US, NATO rule out halt to expansion, reject Russian demands

[TexasTowelie]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States and NATO on Friday roundly rejected Russian demands that the alliance not admit new members amid growing concerns that Russia may invade Ukraine, which aspires to join the alliance.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Russia would have no say over who should be allowed to join the bloc. And, they warned Russia of a “forceful” response to any further military intervention in Ukraine.

Their comments amounted to a complete dismissal of a key part of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s demands for easing tensions with Ukraine. Putin wants NATO to halt membership plans for all countries, including Ukraine. The former Soviet republic is unlikely to join the alliance in the foreseeable future, but NATO nations won’t rule it out.

Blinken and Stoltenberg spoke separately following an extraordinary virtual meeting of NATO foreign ministers. The meeting of the North Atlantic Council was the first in a series of high-level talks over the next week aimed at easing the tensions.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-emmanuel-macron-4b0815a24bb98ca7e3b81aa0dc6b1838

[pecosbob]

2. I'd make the group smaller by one nation and kick Turkey the f*ck out.

over it's continuous human rights violations. As far as the issue at hand, I'm not sold on the idea of Ukraine joining...unless we plan to put boots on the ground to defend Ukraine, it does more harm than good IMO.

[erronis]

3. If you don't accept Ukraine, then why any other countries that ring the USSR?

The current KGB chief Putin will keep pushing back at other bordering countries. Baltics, Poland.

Let the countries involved make their own decisions. Assuming they are representing their people (democratic).

[pecosbob]

8. I don't see pouring gasoline on a fire as a solution

Russia's going to do Russia. Quite simply, Ukraine becoming a member of the EU or NATO effectively threatens Putin's control over the natural gas pipelines that cross the Donets Basin and accordingly, threatens his revenue. Ironically, the reality is that both the European and Russian economies are codependent on the natural gas flowing. If it's shut off by whomever Russia starves and Europe freezes.

I'm in no way denying Ukraine's right to self-determination, but Russia's going to pretty much do what they want there and there's not much we can do about it, nor, given the current geo-political reality, should we. I don't see their actions in Ukraine as indicative of a re-emerging expansionist Russian empire.

On the other hand, with the Nordstream Baltic Sea pipelines coming on line, the threat of interruptions to natural gas supply is reduced and accordingly the Russians may be more inclined to play nice in the Donbas.

[carpetbagger]

12. History and geopolitics

Poland and the Baltics were always part of a different cultural sphere. In the 90s and 00s, Russia tried to draw a neutral line through them, but the history of Russian hostile.occupation and invasion rings strongly within those countries, and their joining NATO was at the peak of NATO's power. Power that reached that far but not to Finland, although they (and Sweden) are getting sick of Putin and reconsidering neutrality from both an ideological and a power viewpoint.

Ukraine and Belarus are considered by Russia to be part of their cultural sphere, and the neutrality is considered a more important issue given Black Sea and other military issues. I've heard Gorbachev talk about this one at length.

I agree with you on democratic principles, it made interesting dinner conversation with my father and his friends in the 80s who were working for the Navy (they came to my side in time). Russia asserts that the Ukraine borders are arbitrary, that there are areas populated mostly by Russians who would choose Russia, and I suspect he would agree to Ukraine in NATO if Crimea and Transnitria were cleaved. But he's not going to make his best offer if he can get more, and I'm sure he has hopes of playing the long game hoping America collapses or that he can tip the balance internally in Ukraine like he did before

[marie999]

15. Forget Poland, their border with Russia is Kaliningrad which is not even attached to Russia.

[former9thward]

6. Ukraine asked to join in 2005.

NATO said no then and has said no since. They will not become a member. No European nation or the U.S. is willing to have their troops die in that country.

[paleotn]

9. Can't. The Bosporus and the Dardanelles.

I get it. Nothing would please me more than giving Erdogan the boot, except for those narrow links between the Black Sea and the Med. They're as strategically important now as they were in the Greco-Persian Wars.

[pecosbob]

11. I appreciate the strategic value of the real estate, yet

I see no compelling reason or need to enter the Black Sea other than to contest Russia's claim to the Crimea, and we really don't want to do that, do we? I think threatening Russia militarily is silly. Sending tin cans on freedom of navigation exercises in the Black Sea at this time is provocation. We have better pressure points.

[thucythucy]

13. Both Bulgaria and Romania are members of NATO

and have coastlines along the Black Sea. They have every right to ask for assistance in patrolling and defending those coasts, particularly since Russia has demonstrated a willingness to use its Black Sea fleet to commit aggression against a close neighbor of theirs. And so keeping the straits open to NATO is in fact an important priority. Either that, or build up the Romanian and Bulgarian navies to the point where they are a real deterrent to aggression and intimidation.

I'm hoping (if not entirely hopeful) that the people of Turkey will eventually shrug off the current regime. I wish the situation there would improve, and of course deplore the shift into an autocracy, but pushing Turkey out of NATO could well push it into the arms of Putin.

[cstanleytech]

4. Putin is behaving like a terrorist that takes hostages and threatens to kill them

unless his demands are met.

[Baked Potato]

5. Putin is laying the groundwork to make President Biden stronger. Nt

[Red Mountain]

7. I support this position

The Putin government is not our friend.

[paleotn]

10. Sorry, Putin. No Stalinesqe spheres of influence.

Them joining NATO or the EU isn't up to Moscow. That decision belongs to the people of those countries, to NATO and the EU.

[marie999]

14. Ukraine needs to be a buffer between NATO and Russia.

Yes, Putin is a dictator and must be watched but remember Europe has liked to invade Russia and at the end of WWII, Churchill had the military draw up plans to invade Russia, but he was told that Russia would win. Ukraine has a long border with Russia and Belarus. He does not want that long a border with NATO.