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Thu May 27, 2021, 11:51 PM

U.S. Is Said to Have Unexamined Intelligence to Pore Over on Virus Origins

Source: NY Times

WASHINGTON — President Biden’s call for a 90-day sprint to understand the origins of the coronavirus pandemic came after intelligence officials told the White House they had a raft of still-unexamined evidence that required additional computer analysis that might shed light on the mystery, according to senior administration officials.

The officials declined to describe the new evidence. But the revelation that they are hoping to apply an extraordinary amount of computer power to the question of whether the virus accidentally leaked from a Chinese laboratory suggests that the government may not have exhausted its databases of Chinese communications, the movement of lab workers and the pattern of the outbreak of the disease around the city of Wuhan.

In addition to marshaling scientific resources, Mr. Biden’s push is intended to prod American allies and intelligence agencies to mine existing information — like intercepts, witnesses or biological evidence — as well as hunt for new intelligence to determine whether the Chinese government covered up an accidental leak.

Mr. Biden committed on Thursday to making the results of the review public, but added a caveat: “unless there’s something I’m unaware of.”

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/politics/coronavirus-origins-intelligence.html

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Reply U.S. Is Said to Have Unexamined Intelligence to Pore Over on Virus Origins (Original post)
SouthBayDem May 2021 OP
cstanleytech May 2021 #1
TomCADem May 2021 #28
Warpy May 2021 #2
Lancero May 2021 #3
Skittles May 2021 #6
Lancero May 2021 #7
Skittles May 2021 #8
oldsoftie May 2021 #9
Skittles May 2021 #19
Lancero May 2021 #15
Skittles May 2021 #18
forthemiddle May 2021 #12
Lancero May 2021 #14
Skittles May 2021 #21
Sapient Donkey May 2021 #20
Skittles May 2021 #22
Lancero May 2021 #23
JI7 May 2021 #24
LudwigPastorius May 2021 #25
Sapient Donkey May 2021 #30
apnu May 2021 #11
TomCADem May 2021 #26
Warpy May 2021 #29
speak easy May 2021 #4
oldsoftie May 2021 #10
speak easy May 2021 #17
bringthePaine May 2021 #5
Backseat Driver May 2021 #13
dalton99a May 2021 #16
TomCADem May 2021 #27

Response to SouthBayDem (Original post)

Fri May 28, 2021, 12:15 AM

1. To be honest I would not be surprised if it leaked from a bio lab in China because

a number of governments on this planet have foolishly dabbled at times in such things including the US.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #1)

Sat May 29, 2021, 01:14 PM

28. China's economy shrank 6.8% due to nationwide lockdowns at the peak of its Covid-19 outbreak

It would be incredibly stupid for China to purposely try to bioengineer COVID-19. Even if it released it in the U.S., it would eventually backfire and comeback to China, which is far more vulnerable due to its population density.

The real subtext is the lack of transparency in terms of the initial stages of the disease. We saw that in China with its one month delay after COVID-19 was identified as a new disease. Of course, in the U.S., we still have denialism and claims that COVID-19 is a hoax among right wing outlets.

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Response to SouthBayDem (Original post)

Fri May 28, 2021, 12:21 AM

2. If anything had consclusively linked it to a lab in Wuhan

and an accidental or purposeful release, Dumdum's team would have been shouting it nonstop.

I no longer care where it came from--sloppy slaughter of exotic species or an accidental leak from a lab. I care about how Dumdum and his team refused to deal with it because Dumdum thought it might make him look bad.

Funny how that fucking idiot didn't think 600,000 people who are dead from it wouldn't make him look bad.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Fri May 28, 2021, 12:32 AM

3. Honestly, at this point it's just being investigated to appease the Trumpublicans.

Of course, this will also rile them up against Asian-Americans, so... We're pretty much throwing them under the bus, to appease a bunch of racist, angry, white, assholes.

So much for supporting minorities, eh?

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Response to Lancero (Reply #3)

Fri May 28, 2021, 05:31 AM

6. um.....the origins of this virus NEEDS to be investigated

I mean, seriously.....we can't NOT do that because of what neanderthal Trump humpers think and do. It's amazing they even care, considering it is just a "Democrat hoax" and mask wearing is TYRANNY

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Response to Skittles (Reply #6)

Fri May 28, 2021, 05:40 AM

7. Remember how we lashed out at Trump, not that long ago, for his attempts to label it the...

China Virus? The Wuhan Flu?

Now we're actively trying to label it as such ourselves.

We called Trump a bigot - and rightly so! - for that. Now that he's out of office, we've decided to echo his tactics.

It was bigotry then, and its bigotry now.

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Response to Lancero (Reply #7)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:15 AM

8. are you seriously saying

the origins of this virus should not be investigated???

IT'S NOT BIGOTRY TO TRY TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:48 AM

9. Your point is correct & objective

And objectivity is something lacking with a lot of folks these days

The TRUTH should come out. If china had been up front with it from the first case, so much more could've been done. And thats just based on what we DO know at this point

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #9)

Fri May 28, 2021, 05:57 PM

19. even if the virus WAS created and released in China

that does NOT excuse an American president behaving like a racist asshole

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Fri May 28, 2021, 11:46 AM

15. So, you're ok with causing a outbreak of xenophobia?

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Response to Lancero (Reply #15)

Fri May 28, 2021, 05:55 PM

18. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

NO I do not support XENOPHOBIA but you cannot make decisions like this based on what the WORST of society thinks and does

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Response to Lancero (Reply #7)

Fri May 28, 2021, 08:37 AM

12. So you would rather never know the source

Than admit that the ex president may have been right about something?

That really sounds political. I’m glad your not in charge.

You’re ok with not finding the origins of about a pandemic that has killed millions of people because the other side might gloat about being right.

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Response to forthemiddle (Reply #12)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:33 PM

21. Trump was not RIGHT, he was FAR RIGHT

he is a sickening, xenophobic piece of TRASH- we all pretty much know the virus likely started in China but most of us don't use that as an excuse to promote hatred

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Response to Lancero (Reply #7)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:11 PM

20. There's a difference between calling it "China Virus"

and investigating the origin of it in a serious manner. Not to mention, they were claiming it originated from a Chinese lab without any real attempts at finding evidence to support the claim. They would have called it that even if there was absolute proof that it didn't originate from a Chinese lab.

If there were any suspicions that a virus like this leaked from a US lab, wouldn't we want to know? What would your stance be on an investigation in that case? Is there any reason why it should be different if it came from China?

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Response to Sapient Donkey (Reply #20)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:34 PM

22. excellent response

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Response to Sapient Donkey (Reply #20)

Sat May 29, 2021, 03:14 AM

23. That depends - Are we going to be ideologically consistent on the subject?

We called Trump a bigot when he claimed that the virus originated in a Chinese lab.

Now we're actively making those same claims.

Why should we have a double standard? Is their any reason we should be treating these claims differently, if it's Democrats making them now?

That is what I'm looking for. Consistency. It's the height of hypocrisy for us to start making the same claims that we only a year ago lashed out against.

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Response to Lancero (Reply #23)

Sat May 29, 2021, 04:53 AM

24. He was called a bigot for racism. These are different issues

if he cared about the origins of the virus he would have read intelligence reports which we know he doesn't do.

Instead he just wanted to point the blame to others for his failures . Regardless of the origins of the virus his own actions in dealing with it were a disaster.

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Response to Lancero (Reply #23)

Sat May 29, 2021, 11:57 AM

25. "..he claimed that the virus originated in a Chinese lab.

Now we're actively making those same claims."

No. No, we're not.

We are looking into where it came from and not ruling out the possibility that it was a lab leak. It's investigative science backed by data accrued from our intelligence services.

"Making those same claims" would be saying "It came from a Chinese lab", which is something no one in the Biden administration has said.


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Response to Lancero (Reply #23)

Sat May 29, 2021, 10:40 PM

30. If Trump simply stated that there were suspicions it originated from a Chinese lab

and that there is going to be an investigation, then that would have been totally different than stating it came from a Chinese lab without any investigation. The other rhetoric coming from him put the claims in the unserious category. Calling it the China Virus was childish and unnecessary even if it turns out it was from a Chinese lab.

I don't doubt that if somehow Trump and his admin managed to behave like real adults with regards to this by handling it the proper way as the Biden admin is, that some people would have still taken issue with it. That's just the world we live in.

We may find out that it did in fact come from a wet market or whatever, and there was no Chinese lab involved. We may find out that it did originate from a Chinese lab. It might even be inconclusive either way. But I feel confident that the Biden admin will only say it came from a Chinese lab if there is actual evidence of it, and that they will present the evidence. Trump made those claims without any evidence because obviously those evil Chinese people did it on purpose, or at least he wanted to push those thoughts onto his cult followers. Which put him more inline with the crazy conspiracy theorists who make claims about how George Soros and his other international bankers are trying collapse the US by funding migrant caravans, or whatever the theory of the month is.

Do you believe that such a investigation is bigoted/racist/xenophobic? Imagine Trump never happened and it was just Biden saying "let's look into this further", would it be a problem? Ultimately that's the most important thing, I think.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Fri May 28, 2021, 07:51 AM

11. Trump's team won't do that.

Obama and Biden had placed observers in at that lab and in the town because they knew stuff was sketchy there. But Trump pulled them all out and slashed their budget. So if things are linked to that lab, they will look like sloppy idiots just like the people at the lab who were messing around with this stuff (if the evidence links to that).

Trumpers, outside of the immediate circle did try to blame the lab but that was quelled. I always found that strange since Trump runs with whatever wild idea he has at the time. So why were they so careful to avoid mentioning the lab?

Surely not to protect US-China relations, Trump regularly shat on China in 2020. The only plausible explanations are: the lab has nothing to do with it and its obvious, or Trump screwed up with the lab and has blame here.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Sat May 29, 2021, 12:49 PM

26. Reuters: Trump Administration slashed CDC staff inside China prior to coronavirus outbreak

I think the real end game is actually to prod China into one again permitting greater access to U.S. CDC personnel after Trump slashed such personnel before the COVID-19 outbreak.

Biden has two problems. First, China is now resistant to letting them back in. Second, Republicans are going to argue that Biden is "helping" China by trying to re-establish such access. So, why not use Republican gripes about questions about the disease's origins to prod both parties to once again re-establish transparency and cooperation in the control of infectious diseases that Trump ended?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5

WASHINGTON(Reuters) - The Trump administration cut staff by more than two-thirds at a key U.S. public health agency operating inside China, as part of a larger rollback of U.S.-funded health and science experts on the ground there leading up to the coronavirus outbreak, Reuters has learned.

Most of the reductions were made at the Beijing office of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and occurred over the past two years, according to public CDC documents viewed by Reuters and interviews with four people familiar with the drawdown.

The Atlanta-based CDC, America’s preeminent disease fighting agency, provides public health assistance to nations around the world and works with them to help stop outbreaks of contagious diseases from spreading globally. It has worked in China for 30 years.

The CDC’s China headcount has shrunk to around 14 staffers, down from approximately 47 people since President Donald Trump took office in January 2017, the documents show. The four people, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the losses included epidemiologists and other health professionals.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #26)

Sat May 29, 2021, 01:31 PM

29. I think you're right about prodding them to accept CDC people

It's still going to be hard going because Xi is a nationalist and still smarting from China's ill treatment by Dumdum.

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Response to SouthBayDem (Original post)

Fri May 28, 2021, 02:20 AM

4. Geneticists do not think SARS-CoV-2 was engineered,

it is something that evolved in the wild - the question is, how did it get to Wuhan? One theory is it was isolated in the Wuhan lab, then escaped due to poor management. Well, here's another - over 10,000 athletes and officials gathered in Wuhan between October 17-29, 2019 for the World Military Games. It could have been brought in from anywhere.

East Asia has a reservoir of coronaviruses in bats, but how and where did this one cross over to humans? Unless there is some specific inside intelligence about the lab, it is an open question, and is likely to remain open.

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Response to speak easy (Reply #4)

Fri May 28, 2021, 06:50 AM

10. But so far this version has not been found in bats

Nor have bats been able to be infected with it in lab settings

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #10)

Fri May 28, 2021, 04:43 PM

17. No, there was an intermediate host, but it began in bats.

SARS1 cannot be transmitted by bats either. The point is, there is not one credible geneticist who believes that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered.

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Response to SouthBayDem (Original post)

Fri May 28, 2021, 03:20 AM

5. team up with AZ - they have unintelligent examinants...

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Response to bringthePaine (Reply #5)

Fri May 28, 2021, 11:44 AM

13. Why does The Count sound Russian?

&ab_channel=VariousArtists-Topic

Through about 01.11

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Response to SouthBayDem (Original post)

Fri May 28, 2021, 12:17 PM

16. Even if a smoking gun is found, China will say "Fake News"

specifically "Fake News made up by U.S. intelligence to make China look bad"

A scientific report that is not reviewed and signed off by reputable scientists will have zero credibility

It took 14 years to produce the evidence behind SARS, and we still don't know what caused many Ebola outbreaks



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Response to dalton99a (Reply #16)

Sat May 29, 2021, 12:51 PM

27. Trump says China "should have told us" about coronavirus. He removed the official meant to do that.

I think the Biden administration's move is designed to force China to be more transparent to try to re-establish access that Trump surrendered.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/23/21190713/coronavirus-trump-china-cdc-embed-quick

President Donald Trump loves to blame China for the coronavirus pandemic, but new information surfaced over the weekend that the administration eliminated a position last July that potentially could have helped the US get an earlier jump on a response to the crisis, suggesting the president may need to place blame a little closer to home.

The Trump administration told the United States’ embed at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that the position would be defunded, causing her to leave her post in July 2019, according to a report from Reuters’s Marisa Taylor. The embed helped train Chinese public health experts and served in part as a liaison between Chinese officials and their counterparts in the US.

With the administration planning to discontinue the role, the embed return to the US about five months before China began to see its first Covid-19 cases. Under normal circumstances, the embed likely would have passed information about the novel virus to US officials. Instead, Chinese officials were able for weeks to conceal the virus and the threat it posed, leading to a delay in the world’s response to what was then a matter of great concern and is now a pandemic.

When asked about his administration’s role in this decision during Sunday’s daily coronavirus press conference, Trump called on US CDC Director Robert Redfield to answer the question before attacking the press, saying, “This is just like the other stuff that you, not you, but the press was asking. We actually gave CDC more money, not less money — they said we defunded, it turned out it was more money. Every one of those things that was said were 100 percent wrong, and this sounds like another one.”

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