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BumRushDaShow

(129,549 posts)
Thu May 5, 2022, 07:01 PM May 2022

U.S. provided intelligence that helped Ukraine sink Russian warship

Source: Washington Post


The Russian missile cruiser Moskva, shown in 2008 in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, was sunk in the Black Sea in April. (AP)


The United States provided Ukraine with intelligence that helped Kyiv attack and sink the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, the Moskva, in one of the most dramatic battlefield successes of the 71-day old war, according to people familiar with the matter. The missile strike by Ukrainian forces in April, an extraordinary embarrassment for the Kremlin that deprived Russia of a key vessel in its military campaign, may not have been possible without the U.S. assistance, these people said, underscoring how deeply Washington has become enmeshed in Ukraine’s fight against Russia.

It is unclear how many Russian sailors died in the attack, but U.S. officials believe there were significant casualties.Despite providing intelligence on the Moskva, the United States had “no prior awareness” of Ukraine’s decision to strike the warship, a U.S. official said. The official noted that the U.S. government shares maritime awareness with Ukraine to help the nation defend against threats. Russian vessels in the Black Sea have been launching missiles at Ukraine — and could be used to support an amphibious assault on the country, the official said.

Military analysts and experts have praised the Ukrainian military’s strength and ingenuity as it repels a larger Russian force that many believed was more sophisticated and technically superior. But the U.S. intelligence has also given the Ukrainian forces a significant advantage, allowing them to locate Russian forces, equipment, and command and control centers.

Absent the intelligence from the United States, Ukraine would have struggled to target the warship with the confidence necessary to expend two valuable Neptune missiles, which were in short supply, according to the people familiar with the strike, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence. NBC News first reported that the United States had provided intelligence on the Moskva.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/05/us-intelligence-ukraine-moskva-sinking/

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U.S. provided intelligence that helped Ukraine sink Russian warship (Original Post) BumRushDaShow May 2022 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author brooklynite May 2022 #1
Different thread BumRushDaShow May 2022 #2
I thought so, but expected them to keep it classified IronLionZion May 2022 #3
I expect it was more to confirm the obvious BumRushDaShow May 2022 #4
I dunno', seems kinda' dumb to be letting the cat out of the bag right now. groundloop May 2022 #5
Russia is a bit self-absorbed, arrogant, and dense BumRushDaShow May 2022 #8
I suspect US Intel helped them strike targets in Russian territory IronLionZion May 2022 #12
Now THAT is where it would be useful BumRushDaShow May 2022 #13
Thank goodness Biden is our Commander in Chief tinrobot May 2022 #6
Apparently OPSEC sarisataka May 2022 #7
Might also be PSYOPS BumRushDaShow May 2022 #9
Considering its already known that the US is providing assistance to the Ukraine its not exactly a cstanleytech May 2022 #10
I had read that a U.S. Navy P-8 maritime patrol passe along the targeting info EX500rider May 2022 #11
I hadn't heard about the P-8, but I had read that there was a Ukranian TB-2 drone in the area GregariousGroundhog May 2022 #14
It's on the P-8 wiki page now: EX500rider May 2022 #15
Have to add a pic BumRushDaShow May 2022 #16
Might be a sonar buoy designed to detect submarines EX500rider May 2022 #19
That could be it BumRushDaShow May 2022 #20
this... myohmy2 May 2022 #17
Well that BumRushDaShow May 2022 #18
K&R ck4829 May 2022 #21

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

BumRushDaShow

(129,549 posts)
4. I expect it was more to confirm the obvious
Thu May 5, 2022, 07:22 PM
May 2022

that no, Ukraine is not a "super power"... but IS backed by the full faith, credit, and authority OF one, so "beware".

BumRushDaShow

(129,549 posts)
8. Russia is a bit self-absorbed, arrogant, and dense
Thu May 5, 2022, 08:09 PM
May 2022

but they're not that stupid either. They know there was no way that Ukraine did that on their own with a brand new missile system that as I understand, hadn't even really been field-tested yet.

BUT... it's also possible that this is all "fog of war" propaganda stuff and Ukraine might have been further along with that system than is known, so this might be something that keeps the other side "guessing".

IronLionZion

(45,541 posts)
12. I suspect US Intel helped them strike targets in Russian territory
Thu May 5, 2022, 09:17 PM
May 2022

for similar reasons. Ukraine doesn't have a lot of missiles so they use them very sparingly.

BumRushDaShow

(129,549 posts)
13. Now THAT is where it would be useful
Thu May 5, 2022, 09:24 PM
May 2022

thanks to a whole network of satellites overhead that have probably mapped the whole area.

I also think there is some "self-sabotage" going on right across the border too as a protest...

tinrobot

(10,916 posts)
6. Thank goodness Biden is our Commander in Chief
Thu May 5, 2022, 07:57 PM
May 2022

Because that other guy would not have lifted a finger to help Ukraine

cstanleytech

(26,322 posts)
10. Considering its already known that the US is providing assistance to the Ukraine its not exactly a
Thu May 5, 2022, 08:27 PM
May 2022

huge heap of logic to assume that they also are providing them intelligence information.

EX500rider

(10,872 posts)
11. I had read that a U.S. Navy P-8 maritime patrol passe along the targeting info
Thu May 5, 2022, 08:38 PM
May 2022

Flying out of Bulgaria over the black sea

GregariousGroundhog

(7,526 posts)
14. I hadn't heard about the P-8, but I had read that there was a Ukranian TB-2 drone in the area
Thu May 5, 2022, 10:36 PM
May 2022

My guess is that the U.S. P-8 spotted the Moskva, the U.S. fed that information to Ukraine, Ukraine verified the intelligence with their TB-2, and then launched their Neptune missiles.

EX500rider

(10,872 posts)
15. It's on the P-8 wiki page now:
Thu May 5, 2022, 11:50 PM
May 2022
During the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, at or before the time when the Russian Navy cruiser Moskva suffered damage and caught fire on 13/14 April, a U.S. Navy P-8A was patrolling within its radar range over the Black Sea[66] and the U.S., when asked, did identify the ship as the Moskva as part of intelligence sharing to help Ukraine "defend against attack from Russian ships."[67] The Moskva later sank. Ukraine claimed to have hit the vessel with one or more Neptune missiles.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon#Specifications_(P-8A)

BumRushDaShow

(129,549 posts)
16. Have to add a pic
Fri May 6, 2022, 10:31 AM
May 2022


Looks like the pic is showing it releasing what looks like, to my weather hobby eys, is a dropsonde. Seems too small to be ordinance since that is a patrol craft (although I expect it might still be armed with something but is obviously not a bomber per se).

I know various military aircraft doing reconnaissance release those to get the current conditions (temperature, pressure, dewpoint/humidity, wind speed/direction from the drop altitude, all the way down to the surface).



(am guessing the Navy can drop the ones that float like a buoy to provide the water conditions)
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