Japan to phase out nuclear power

[bananas]

Source: Financial Times

Japan will phase out nuclear power by 2040 marking a big policy shift and the first formal decision to retreat from atomic energy since the disaster at Fukushima 18 months ago.

The plan, which was announced on Friday, is opposed by business groups and has been questioned by officials from the US, the UK and France, and means Japan will join Germany as the second leading economy to turn away from nuclear power since last year’s accident.

Tokyo’s timetable is much slower than Berlin’s, however. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, ordered half her country’s nuclear plants to be shut last year and pledged to replace the rest with renewable energy sources over the next decade. Japan’s plan would give it almost 20 more years to accomplish the same goal.

<snip>

“The fact that one of the major nuclear countries is pulling out will not help the industry at all internationally – people will ask why,” said Daniel Grosvenor, head of Deloitte’s nuclear team in the UK. “Many countries took a pause after Fukushima, and they might do so again.”

<snip>

Read more: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f9961e7c-fe3e-11e1-8228-00144feabdc0.html

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[a geek named Bob]

1. sad

[bitchkitty]

2. Why is that sad? n/t

[a geek named Bob]

3. because most solar power is notoriously fragile

and it doesn't operate when the sun is down, or cloudy, or when the day is too hot.

cross winds can kill a wind mill.

Nothing beats an RTG...

[tama]

5. Solar Bioenergy

Solar exergy transformed into ATP-chemical bonds (http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/biobk/biobookatp.html), not fragile at all, can't beat the "solar power" that life as we know it is based on.

BTW Greek word 'Phosphor' means etymologically same as Latin 'Lucifer', "Light Bringer".

Uranium is no solution to anything.

[a geek named Bob]

6. Tama... a few points to consider...

1.) I've never met an engineer that uses the term "exergy..."
2.) ATP is kind of hard to turn into electricity...
3.) Uranium has been successfully harnessed into electricity via atomic batteries... ATP, not so much.

[daleo]

18. The key is efficient battery storage

It will be interesting to see whether the sustained commitment of technological resources of the Japanese society can solve that problem.

[a geek named Bob]

19. a possible solution or two...

1.) a gas pressurized fractal capacitor (up to 3 WH/cm^3. That works out to about 20 WH per cubic inch - that's roughly 8 "D" cells to the regular "D" cell.) You only need 1 ATM of CO2. (This way, we also use up excess CO2!)
2.) Micropore H2O2 fuel cells (Using the old Apollo style FCs, we get something like 33 WH per 18gm used. A micropore cell should be about the size of a soft drink can.)
3.) Flywheels with magnetic bearings. You can get up to 900 WH per KG of flywheel. (The only problem is that, when mag bearings go, they go bad)

Just a few quick ideas...

[daleo]

22. Those are interesting

I have often wondered whether storage via gravity has been fully explored, either by pumping water uphill for later use or other mass e.g. A power plant that used solar during the day to lift large concrete blocks, then released the stored energy at night by letting them slowly fall back to earth, driving a generator while doing so.

[a geek named Bob]

23. While that can be done for power storage...

It's not very efficient.

Still... You use what you have on hand...

I'll have to dig out the water flow books...

[bitchkitty]

28. Love it when you talk dirty. n/t

[a geek named Bob]

29. Bitchkitty...you say the sweetest things...

If you like my earlier little spiel, you ought to hear me and a few friends over Sunday geek-brunch.
Or the Tuesday night meet and greet...

[bitchkitty]

40. Oh, Lord! Sounds like heaven! n/t

[a geek named Bob]

41. I'll admit that it's a lot of fun...

Mind you, there's a few caveats...
1.) the glow in the dark beer is still in testing stages
2.) if you've got any piercings, I'd be careful around the capacitor-stacks, and the tesla coils
3.) the laser cutter is not for lighting cigars

[bitchkitty]

42. Don't drink, no piercings - can I use the laser cutter to light joints? n/t

[a geek named Bob]

43. There's TESTED beer in the keg, and we can turn off the tesla coils, should you wish to inspect them

As to the laser cutter to light smoking materials...

It might canoe the particular material...

LOTS of power in that cutter (It's a good 150 Watt IR laser.)

If you really want to light your "bound collection of flowers," do it old school...

I use an old blowtorch.

At the moment, the whole place has sort of a garage-band/Mad Max feel to it. It's fun!

New Haven is one of the few places I know, where you can walk out of the Amtrak station, grab a coffee in a disreputably fun jazz club/bar, go build a robot, and then get a good pizza, all within walking distance.

[Cal33]

32. Don't you think more efficient methods of using solar and wind energy

will be discovered through research? Every new beginning comes across
challenges, and these challenges have mostly been met and successfully
dealt with. It does take time, though.

Atomic power has been around for about 60 years, and is proving to be
very dangerous. Some think the dangers outweigh the benefits.

Also, small Old World countries have problems different from larger ones.
Japan is about the same size as California, but has 4 times the population.
Japan is an old country. The same applies to most countries of Europe --
too many people living in a small area. By the way, that's how our nation
was formed in the New World. Europe became too crowded, the people
simply had to expand into other less populated areas of the globe.

[a geek named Bob]

35. max power available is max power available

also, as to the issue of "too many people"...

I'd MUCH rather live in a city like San Francisco, than some podunk village.

Hell is a small town...

[Cal33]

45. Well and good, but the lives of people living in cities depend upon the

food that is grown by those living in areas with lots of land. We
have to think of people as a whole. We are all dependent on
one another.

[a geek named Bob]

46. I thought this was a conversation about power generation

and not philosophical questions about human ecology...

I'd bet a fair amount that a city could go self-sufficient, given some planning.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Yeah ...

I do not see moving away from a fuel source that has the potential of rendering large portions of our world uninhabitable and creates an ever increase amount of waste products that can do the same thing as sad. Especially, when there are alternatives like solar or wind that in a waste case disaster, might harm a dozen or so people.

[a geek named Bob]

30. RTG's are a proven long term dense power source.

Solar power is only good, if you're going to have really low density population centers (AKA forget cities).

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. You forgot to add ...

at the currect state of technology. As with all technological advances, once we commit to a direction, the technology advances to resolve most, if not all, limitations.

[a geek named Bob]

34. The max power available is an issue...

If we can somehow get perfect efficiency of 100%, then we get a max power of roughly 43 watts/foot square.

Assuming a home needs 1000 watts, which is about 1/4 normal, we need roughly 25 square feet, assuming no trickle charge for dark hours. Call it 50 square feet for the total. If the building has a foot print of 1,000 square feet, then we can have 20 families.

But we can't get 100%. We recently had a breakthrough, and moved up to 40%. That means about 8 families.

Am I making my point here?

[mbperrin]

7. Good for Germany and Japan. I only wish this country would be so intelligent.

Too much government money in the heavily subsidized industry which is the filthiest, most expensive, most dangerous way ever invented to boil water.

[grahamhgreen]

9. +1

[amandabeech]

10. My only concern is that, in the end, Japan and Germany

will return to coal, which is incredibly filthy.

Renewables will help mitigate the situaion, but Germany is too far north and too cloudy to really go with renewables exclusively, although it does have wind power.

Japan is also too far north and cloudy for solar, and I don't know if they have good wind power sites like Germany.

We are living in interesting times.

[mbperrin]

11. Cloudy conditions do not affect solar, which is why some of your worst sunburns come on cloudy

days, and anyone with a coast has plenty of wind as well as wave power.

My concern is that I live 30 miles from the only nuclear waste dump in the US, put there by bribery and deception and right on top of my water supply. Considering there has never been a nuclear dump that didn't leak, I worry.

[PavePusher]

14. WTF?!?! "Cloudy conditions do not affect solar"

WTF?

Please, tell us your secret.

[mbperrin]

16. Google is your friend. There are no secrets on the internet.

&feature=player_embedded#!

Real guy.

[PavePusher]

17. "still producing" does not equal "not affected by".

[NickB79]

20. Hey, 5% of nameplate capacity is just as good as 50%!

Don't go confusing people with math and shit.

[mbperrin]

21. Yes, just mouth off. Don't bother to check anything real.

OTOH, I'll just enjoy my 5.6 cents per KWH wind generated electricity.

[NickB79]

25. One of us needs to do his/her homework, and it's not me

http://www.sunfarmers.com/do-solar-panels-work-when-its-cloudy

If asked the question, Do solar panels work when it's cloudy?, the average person would no doubt guess that, well, no, how can they when there's no sunshine for them to work with?

Actually, that answer is partially true, in that solar panels aren't as efficient in cloudy conditions as during bright, sunny days. In fact, the production of solar panels is reduced by at least 50 percent on cloudy days, and may even by down to just 5 to 10 percent of what they can produce on sunny days.

[mbperrin]

26. So now you concede that cloudy conditions don't prevent solar panels from working.

Good. Thanks for joining the reality-based community.

[NickB79]

27. Wow, have you read anything in this thread at all?

YOU stated:

Cloudy conditions do not affect solar

My link clearly shows it does, sometimes drastically. No one here said solar WON'T work on cloudy days. What everyone has been trying to tell you is that clouds can SERIOUSLY reduce the amount of electricity put out by them.

Welcome back to reality.

[amandabeech]

36. I grew up in a very, very cloudy area. It does have wind, though.

No one has ever invested in solar power in the area, and I go back to the '70s with this.

Now, large wind turbins are going up, and more are planned.

Nonetheless, there is little belief that the wind turbines will replace all the fossil and nuke power running through the lines.

I stand by my original post.

[NickB79]

44. Eventually renewables will replace all fossil and nuke power

It's just that we won't be able to piss away electricity so wastefully like we do now. Hell, once resource depletion and global warming really take hold, we won't be able to use electricity on some of the VITAL stuff, much less the non-essentials.

But that's the path we seem to have chosen, unfortunately.

[PavePusher]

33. What you said: "Cloudy conditions do not affect solar..."

So you have now doubled-down on your moved goal-posts.

You need to either clarify what your intended meaning was, or... something...

[mbperrin]

37. Heck, I concede defeat! Solar is no good, wind is no good, the only good clean

power is nuclear, and the nuclear dump that just opened 30 miles away over our water aquifer will only make our water taste better.

Oh, and the electric company that charges me less than 6 cents a KWH? They must be fools, because they can't be making electricity from wind at all.

Better? Happy? Satisfied? Good. I aim to please.

[PavePusher]

38. That is not, of course, at all related to anything I said or implied.

You must need a chiropracter after all that heaving at goal-posts.

Have a great day. It's beautifully sunny here in Tucson, where my Air Force Base has a nice large solar generation field, and is installing solar panels on all new construction.

Time to go refill some growlers on my way home.

[warrior1]

8. Awesome.

[cyberswede]

12. Unlocking

Please see this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014226809

ETA: This thread has new information, so I'm unlocking it.

[bananas]

13. Thanks! nt

[marions ghost]

15. How could they do otherwise?

The lid's off Pandora's box. Those with any conscience &/or unfettered intelligence can see it.

"Many countries "took" a pause" after Fukushima..."

They'd like people to think Fukushima is over. A plant that can't be decommissioned for 40 years in a severe earthquake zone is not exactly "over." The contamination is not over.

[Overseas]

24. K&R. I was glad to hear this too. It will be challenging for them.

But I'm glad to see they will be making the effort.

[kgnu_fan]

39. They say one thing and do another... not trustworthy

All five candidates from Liberal Democratic Party (currently an opposition party but previously ruling party) say "NO (X)" to the question "Ultimately, do you seek "Zero Nuclear Energy policy?"

http://pics.lockerz.com/s/245181776