New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

[TheProle]

Source: Axios

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.



Read more: https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Moderna was shot into my arm.

No pain, no side effects.

[TheProle]

2. Moderna here, too

Some side effects, but I'd take them any day over covid.

[Texaswitchy]

4. Me to.

I wanted that vaccine.

[Farmer-Rick]

13. Just lucked into Moderna

But man each shot gave me a fever and sickness for 3 days.

I think Moderna tended to have more side affects.

But if this study is verified, then it was worth it.

[wnylib]

28. Moderna here, too, but my

reaction was so mild that I have feared that my immune system just did not respond well enough. After the second shot, just some back muscle aches, short (one day) loss of appetite, and a temp increase in tenths of a degree, not even a whole degree increase. Very mild tenderness in my throat.

No reaction to the first shot.

[appalachiablue]

76. I also got Moderna, & with both shots had no

side effects at all, nothing except a little soreness at the injection site.

I was so concerned that I looked online and found an MD who said 'don't worry about it' and posted the article in the Heath Section here.

I think my immune system has declined or something as well.

Years back, when I got the flu shot in my 30s and 40s, within minutes I would become spaced out and I felt a bit weak for a few hours, but had no typical cold or flu symptoms- chills, runny nose, sore throat or fever- Nada.

[multigraincracker]

31. I got lucky too.

Zero side effects, other than an hour extra nap the next day.

[Native]

49. I had Covid arm that lasted a couple of weeks - nothing took the pain and itching away.

I thought I was going to claw my arm off. Constant itching for almost 2 weeks. The only thing that took an itty-bitty edge off was Benadryl in pill form. Topicals were a joke. And I got that weird ass headache people who came down with Covid were talking about. Never experienced anything like that in my life, and I've had some kick ass migraines.

[Arresting]

44. Moderna too.

I had side effects, so did my SO. 2-3 days of cold/flu-like symptoms and a sore arm.

Here is the strange thing, the injection site was still slightly tender for weeks. But after a couple of weeks, unless you went looking for it, you couldn't tell.

And then about 9-10 weeks after I got my second jab, the injection site turned a bit red, got sore and flared up again for about 4-5 days. It was mild but clearly there.

I had a sore throat and felt run down at the time. (I have allergies, so this happens, but it could have been a virus.)

It happened over a weekend, and like I said, it was mild, so I never went to the doc.

But that was strange.

The injection mark is finally gone, but if I press on the area, I can still feel it. I wouldn't call it pain, but I can feel it.

I promise you I am not crazy.

[Rhiannon12866]

72. I got Moderna, too, the first one available to me, and I felt awful that night and the next day

I had terrible chills, finally went to bed to get warm, and the next day I didn't want to get up since I felt so woozy I was afraid I'd pass out. And I felt sick to my stomach, too. But I knew that I might have a reaction to the second shot, so I figured that's what it was and it was working. After shot #1, I only had a slightly sore arm.

I listened to Dr. Fauci, got the first vaccine that was available to me (CVS here in New York) and I was kinda tickled to learn that Dr. Fauci got the Moderna, too.

[Warpy]

3. Preliminary data have shown for some time that Moderna is more effective against Delta

than Pfizer is, one reason Pfizer has been trying to get a third booster approved.

A variant might come out in the future that Pfizer is more effective for, and Moderna will call for the third booster.

This is a new disease. We don't know what's going to happen until all the data are in. They're not.

[BobTheSubgenius]

26. We don't even know what the data points ARE at this point.

It may be that there is no data to gather at this time, because those questions have not yet arisen, but there may well be in the future. Maybe as early as the fall.

[Warpy]

29. Pretty much, which is why I said "preliminary."

Once they have enough data to start crunching some numbers, that can change very rapidly.

[BobTheSubgenius]

74. I was agreeing with you, not arguing.

What I meant was...we don't even know all the questions to ask yet. Probably. But maybe not. It's also possible that epidemiologists are really good at what they do, so they do know the questions, but the answers are just unknowable today.

Learning tiny bits and pieces on the fly, as I am doing, I know very, very little indeed.

[Warpy]

75. I'm never sure about that, this can be a tough house.

We're still finding out new and ugly things this virus can do, months after it has seemingly been cleared after a mild case.

[BobTheSubgenius]

78. In fairness, my phrasing could have been better.

You know how things you type sound perfect in your head....until someone misconstrues and you realize you had been kind of ambiguous, or at least not clear enough. Not by half, as it turns out.



PS...have you been noticing how little the side effects are being talked about? In some cases, they are devastating, and seemingly unending. Pity the "long haulers." Their fortunes are barely ahead of those of the dead.

[ananda]

5. Time to develop, get approval, and administer that booster.. is NOW!

Just do it!

[BumRushDaShow]

17. All of them have already been working on them

Pfizer - https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-study-part-broad-development

Moderna (booster for South Africa/Brazil variants) - https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-positive-initial-booster-data-against-sars-cov

Janssen (J&J) - https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2021/02/09/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-uk-sets-new-study-2-dose-shot/4447248001/

NIH trial for mixing vaccines - https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-evaluating-mixed-covid-19-vaccine-schedules-begins

[JT45242]

6. So what? Not the goal of the Covid-19 vaccines

These vaccines were designed primarily to prevent severe cases and death. That is what they are doing.

I took the shot knowing that I might still get Covid -- and as variants evolve I will liekly get Covid -- but I also knew that I would likely get a mild case.

No ICU, No Ventilator, and NO TRIP TO THE MORGUE.

This is not the polio vaccine. This is not the small pox vaccine. This is a different vaccine for a different line of pathogen virus.

Stuff like this will fuel the anti-vaxxer covidiots -- what did the Mayo clinic find in terms of severe cases? Ventilator usage? Deaths? That SHOULD BE THE HEADLINE!

[TheProle]

9. I can see you feel strongly about this

but there is no reason we cannot rationally discuss downgrades in efficacy without being accused of feeding red-meat to the anti-vaxx crowd.

If it makes Pfizer recipients a bit more cautious and spares them even a milder breakthrough case, that is good information to have.

[BobTheSubgenius]

27. And a good enough effect to make the exercise well worth it, IMO.

[Duppers]

65. Indeed.

Imo too.

[BobTheSubgenius]

73. Good. Always nice to have people agree. :D

[Blues Heron]

11. not sure where you got that the vaccines were designed that way

do you have a link?

[PSPS]

23. Sorry, you have been misinformed

Vaccines are never "designed primarily to prevent severe cases and death." That would be a palliative. Nevertheless, even if you get a breakthrough infection, the vaccine will, as you correctly state, prevent severe side effects and death in at least 99% of cases.

Your takeaway here seems to be that, as a vaccinated person, you can go about your business as if "it all over." Well, it isn't. If you do get a breakthrough infection from which you suffer minor, if any, side effects, you can still:

1. Spread the virus to others; and,
2. Be susceptible to long-haul effects with cardio, brain fog, etc.

[Major Nikon]

48. ...

mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2 were originally designed, tested, and proven to reduce the burden of symptomatic disease, hospitalization, and death related to SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

[NullTuples]

32. Considering how each wave results in new mutations...

The mRNA vaccines are doing amazingly good.

[DemocraticPatriot]

7. Glad I got moderna, although I just took what they gave me.

Even so, this particular study found that the moderna vac was only 76% effective against Delta during the month of July (with a higher rate of effectiveness over the course of the entire study).

The article is worth reading.

It all just shows that masks are still necessary to try to control the spread of these variants. Even though vaccinated people are very unlikely to become seriously ill or hospitalized if they still catch the virus, they can still spread it if they catch it-- and may be less likely to suspect that they even have it, due to having been vaccinated.

[milestogo]

52. Same here.

[BumRushDaShow]

54. "Even so, this particular study found that the moderna vac was only 76% effective against Delta"

Considering the track record with the annual flu shots with a hope to try to get 60% efficacy (where on average it runs in the 40-50% range often due to missing the actual flavor du jour of circulating Influenza A/B viruses), "76%" against a virus far more lethal than the flu, is truly miraculous.

But I agree that every level of mitigation will minimize spread.

[rkleinberger]

8. This study contradicts other studies level of durability including that of Pfizer

We will have to see how it is peer reviewed. Pfizer and other studies show that is is effective against the variant including new data from Pfizer saying that a third dose actually neutralizes the variant and two doses maintain robust protection. I am not yet buying the 42% figure.

[TheProle]

10. "I am not yet buying the 42% figure. "

Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but if it's sufficient to warrant concern from the Biden administration, I will treat it with seriousness.

[wnylib]

30. Agree. Also, this study of effectiveness

was done by a third party. Pfizer released figures from its own study of its own vacccine.

[IronLionZion]

12. The article says dosing is the likely difference

Moderna is given in a higher dose and a larger gap in between shots.

I got Moderna and never stopped masking. Even in my gym whose old A/C has been weak all summer long I still was often the only one wearing a mask before DC reinstated the mask mandate.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. I think this is why Pfizer all but begged

to allow a booster back in April, and they were summarily dismissed.

Since their trials are utilizing people from around the world and they had been trialing for almost a year, they were probably seeing what was happening in other countries with their trial recipients as Delta started hitting, and how others were tolerating exposures to other variants after the 6 month point.

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months

Published Thu, Apr 15 20211:23 PM EDT Updated Thu, Apr 15 20213:13 PM EDT
Berkeley Lovelace Jr.


Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1. Bourla said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role,” he told CNBC’s Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health.

“It is extremely important to suppress the pool of people that can be susceptible to the virus,” Bourla said. The comment comes after Johnson & Johnson CEO Alex Gorsky told CNBC in February that people may need to get vaccinated against Covid-19 annually, just like seasonal flu shots. Researchers still don’t know how long protection against the virus lasts once someone has been fully vaccinated.

Pfizer said earlier this month that its Covid-19 vaccine was more than 91% effective at protecting against the coronavirus and more than 95% effective against severe disease up to six months after the second dose. Moderna’s vaccine, which uses technology similar to Pfizer’s, was also shown to be highly effective at six months.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

[totodeinhere]

59. No, this is not why. Back in April the results of this study has not been published yet.

So Pfizer could not have possibly known about the results of this study. This study had nothing to do with Pfizer's position on booster shots.

[BumRushDaShow]

62. I'm not talking about the OP study

I'm talking about their own trial data.

They have been "officially" trialing their current candidate vaccine since at least May 2020 (with Phase III starting around the end of July 2020). Literally around the world with tens of thousands of participants.

[totodeinhere]

63. When you said "this is why" I assumed you were talking about the OP study.

After all, the OP study is what this thread is discussing.

[BumRushDaShow]

64. The OP study is verifying what others have been finding regarding potential drop off

E.g., the oft-quoted "Israeli study". But you knew that, right?

Pfizer to Seek OK for COVID Vaccine Booster Targeting Delta
By Damian McNamara


July 8, 2021 -- Pfizer announced Thursday that it will seek FDA authorization for a booster shot of its COVID-19 vaccine as the company acknowledges its two-dose vaccine has shown waning effectiveness against the Delta variant. In a statement, the company said it will seek authorization in August and will release more data first, CNN reported.

"As seen in real world data released from the Israel Ministry of Health, vaccine efficacy in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease has declined six months post-vaccination, although efficacy in preventing serious illnesses remains high," the statement said, according to multiple news outlets.

Israeli officials are reporting a 30% decrease in the effectiveness of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine to prevent infection and mild to moderate cases. At the same time, however, protection against hospitalization and severe illness remains robust.

The country's Ministry of Health data shows high levels of circulating Delta variant and a relaxation of public health measures in early June led to a drop in the vaccine's prevention of "breakthrough" cases from 94% to 64% in recent weeks.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210708/delta-variant-dents-pfizer-vaccine-effectiveness-in-israel

[truthisfreedom]

15. But it keeps you out of the hospital.

Even if you may spread it further.

[Fiendish Thingy]

16. From the Axios article:

Yes, but: There has been no data so far that has found either vaccine's protection against severe disease and death is significantly less against Delta, and the study notes that there doesn't appear to be much of a difference in complications stemming from breakthrough infections based on which vaccine someone got.

And experts cautioned against rushing to conclusions.
“This is the kind of surprising finding that needs confirmation before we should accept its validity," said Cornell virologist John Moore.

[peoli]

18. Coaxin from India is effective against Delta and is about to get WHO approval

US has been dragging its feet on approving it and it's absurd that cases are going up when there is a vaccine that is more effective against Delta than the three that everyone talks about but we can't have it. Why?

[IronLionZion]

41. Because India needs it?

The US has plenty of vaccines and Novavax is another American one that has shown good efficacy but likely won't get emergency use authorization here since other countries need it more.

[peoli]

68. It's not mRNA and is effective against Delta. Fauci knows all about it

[JI7]

70. So if we already got the approved Vaccines can we still take this one ?

[JI7]

67. Is that what Modi got ? And why he hasn't gotten infected yet

despite going out in crowds without a mask .

[peoli]

69. Yes Modi got the first and second dose of covaxin

[JI7]

71. It's just one case so you can't go on that alone

but it sure doesn't hurt that he hasn't even gotten a little sick while going out in large crowds without a mask while many people were getting infected and dying .

[Bayard]

19. 42%!

That makes me nervous!

[salin]

50. Very.

Very nervous.

On edit: I am doing fast reads - and really needed to see some of the comments down thread, and go back and read the original.

Not so nervous per my above comments.

[Duppers]

66. From Yale U., for what it's worth...

Aug. 9, 2021

A Public Health England analysis (in a preprint that has not yet been peer-reviewed) showed that at least two vaccines are effective against Delta. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88% effective against symptomatic disease and 96% effective against hospitalization from Delta in the studies, while Oxford-AstraZeneca (which is not an mRNA vaccine) was 60% effective.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-covid

So...

[dalton99a]

20. Kick

The occurrence of breakthrough infections and reports of diminished neutralization of emergent variants by vaccine-elicited sera mandate the continual monitoring of the comparative effectiveness and durability of COVID-19 vaccines.8,9 Overall, we find that in our study population from Minnesota, both vaccines strongly reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19, but individuals vaccinated with mRNA-1273 were about half as likely to experience breakthrough infections as individuals vaccinated with BNT162b2. This relative risk reduction conferred by mRNA-1273 was also observed in other states, including in Florida during a recent COVID-19 outbreak. The effectiveness of both vaccines, particularly BNT162b2, was lower in July compared to prior months. Finally, the rates of complications experienced by patients with breakthrough infections were similar between those vaccinated with mRNA-1273 or BNT162b2.

mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2 were originally designed, tested, and proven to reduce the burden of symptomatic disease, hospitalization, and death related to SARS-CoV-2 infection. This study further supports the effectiveness of both vaccines in doing so, even despite the evolution of more transmissible viral variants. It is important to realize that most vaccines are not 100% effective, particularly against asymptomatic infections. For example, the estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccines has ranged from 19-60% over the past decade.16 While COVID-19 mRNA vaccines have been shown to be drastically more effective than this, the occurrence of breakthrough infections is indeed still expected. We observed a pronounced reduction in the effectiveness of BNT162b2 coinciding with the surging prevalence of the Delta variant in the United States, but this temporal association does not imply causality, and there are likely several factors contributing to changes in vaccine effectiveness over time. Consistent with our findings, a previous test-negative case-control study found that full vaccination with BNT162b2 was less effective in preventing symptomatic infection with the Delta variant (88.0%, 95% CI: 85-90.1%) than with the Alpha variant (93.7%, 95% CI: 91.6-95.3%), although it was highly effective against both.17

Several factors could contribute to the observed differences in effectiveness of mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2. Although both are nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccines encoding the prefusion stabilized SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein, there are differences in the vaccination regimen and formulation.18,19 BNT162b2 is administered as 30?g/0.3mL (100 ?g/mL) doses 21 days apart20 and the Moderna vaccine is administered as 100?g/0.5mL (200 ?g/mL) doses 28 days apart.21 Assuming similar sized constructs, this means that each mRNA-1273 dose provides three times more mRNA copies of the Spike protein than BNT162b2, which could result in more effective priming of the immune response. There has not been a head-to-head comparison of the neutralizing antibody titers elicited by BNT162b2 versus mRNA-1273, but such a study could provide important context for our results. Certain adverse effects, such as myalgia and arthralgia, were observed more frequently after vaccination with mRNA-1273 than BNT162b2 in their respective clinical trials, and it can be speculated that this increased reactogenicity is paralleled by increased immunogenicity.3,4 Furthermore, there are differences in the lipid composition of the nanoparticles used for packaging the mRNA content of mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2. BNT162b2 has a lipid nanoparticle composed of ALC-0315, ALC-0159, distearolyphosphatidycholine (DSPC), and cholesterol whereas the lipid nanoparticle of mRNA-1273 is composed of SM-102, PEG-DMG, DSPC, and cholesterol.22 The structures of the cationic lipids (ALC-0315 and SM-102) in each formulation are shown in Figure S5.

There are some limitations of this study. First, these cohorts are not demographically representative of the American population (Table 1, Table S1), which may limit the generalizability of our findings. Similar real world clinical studies on larger and more diverse populations from various health systems are needed to more robustly compare the effectiveness of mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2. Second, although this study accounts for geographic variability by matching individuals from the same state, these conclusions should continue to be tested longitudinally throughout the United States and globally. Third, it is possible that our vaccine effectiveness estimates are impacted by unknown exposure risk variables which were missed in the matching procedure, although the similar risks for infection, hospitalization, ICU admission, and death in the week following the first dose suggest that all of the compared cohorts had similar baseline risks for the defined outcomes at the time of study enrollment. Finally, while we did observe a recent reduction in vaccine effectiveness in July, we did not analyze the risk of infection relative to the date of vaccination. The reduced effectiveness could be due to waning immunity over time, the dynamic landscape of SARS-CoV-2 variants, or other factors that were not considered here.

[Scrivener7]

21. I got Moderna, but I got it very early. I really hope they figure out the booster soon.

[Deminpenn]

22. Pfizer is tracking its clinical trial participants

Betting they're monitoring anti-body levels. Further, Pfizer just said they do not plan to update their formula specifically for the delta mutation.

[Evolve Dammit]

24. Very bad news when the kids going back unmasked, un-distanced and only a minority of those 12 and

over vaccinated. Looks like a recipe for an explosion. And then they bring it home. Damn.

[Jon King]

25. This study is about infection, not hospitalizations or deaths.

Important to have the entire picture. This study measured those infected but showed no difference in number of people actually getting sick. And even the infection part still must be peer reviewed.

Bottom line is both Moderna and Pfizer will keep people from getting very sick.

The study says : "Yes, but: There has been no data so far that has found either vaccine's protection against severe disease and death is significantly less against Delta, and the study notes that there doesn't appear to be much of a difference in complications stemming from breakthrough infections based on which vaccine someone got."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Exactly. . . . nt

[salin]

51. That makes sense, and is consistent with what I have read.

Thanks for posting this.

[NNadir]

33. It is, in fact, should this concern be real, relatively straight...

...foreword to adjust the sequences of RNA vaccines to address variants.

I don't think anyone really grasps the power of this novel technological advance, which was ready at just the right time after decades of work.

The bigger issue in the scale up of these vaccines was developing a robust industrial lipid infrastructure; this has been accomplished.

The other big issue is of course ignorance. As long as there is a viral reservoir, mutants will evolve. We can however race against these.

Panic is ill advised.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. +1 on all your points. . . . nt

[h2ebits]

37. Thank you for your thoughtful & sensible advice.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. +2

I did +2, because Bernardo got +1.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. That is a SCARE HEADLINE. Here's why:

It's 72% Moderna and 42% for Pfizer against INFECTIONS. The vaccines still greatly reduce hopitaliazations, and further reduce ventilations, and further reduce cessations (DEATH).

The people who need to be really scared are the UNVACCINATED, who will get infected by non-mask wearing vaccinated people and by each other. Especially the latter.

Expect death tolls to start increasing very soon, since they lag infections, lag tested infections, and lag hospitalizations, all of which are rising.

[secondwind]

39. You are 100% correct.

[wiggs]

45. Agree with your points, except it's hard to conclude that erring on the

side of scaring a bit too much is worse than under representing the challenge during a very dangerous global pandemic. I'm fine with blunt headlines that grab attention and promote further reading and research.

there should have been more alarming headlines from the beginning, even if 100% accuracy isn't achieved. Even if some prove wrong...because the way to lose the battle is to wait for certainty.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. Problem is that the scare is that maybe "vaccines don't work! See!" except they do

Antivaxers seize on anything and amplify. We don't need profit-oriented media helping them because of the sensationalism.

[Arresting]

56. But you don't want to get infected, period . . .

I realize that there is still great protection against hospitalization and death, but that's a low bar in my opinion.

I have a few friends who got mild COVID and a couple of them are long-haulers.

You do not want that. Even mildly. (And yes studies who that if you are vaccinated and show symptoms you can still become a long hauler.)

I don't want to send the rest of my life, or even the next few years, struggling with a chronic illness.

Be careful, people.

(And I'm happy I sought out Moderna for my SO and myself. I did so because they were already in clinical trials for several variants, and that seemed super smart to me. Also because it had a longer period between jabs.).

[Bernardo de La Paz]

57. Period. I'm double vaccinated but wear mask in stores even though case loads very low this region.nt

[oldsoftie]

77. And yet I just had a "discussion" with a NURSE about the "failure" of the vaccine

And she's complaining that in Oct she'll be "out of a job" because one of our local hospitals is mandating vaccination by then. She insists that the vaccines are making it worse.
I may have gotten a bit harsh when i said "maybe its best for everyone if you do find another line of work"

[secondwind]

38. Perhaps efficacy is diminished because we are now with DELTA, not Covid. As the virus mutates, it

gets stronger and more deadly. We NEED to keep this in mind.

[inthewind21]

43. Delta

Is COVID.

[cilla4progress]

40. Husband and I are participating in a trial

and both got Pfizer.

Just had our swab and blood draw today. We get to check results by about Friday (antibodies, etc.).

[wiggs]

42. Not panic-worthy: Technically, don't all vaccines have nearly 0% efficacy against

infection? Vaccines defeat the virus AFTER infection, right? Vaccinated and unvaccinated may both be exposed to virus, but in the case of the vaccinated the immune system mounts a defense...with T cells combining with quicker B cell response to squash the invasion (if your immune system is in good shape). This may be quick or it may take a bit. In the meantime you're infected and in some cases have high viral loads in mouth and nose, able to transmit. I believe the longer time since immunization, the more we rely on immune memory, T cells, since there are fewer ready-to-act B cells already circulating.

Not in medicine, obviously, but this is my understanding. Please correct if mistaken...but it makes sense to me that there is SOME amount of infection that takes place in everyone before immune response either wins or loses. So I'm not sure what the 42% effectiveness actually refers to...symptoms of any kind? Or...if you've recently been vaccinated does it mean there are enough antibodies in circulation that the first viral pioneers to set foot are killed immediately before replication?

The Unvaccinated mounts a defense too...but in many cases seems like it takes too long to avoid sickness.

[iemanja]

47. this article points to studies that show the opposite

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/fully-vaccinated-people-are-still-getting-infected-with-covid-experts-explain-why/ar-AAN8whI?ocid=undefined

[videohead5]

53. The vaccines can be changed

So they are more effective against the Delta virus. I heard Dr. Fauci say it would only take a few weeks to change the vaccines. Why is it not being done?

[totodeinhere]

58. Before we panic we should take note of this from the article.

Yes, but: There has been no data so far that has found either vaccine's protection against severe disease and death is significantly less against Delta, and the study notes that there doesn't appear to be much of a difference in complications stemming from breakthrough infections based on which vaccine someone got.

Of course I do not want a breakthrough infection no matter how mild the symptoms, but I think it is comforting to realize that effectiveness against severe illness, hospitalization and death is still pretty good.

[TheProle]

60. "effectiveness against severe illness, hospitalization and death is still pretty good."

Very true, and important to remember.

But, again, there is no "THE science" to this; there is only science, an ongoing and quickly-changing evolution of understanding via the scientific method.

This makes it worthy of discussion and consideration.

[TygrBright]

61. Axios trolling for clicks. Assholes. n/t

[scipan]

79. Does anyone know whether we should be concerned

with the conflict of interest statements? I can't tell, all I know is that it is unusual to have any in the papers I have seen. And I do trust Mayo clinic.