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Tue Mar 23, 2021, 08:36 PM

18 attorneys general call on Garland to close ghost gun loophole

Source: The Hill

Eighteen state attorneys general are calling on Attorney General Merrick Garland to close the "ghost gun" loophole.

The group, led by Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro (D), sent a letter to Garland on Monday asking for him to expedite rule making from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) that would treat unfinished frames and receivers the same as fully-finished frames.

The letter says that the loophole, called the "80 percent loophole," "allows criminals, domestic abusers, and other individuals who legally cannot possess firearms to evade common-sense gun laws."

"Ghost guns" refer to kits that can easily be purchased be assembled into firearms. They can be sold without background checks, and are untraceable because they have no serial number. The ATF currently doesn't regulate these kits as firearms

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/18-attorneys-general-call-on-garland-to-close-ghost-gun-loophole/ar-BB1eThES?ocid=DELLDHP&li=BBnbfcL

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Reply 18 attorneys general call on Garland to close ghost gun loophole (Original post)
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 23 OP
yagotme Mar 23 #1
AnrothElf Mar 23 #2
yagotme Mar 23 #3
AnrothElf Mar 23 #4
yagotme Mar 23 #5
granular Mar 23 #6
jmowreader Mar 24 #11
granular Mar 24 #12
granular Mar 24 #13
granular Mar 23 #7
yagotme Mar 23 #9
IronLionZion Mar 24 #10
ancianita Mar 23 #8
BumRushDaShow Mar 24 #14

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 09:37 PM

1. 80% receivers are, well, 80% complete...

They need to have the other 20% work done to them to make them functional. They are not firearms, because, they aren't, yet. A hunk of metal in the shape of a receiver. Milling/drilling have to be done to complete the process, then assembling them into a functioning firearm. That's why they're not classified as such by the BATF.

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Response to yagotme (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:15 PM

2. They should be banned specifically, then.

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Response to AnrothElf (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:17 PM

3. And if they go to 70%?

60%?

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Response to yagotme (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:21 PM

4. Regulate the manufacture of firearms

And prohibit the sale or distribution of partially assembled weapons. Specifically.

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Response to AnrothElf (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:32 PM

5. But the unfinished receivers ARE NOT firearms, per BATFE.

How do you regulate something that is not what is defined? It's a hunk of metal, until final millwork is completed. it WILL NOT FUNCTION as a firearm until this step is completed. Like calling a block of steel an automotive engine, and assigning smog controls to it.

The only thing I see from your post #4 that you could be actually advocating, is BANNING sale/distribution of firearms parts. The partial receivers don't even really fit under this classification, either. And, BTW, the manufacture of firearms IS regulated. If you finish one of these receivers, and want to sell it, by law you are required to serialize it, and abide by local regs re: sale of firearms.

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Response to AnrothElf (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:39 PM

6. Partially assembled weapons...

 

are not weapons.

under the law, there is one item of a weapon that is serialized. That part is the weapon, the sale and distribution of that is very highly regulated.

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Response to granular (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 12:46 PM

11. I am certain you would have no problem...

...with requiring rifle lower receivers and automatic pistol frames to be serialized regardless of their state of completion.

People don’t buy 80 percent lowers to turn into paperweights. They buy them because you can mill out the trigger well with a couple of pawn shop power tools and a set of jigs and turn them into guns...and the worst part is, the jigs are set up so that you can mill out the receiver far enough to install an auto sear, which allows full-auto fire. If people want to buy these so that they get the “full experience” of building their own AR-15, they can go to a gun store and fill out a 4473.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 02:12 PM

12. already illegal...

 

to drop in an auto sear, no matter how they acquired their receiver.

already illegal for someone restricted from owning a firearm to build a firearm, no matter how they do it.



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Response to jmowreader (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 02:21 PM

13. regardless of their state of completion....

 

and therein is the problem.

if it is a 0% receiver... it is a flat piece of sheet metal or block of alum. Now anyone that buys metal has to pass a background check for a firearm.

I get what you are saying that any form of pre-work that makes it "easy" to make a firearm would require registration. But that is already illegal if you cant own a firearm.


and let's face it, with today's technology, making a firearm receiver from a solid block of metal isnt exactly "hard".

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Response to yagotme (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:54 PM

7. This.

 

it takes quite a bit of effort, equipment and more than a little bit of skill to complete an 80% lower to make it usable to assemble as part of a functioning firearm. Not to mention more than a little bit of $. Cheaper and easier for those prevented from legally acquiring firearms to get them on the black market. 80% receivers are by and large the domain of the hobbyist firearm owner.


Also, it is always fascinating to me when politicians, from both sides of the isle, use an event like this to promote some legislation that has nothing to do with the event itself. There has been no statement that the firearm used was derived from an 80% receiver. But yet some are using this event to promote restricting their sale. I mean, why not use this event to promote legislation that would have actually had an impact on the tragedy? Like, advancing mental health screenings for firearms purchases or funding for better mental health services for all?

Take some direct, effectual action. It just boggles the mind that when presented with a problem that actions are suggested that have nothing to do with the problem. Sigh...


also... regulation required for 80% receivers? .0000001 seconds later... 79% receivers go on sale.

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Response to granular (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:57 PM

9. Your last sentence, exactly my point.

At what percentage are the banners satisfied?

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Response to granular (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:02 AM

10. They're reaching for low hanging fruit through regulatory agencies

since they probably don't have the votes to pass an assault weapons ban through congress.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 10:56 PM

8. Awww, afraid someone Y'ALL love might get hurt? Do background checks sound like a fair swap? Huh?

You legal eagles just gotta guard 2A murder with militarized assault weapons with all your might, but oh hell no to kits?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 02:36 PM

14. Here is my AG - Josh Shapiro's - comments




TEXT

Josh Shapiro
@JoshShapiroPA
Ghost guns are fueling the gun violence epidemic that takes the lives of Pennsylvanians every single day

That's why my office has made it a top priority to get ghost guns out of dangerous hands, and to stop traffickers of these weapons.
Chambersburg man arrested for selling ‘ghost guns:’ AG
Agents seized a handgun, 3 ounces of cocaine, and more than $38,000 from Noel Ortiz, police said.
pennlive.com
1:30 PM · Mar 24, 2021





TEXT

Josh Shapiro
@JoshShapiroPA
A synagogue in Pittsburgh.

A spa in Atlanta.

A grocery store in Boulder.

Every day in Philadelphia.

It doesn’t have to be this way. It’s a choice that some are making to do nothing in the face of this carnage.

Now is the time for action to combat gun violence.
1:20 PM · Mar 24, 2021





TEXT

Josh Shapiro
@JoshShapiroPA
We must take concrete steps to combat America's tragic gun violence epidemic. That's why I'm leading a coalition of 18 @DemocraticAGs urging US AG Merrick Garland to end the ghost gun loophole.
Pennsylvania, other states call on U.S. Attorney General to close 'ghost gun' loophole in federal...
The ATF’s interpretation allows 80 percent receiver kits to be sold across the country without background checks, Attorney General Josh Shapiro said Monday.
fox43.com
11:05 AM · Mar 24, 2021


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