Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 03:20 AM Jun 2021

Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami Building Collapse

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: NYTimes via MSN

The investigation into what may be the deadliest accidental building collapse in American history has just begun, but experts who have examined video footage of the disaster outside Miami are focusing on a spot in the lowest part of the condominium complex — possibly in or below the underground parking garage — where an initial failure could have set off a structural avalanche.

Called “progressive collapse,” the gradual spread of failures could have occurred for a variety of reasons, including design flaws or the less robust construction allowed under the building codes of four decades ago, when the complex was built. But that progression could not have occurred without some critical first failure, and close inspections of a grainy surveillance video that emerged in the initial hours after the disaster have given the first hints of where that might have been.

“It does appear to start either at or very near the bottom of the structure,” said Donald O. Dusenberry, a consulting engineer who has investigated many structural collapses. “It’s not like there’s a failure high and it pancaked down.”



Explanations for an initial failure at the bottom of the building could include a problem with the deep, reinforced concrete pilings on which the building sits — perhaps set off by an unknown void or a sinkhole below — which then compromised the lower columns. Or the steel reinforcing the columns in the parking garage or first few floors could have been so corroded that they somehow gave way on their own. Or the building itself could have been poorly designed, built with substandard concrete or steel — or simply with insufficient steel at critical points.



Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/possible-failure-point-emerges-in-miami-building-collapse/ar-AALvJr3?ocid=entnewsntp



Interviews and reviews with a large number of engineers all saying cause can't be determined yet -- and that the issues identified in the 2018 report may or may not be that important to the failure.
6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami Building Collapse (Original Post) Sgent Jun 2021 OP
So, has anybody talked to the assholes who collected the condo checks, ignored the 2018 report, johnthewoodworker Jun 2021 #1
Many Florida condos are owned by the occupants csziggy Jun 2021 #5
We have a common trust in our institutions::: keithbvadu2 Jun 2021 #2
We'll hear an explanation eventually, but I suspect... Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2021 #3
I was in the Miami airport for 17 hours yesterday. The Jungle 1 Jun 2021 #4
After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING Omaha Steve Jun 2021 #6
 

johnthewoodworker

(694 posts)
1. So, has anybody talked to the assholes who collected the condo checks, ignored the 2018 report,
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 07:36 AM
Jun 2021

and did nothing while their building collapsed. Maybe those assholes are too busy planning their next failure.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
5. Many Florida condos are owned by the occupants
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 10:32 AM
Jun 2021

And the Condo Board is made up of those owners - think of HOAs in which home owners are board members.

Some of the reports were that repairs were almost ready to start being done based on that 2018 report but the cost per condo unit was very high, $20,000 to 100,000 or more per unit.

keithbvadu2

(36,787 posts)
2. We have a common trust in our institutions:::
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 08:39 AM
Jun 2021

We have a common trust in our institutions:::

Sometimes misplaced.

Our food is safe.

Our buildings and bridges won't collapse.

Our clergy are honorable men and women.

Our politicians are honorable men and women.

The free market will work efficiently and fairly.

The law is fair and just.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
3. We'll hear an explanation eventually, but I suspect...
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 09:43 AM
Jun 2021

... a design flaw will be to blame. I'm only basing that on some of the pics that I've seen after the collapse, which isn't much.

From your article:
"you certainly can’t rule out a design or construction error that has survived for 40 years."
One other clue that a problem started at the bottom of the building: Immediately before the collapse, one of the residents saw a hole of sorts opening near the pool.
Michael Stratton said his wife, Cassie Stratton, who is missing, was on the phone with him and was looking out through the window of her fourth-floor unit when, she told him, the hole appeared. After that, the call cut off.




Then there's this article about the design:
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2021/06/26/engineer-raised-red-flags-more-than-2-years-before-surfside-condo-collapsed/
Prior to that, there were concrete patching and epoxy injections, which repair cracks, to the concrete slab that supports the pool AND plaza above the garage – but it was “performed less than satisfactorily and needs to be completed again,” according to the report.



So where's a sturdy horizontal beam, like a steel bar, that collapsed near the vertical column in that parking garage pic? All that I see is a broken concrete slab that was reinforced with rebar! The rebar should strengthen it, but it won't support the weight of the slab itself!

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
4. I was in the Miami airport for 17 hours yesterday.
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 09:48 AM
Jun 2021

On the second floor in departures the floor keep shaking. It would be still and then it would violently shake. We were right above baggage handling. I am guessing something down there was making the floor shake.
No way can it be right for that floor to shake like that. I couldn't wait to get on the plane.
SOMETHING IS WRONG IN THAT AIRPORT BUILDING!
We departed from D43.

Omaha Steve

(99,618 posts)
6. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING
Mon Jun 28, 2021, 10:51 AM
Jun 2021

Opinion and analysis.

Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Possible Failure Point Em...