would say that certainly is "harmful" to "people."

It's opening a bag of worms, when you let someone else decide what you should see or know about. That's what free speech is all about. The old saying is...we don't need free speech laws for popular things; it's the controversial things the free speech laws are for.

[Cold War Spook]

17. Have you bother to read anything on gay forced conversion?

You might want to before writing that you are not aware that it is happening.

[Honeycombe8]

18. That's not the point.

The point is whether it's legal. If it has been made illegal, I'm not aware of that and stand corrected, since that would change everything.

It's the flip side of, say, abortion. Can't you see that? Do you want Google & FB & Twitter to start blocking anything that is legal but which it thinks isn't a good idea?

Free speech protects ads for abortion clinics or any legal thing, no matter that many think the subject of the ads is reprehensible and horrible or harmful.

Unless there's something illegal about the place, like they are forcing people to go through their so-called therapy, there is no legal basis for Google not to run it. Unless Google starts making ad hoc decisions on what it thinks people should see or know about. And that's dangerous. That's why free speech laws exist.

Maybe Google will drop the promos. I don't know. But that's a slippery slope, is all I'm saying. The next time, Google may, on its own, decide not to carry something that you think people should know about, but which is controversial.

[SkyDaddy7]

12. WTF!?!? "...not deemed harmful to people"

PLEASE, I BEG YOU to educate yourself when it comes to "Conversion Therapy"!!!

"The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry finds no evidence to support the application of any “therapeutic intervention” operating under the premise that a specific sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or gender expression is pathological. Furthermore, based on the scientific evidence, the AACAP asserts that such “conversion therapies” (or other interventions imposed with the intent of promoting a particular sexual orientation and/or gender as a preferred outcome) lack scientific credibility and clinical utility. Additionally, there is evidence that such interventions are harmful. As a result, “conversion therapies” should not be part of any behavioral health treatment of children and adolescents."

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, The AACAP Policy on “Conversion Therapies” (2018), available at https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Policy_Statements/2018/Conversion_Therapy.aspx.

[Honeycombe8]

16. I know about it. See my other post.

Familiarize yourself with free speech laws, and the purpose of free speech, and the dangers of letting others decide what you should know about.

What Google was showing was some sort of promo by someone for their conversion therapy. Which is a horrible thing. But the place isn't forcing anyone to do it. It's advertising for a voluntary program.

It's not illegal. Abortion is not illegal. Being gay is not illegal. All those things should be treated the same, free speech wise, unless it's ruled to be illegal.

It's inconvenient, but even reprehensible things are legal. Free speech covers them, too. In fact, that's precisely why there are free speech laws. We don't need free speech laws for things we all approve of.