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HAB911

(8,993 posts)
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 02:36 PM Dec 2021

The Navy needs about six months to separate unvaccinated sailors; here's what they can expect

Source: Navy Times

t could take more than six months to separate sailors who have refused to get COVID-19 vaccinations, according to Navy officials.

“Let me be clear up front: We want every sailor to receive the vaccine and stay Navy,” Rear Adm. James Waters III, director of military personnel, plans and policy, told reporters Tuesday. “And if a sailor gets their shot, we will honor that and make every effort to retain them.”


While most separations will happen in the first half of 2022, Waters expects some cases to continue past then.

“I will say that we think the bulk of these separations will happen in the time period between now and 1 June, because we are providing that window for anyone eligible to retire or separate in that timeframe to do so. … However, we understand that there will be cases that will go past that point,” Waters said.

Read more: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/12/15/the-navy-needs-about-six-months-to-separate-unvaccinated-sailors-heres-what-they-can-expect/

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The Navy needs about six months to separate unvaccinated sailors; here's what they can expect (Original Post) HAB911 Dec 2021 OP
Sounds like they're being pretty accommodating Hekate Dec 2021 #1
Don't understand why they are allowed to go unvaxxed hot2na Dec 2021 #2
Wonder what the vax rate is on the USS Roosevelt? keithbvadu2 Dec 2021 #3
I likewise don't understand why the Navy isn't just requiring PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2021 #4
I don't understand why the Navy isn't dropping the hammer on them for disobeying a direct MarineCombatEngineer Dec 2021 #6
FORCE READINESS. The military is not ready if a bunch of them have COVID Captain Zero Dec 2021 #12
It would take years to process that many cases madville Dec 2021 #15
Yeah, you're right, MarineCombatEngineer Dec 2021 #20
People have a misconception that the military can physically force members madville Dec 2021 #17
it wasn't that way when I enlisted in '64, MarineCombatEngineer Dec 2021 #21
Something strange about this. bluestarone Dec 2021 #5
Maybe the Joint Chiefs of Staff agreed on a timeline for everyone? taxi Dec 2021 #7
Having worked in the bureaucracy of the military and federal government madville Dec 2021 #18
Sounds lame. Why is this vaccine treated differently from all the military's other shots ... ancianita Dec 2021 #8
They're being way, way accomodating... SKKY Dec 2021 #9
Navy 77-81. The Navy would have dropped the hammer in a week for refusing a vaxx. denbot Dec 2021 #10
Joe needs to call some brass orangecrush Dec 2021 #11
Pull them all off ship. Assign to a desert post in Nevada. With No Leave. Captain Zero Dec 2021 #13
... orangecrush Dec 2021 #22
shit-can the slaggards pfitz59 Dec 2021 #14
Well, like every other legal and administrative process, it takes time maxrandb Dec 2021 #16
Great reply madville Dec 2021 #19
You mean it's not?!? orangecrush Dec 2021 #23

hot2na

(359 posts)
2. Don't understand why they are allowed to go unvaxxed
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 03:40 PM
Dec 2021

As a former navy sailor from 1975 - 1979 I recall rolling up my sleeves and dropping my drawers numerous times to get all kinds of vaccinations. Nobody questioned it because it was what was needed to ensure readiness. Could you imagine an aircraft carrier in a hostile situation while an active outbreak of COVID threatens the crew of 5000 sailors.

Get the damn shot or get the hell out.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,948 posts)
4. I likewise don't understand why the Navy isn't just requiring
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 04:07 PM
Dec 2021

the Covid vaccine as it requires a whole bunch of other vaccines. This vaccine refusal on the part of the sailors is just bullshit.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,612 posts)
6. I don't understand why the Navy isn't dropping the hammer on them for disobeying a direct
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 04:19 PM
Dec 2021

lawful order.

This is in direct violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ and has some pretty serious consequences.

https://mymilitarylawyers.com/practice-areas/ucmj-articles/ucmj-article-92-failure-to-obey-order-or-regulation/

Article 92 UCMJ Maximum Punishment. The maximum punishment for a violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation is dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for two years. For violation of or failure to obey other lawful orders, the maximum punishment is a bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for six months.

Personally, I believe the Navy should hammer these sailors, they are putting this fellow sailors in danger, they could potentially impact force readiness, etc.

madville

(7,413 posts)
15. It would take years to process that many cases
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 08:51 AM
Dec 2021

If they prosecuted them to the full extent. Of course the member is entitled to counsel and a full defense as well, takes time. We’re talking about thousands of potential cases, it would jam up their justice system for years, many would probably see their enlistments end before even going to trial.

They are definitely taking the easy and more expedient route by just administratively discharging people.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,612 posts)
20. Yeah, you're right,
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 10:36 AM
Dec 2021

I just think it's bullshit that they're getting off so easy, especially with an Honorable Discharge,
back when I was active duty, that shit would have never gone down.

madville

(7,413 posts)
17. People have a misconception that the military can physically force members
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 09:16 AM
Dec 2021

To do things against their will. Administratively this is no different than a member refusing a tetanus shot or any other required vaccine, no one would physically restrain them and give them the shot. They would of course have to face the consequences of their decision though.

I remember we had a guy that refused to go to dental, even discovered he was faking his annual dental exams because he was terrified of the dentist. He got NJP, lost a pay grade and some money and voluntarily eventually went to dental. But if he had flat out refused to go to the dentist he would have been administratively processed out most likely.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,612 posts)
21. it wasn't that way when I enlisted in '64,
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 10:58 AM
Dec 2021

Last edited Sat Dec 18, 2021, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

back then, you either obeyed or the consequences were a lot more severe than today, granted, nobody, AFAIK, were physically forced to obey an order, however, there were other ways to get recalcitrant personnel to obey an order.

I can't remember how many times I got a clipboard to the back of my head during boot camp for screw ups, among other "physical training exercises" at night as a form of punishment for the whole company because someone pissed off our DI.

taxi

(1,896 posts)
7. Maybe the Joint Chiefs of Staff agreed on a timeline for everyone?
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 04:35 PM
Dec 2021

Looking at their page -

snip...
The Joint Chiefs of Staff consist of the Chairman, the Vice Chairman, the Chief of Staff of the Army, the Chief of Naval Operations, the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the Chief of the National Guard Bureau and the Chief of Space Operations. (emphasis mine)

https://www.jcs.mil/About/

The Navy lost the fight over beards to them back in the early '80s.

eta: Blame the delay on deployment of the Space Force?

madville

(7,413 posts)
18. Having worked in the bureaucracy of the military and federal government
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 09:19 AM
Dec 2021

For a combined 36 years, I would consider them processing out all those members in 6 months extremely fast lol. Nothing moves fast in those systems.

SKKY

(11,856 posts)
9. They're being way, way accomodating...
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 05:23 PM
Dec 2021

...throughout my 20-year career in the Navy, I've seen folks get admin sep'd in a couple of weeks for a whole host of reasons.

denbot

(9,901 posts)
10. Navy 77-81. The Navy would have dropped the hammer in a week for refusing a vaxx.
Thu Dec 16, 2021, 06:42 PM
Dec 2021

They cannot let a sailor's politics dictate command orders, WTF!?!?!

Captain Zero

(6,919 posts)
13. Pull them all off ship. Assign to a desert post in Nevada. With No Leave.
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 05:07 AM
Dec 2021

See who starts showing up for the vaccine.

maxrandb

(15,468 posts)
16. Well, like every other legal and administrative process, it takes time
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 08:52 AM
Dec 2021

Even with non-judicial punishment, say for Failing to Obey a Lawful Orders, there are charges, statements, Captains Mast, and then there is the actual processing through the commands GCM authority for approval of the separation and character of service. More than likely, the majority will get either an Other Than Honorable, or General, Under Honorable Conditions character of service.

Additionally, even though an OTH Discharge is considered "Non-Punitive", members are subject to an automatic appeal through the General Court Martial authority.

In some cases, members that have the required service to qualify for retirement would be given that option. This would be in keeping with the practice of reviewing the "whole service" standard when considering discharge and character of service.

Throw in the required discharge medical physical, and the mandatory Transition Assistance Program, and 6 months is very reasonable.

The UCMJ is truly one of the most just type of prosecution there is.

I know that we would like to slap handcuffs on these guys and frog march them off the pier, but like I tell my bride, at least one political party needs to stand up for the rule if law.

BTW - I was compelled to get vaccines and medical treatment throughout my military career, including annual HIV testing and having my DNA put in a national database.

The Navy will get rid of those guys, and they will dot every I and cross every T to do it.

madville

(7,413 posts)
19. Great reply
Fri Dec 17, 2021, 09:39 AM
Dec 2021

I swear, so many people here have this vision of the modern military like it’s a combination of Full Metal Jacket and prison lol.

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