NASA May Unveil New Manned Moon Missions Soon
Source: Space.com
NASA is serious about sending astronauts back to the moon's neighborhood and will likely unveil its ambitious plans soon now that President Barack Obama has been re-elected, experts say.
The space agency has apparently been thinking about setting up a manned outpost beyond the moon's far side, both to establish a human presence in deep space and to build momentum toward a planned visit to an asteroid in 2025.
The new plans have probably already been cleared with the Obama Administration but have been kept under wraps in case Republican candidate Mitt Romney won Tuesday night's (Nov. 6) presidential election, said space policy expert John Logsdon, a professor emeritus at George Washington University.
<snip>
"They've been holding off announcing that until after the election," Logsdon added, noting that Romney had pledged to reassess and possibly revise NASA's missions and direction.
<snip>
Read more: http://www.space.com/18380-nasa-moon-missions-obama-election.html
Permanut
(5,610 posts)1) Can I buy a one way ticket as a gift for my Teabagger cousin?
and
2) Rmoney is unemployed now, any chance he can go?
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)Be cheaper to send them out in a submarine with the drain plug removed.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)But many Republicans like space research and humans in space.
I wouldn't say that this will not be bipartisan.
I support more humans on the moon.
randome
(34,845 posts)Other than that, they have my support.
I guess they mean in orbit.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)There's points in space where you can genuinely park something - where they'll be stationary relative to certain other nearby objects, so you don't need to expend fuel to keep them in a given location.
To really oversimplfy things, there's five Lagrange points with locations relative to the Earth and the moon, five relative to the Earth and the sun, and so on for most "one small object orbiting one bigger object" scenarios. The article's referring to the second Earth/Moon point. If you ran a straight line from the Earth through the moon, L2 would be 60,000 kilometers above the opposite side of the moon. The Earth/Sun L2 would be the same thing, only you'd draw the line from the sun through the Earth and the end point would be much further out. There'd be another set clustered around Mars or Venus, and so on and so forth.
They can be extremely useful places because of that - it makes keeping something there a lot cheaper, they're all far enough out of the gravity well to have other uses, and a few of them have extra bonuses beyond that. For example, you could put a space telescope at the Earth/Sun L2 point and it would always have Earth as a shade keeping the sun out of the telescope's eyes.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)WheelWalker
(8,955 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)I'll dig up a link in a few minutes,
this will be an international gateway,
similar to the ISS but smaller,
it will be in an orbit around located at Earth-Moon Lagrange Point 2.
The lagrange points are where the gravity of the earth and moon balance each other, they have special characteristics.
One of the special characteristics is that you can orbit them, as if there was a gravitational body there.
They also make it easier to go to any other destination in the solar system.
bananas
(27,509 posts)A spacecraft in a halo orbit does not technically orbit the Lagrange point itself (which is just an equilibrium point with no mass), but travels in a closed, repeating path near the Lagrange point.
Halo orbits are the result of a complicated interaction between the gravitational pull of the two planetary bodies and the coriolis and centrifugal accelerations on a spacecraft.
Halo orbit from above in a frame rotating with the two primary bodies. The blue sphere is the Earth, the gray sphere is the Moon, and the two red spheres are the Lagrange points L1 and L2. The spacecraft is orbiting near the L2 point.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)The Wall is still #1.
bananas
(27,509 posts)That says a lot - thank you.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Archaic
(273 posts)Step Two: Get on discovery/colonization.
The benefits from that science are massive. Materials, communications, construction, etc.
If health care costs can't wreck the personal and national economies, we can do big things again.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Im all about space exploration...but sheesh!
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)If someone's complaining about them getting funding, especially if they aren't honest enough to admit they want that finding to be zeroed, then it just means they don't know how small that budget is.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)I wrote to President Obama a few years ago and told him to kill the Moon and Mars mission and spend the money on deep space probes and Earth observation satellites. Those missions actually have a benefit for people.
I was happy when the President killed Shrub's stupid program later that year.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Kennah
(14,273 posts)... but you're right that we should pursue Universal Healthcare first. We spend almost twice what the average OECD nation spends on health as a percentage of GDP. Cost savings of Universal Healthcare would let us do all sorts of things.
The spreadsheet is a goldmine.
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/oecdhealthdata2012-frequentlyrequesteddata.htm
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/OECDHealthData2012FrequentlyRequestedData_Updated_October.xls
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)even three on a good day.
Gutting NASA to save the budget isn't much different than saying we should cut NPR to save the budget.
There are lot's of things that should be on the chopping block first.
/if we cut NASA entirely that would lead to a cost savings of about 50 bucks per person. I'm not sure what kind of healthcare you could get for 50 bucks per year. Even vets charge more than that for a few shots.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)SpaceX's Dragon capsule and a heavy-lift version of their Falcon 9 launcher will be ready before either, and President Obama wanted to rely on private companies like SpaceX for access to space.
bananas
(27,509 posts)Commercial crew only required access to ISS, Orion is designed for deep space missions.
There's no plan for a NASA-sponsored commercial crew program to L2.
Congress mandated SLS. There's a lot of speculation it will eventually be canceled.
It won't be ready for the first flights of Orion, so NASA will use a Delta Heavy instead.
Work on Orion is apparently going well.
Redundancy is a good thing. The ISS was almost decrewed during the gap between shuttle and dragon, soyuz was grounded to investigate a problem. When Spacelab was decrewed during the gap between apollo and shuttle, a solar storm caused its orbit to decay faster than expected and it was lost.
There will be four capsules capable of getting people to L2 and back: Orion, Dragon, Soyuz, and Shenzou (or whatever its successor is called). But not the current models of Dragon, Soyuz, Shenzou, they all need bigger heat shields to survive high-speed re-entry from L2, extra radiation shielding, etc. Russia is building a lunar-qualified soyuz for a Space Adventures lunar flyby in 2017.
China wants to build a moonbase, but they would really like to do it as an international partnership.
There's a lot of interest in that, as well as bringing China in as an international partner on the ISS and other projects.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)PICA-X: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenolic_impregnated_carbon_ablator#PICA
It could probably survive reentry from Mars.
bananas
(27,509 posts)and their launch-abort-system doubles as retro-rocket landing on earth, mars, moon, ...
Elon Musk said their heat shield can survive off-nominal re-entry from Mars missions,
and hundreds of LEO re-entries.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It'd be a low cost Mars sample return mission and it would prove Dragon's landing capability on Mars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dragon_(spacecraft)
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The greatest boondoggle since the Space Shuttle.
They get paid in a cost-plus manner though so there's a shit ton of graft.
bananas
(27,509 posts)Apparently there's a lot of spare parts from the ISS,
like a complete Russian module ready for launch.
I think this will help spread the costs so it's not all from NASA's budget.
Gabby Hayes
(289 posts)Great news about the NASA project, but one wonders if introducing "2007 PAS" to the public is going to require a deft touch.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)that they should start to build a base or at least starting bringing supplies for the future base.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Thanks for the thread, bananas.
truthisfreedom
(23,148 posts)Riiiiiiight.
ellie
(6,929 posts)who are mining there? Didn't they warn us not to come back?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)It's time already! Not only for scientific purposes--for instance, to get an even clearer view of the universe (than Hubble) and to train and acclimatize astronauts and begin planning for human missions around the solar system, but also for the far (maybe not so far) future when earth's human population outstrips earth's resources and mass starvation and climate change disasters threaten the very continuance of our species.
We need to learn how to terraform planets and moons. We need to learn how to repair this planet. And we need to start planning orderly expansion of the human population to other habitats in the solar system. Really. Unless we prefer to die out like overcrowded rats in a cage, we need to actively and intelligently move outward. This is the practical side of the need for a new space program, but there is much more to it.
I read a lot of back and forth argumentation, not long ago, about moon station vs. manned mission to Mars, etc., but to my mind, the Moon station makes the most sense. It is in fact an important step toward a Mars mission. Those arguments were convincing.
Personally, I felt that there was something talisman-like--an extraordinarily auspicious omen--about the first human steps on the moon back in 1969. We are so small, though burgeoning with people and running out of space on our little speck of dust of a planet--and the universe is so mind-bogglingly BIG, that it is as if we were meant to "go there." I do not normally have such feelings and I don't normally credit such feelings--talismans, omens, hair-standing-up-on-the-back-of-my-neck auspiciousness--but I had that feeling about this matter: human space travel. We MUST "go there." It is something in our make-up--the adventurous spirit, the hunger to explore, to "see what's on the other side of the mountain." It is so-o-o-o-o human! Studying the human treks out of Africa to all over the world, at the beginning of the human story, it's clear that this hunger is written in our DNA.
Somehow our questing spirit got held back and grievously frustrated after 1969. We should have done this--set up a station on the moon--long ago. It should have happened in the 1970s! But our war machine was too busy slaughtering 2 million Southeast Asians and over 55,000 U.S. soldiers...for what? For war profiteers! And our Texas oil men were too busy trying to figure out how to hijack our war machine to their purposes. And the rich were too busy becoming uber-rich at the expense of the poor. And on and on. A bankrupt democracy. A failed democracy, only too well illustrated over the last decade. A democracy incapable to feeding the human spirit!
This iffy story about a new moon venture sparks that feeling in me again: Yes! YES! We must "go there"! To be ourselves, we must "go there"! As Americans, who once had a sort of hyper-drive of adventurousness, that got twisted and horribly distorted into war and hatred and paranoia, we may recover who we are and BE who we are--not just in science and space travel, but also in progressive social policies, democracy and good will.
The two go together: a better, more just country, with responsive government and visionary leaders AND space exploration as the inspirer of science and education and source of lost self-esteem among our people.
Those who say "health care first" miss an essential point: the need to "hammer swords into plowshares" in a way that inspires everybody.
This is not a contest between health care and space travel. To change the political atmosphere and create a prosperous and joyful country, social justice measures and a positive national purpose need to proceed together, the one feeding the other. Otherwise, we will be stuck forever in this insane argument about "austerity." You defeat "austerity" and Ayn Rand/Koch Brothers poison by creating an alternative purpose to becoming uber rich and bullying the world.
A purpose for kids. A purpose for students. A purpose for workers in all fields. A purpose for small business, for decent corporations, for conservatives and liberals, for military personnel and peace activists, for dreamy people and practical people, for engineering geniuses and artists and for the "mom and pop" grocery store/deli owners on the corner--a focusing purpose for ALL, something we can ALL be proud of. A purpose to bring us together.
TOGETHER we can ALL see the need for decent health care. TOGETHER we can ALL see the need for a topnotch public education system. HOW can we be brought together? With a collective and highly inspiring purpose: to leave our cradle, earth, and venture into the big, big, big, BIG universe that is "out there."
I don't buy the argument that "we can't afford it" or that we should feed people--or provide decent medical care--instead of exploring the universe. The two things are joined. That's why JFK really started it all. That's why Caltech types (I have a number of them in my family) were thrilled by the idea of going to the moon and came together in such amazing, selfless working groups to perform miracles of engineering. It had little or nothing to do with Russia or the "space race" and everything to do with wonder and with HOPE--hope for a better country and a better world.
Come together in common purpose, with a shared dream, and miracles become possible all over the social and political landscape. We saw a number of those dreams come true in the 1960s era or originating from that era--civil rights for black Americans, women's rights, gay rights, Medicare, the environmental movement, the organic food movement--and I don't think it's a coincidence that that inspiring era of social progress exactly corresponds with the decade of development of the space program that ended in the moon walks.
That's history. That's the precedent--that the moon walks unleashed our people's creativity in all spheres. Or was it the other way around? Hard to say. What is certain is that, in that era, these two positive developments--moon walks and social progress--were intertwined.
This is now. Now can be even more creative and visionary, despite--or maybe because of--grave setbacks (lessons learned). But we need a spark. We need a common purpose. We need stimulation of that adventurous loop in our DNA. Humans inhabiting the moon or in a space habitat near the moon, looking outward and planning and executing insanely difficult voyages--that's the ticket!
Mobilize our people around this inspiring adventure and they will not think twice about the need for all the rest: educated, healthy people in a fair and just society, to, one day, inhabit the stars.
BIG PICTURE politics! I long for it. I hope we get it. I hope I see it again in my lifetime.
bananas
(27,509 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/science/space/14mission.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
TheDonkey
(8,911 posts)America cannot afford to take the foot off the pedal of science. With research and exploration we will grow the economy. This is the basic "takeaway" of world history.
and-justice-for-all
(14,765 posts)BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)instead of on ways to leave it.
don't get me wrong- i'm all for unmanned space exploration- but we have much more pressing problems to figure out right here on terra.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Instead we're trying to figure out how to steal more oil, how to frak up the environment for coal, how to REDUCE the public education system, how to make people ignore climate change, how to do more evil of every kind to the earth and to people.
"We" meaning our transglobal corporate, bankster, war profiteer-controlled political establishment and their monopolistic media propagandists and their bought and paid for political operatives.
THEY are NOT trying "figure out" our most "pressing problems" "right here on terra" and thus, since they control national policy--with corporate-run 'TRADE SECRET' voting systems, billions in secret campaign donations, "revolving door" employment between government and corporate board rooms, filthy lobbying and other shackles on public policy--We, as a people, are PREVENTED from solving problems as the problems pile up into disasters.
This is VERY demoralizing to our people.
Our democracy is NOT working right. In fact, if it were, we would have put humans in a habitat on or near the moon long ago, and we may well have already sent humans to Mars. INSTEAD, look at the frigging WAR MACHINE that was just used to slaughter a hundred thousand people in the first weeks of "shock and awe" bombing to steal their oil!
ALL that money, ALL those resources, ALL that human energy should have gone into the space program--and DIDN'T! WHY? If we'd gone that way--outward to the solar system and the universe--there would be NO QUESTION about funding education and health care; there would be NO QUESTION about the rich looting the poor with "austerity." The rich would recognized as the selfish bastards that most of them are, who FAil to share in, and contribute to, the national vision.
The "national vision" has become money, money, money--getting rich, being powerful bullies, being self-indulgent morons. The environment be damned. The poor be damned. Working people be damned. Small business be damned. Public education be damned. The earth itself be damned. This is nuts--and it CAN be changed--as JFK and NASA engineers once had the notion of changing it: by focusing our country and our people on a higher goal of immense worthiness and human and especially scientific importance.
This is what we do best. It is our special gift as a people: engineering! And what have we used it for--drone bombers and drone spy planes! Frakking! GMO destruction of the food chain. Despoilation of the Gulf coast and other places to fuel the war machine. Transglobal transport of consumer goods to destroy our own manufacturing base and all our jobs. Destruction of every kind! Where do we see anything constructive being done with our engineering genius? We are mostly making weapons to keep the uber rich uber rich and are neglecting everything else. We can't even keep our roads in repair!
We need something to lift us out of this muck. A national mission to space could provide the inspiration we need, not only because it is immanently worthy but perhaps most of all because it includes everybody.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)It is going to be a VERY VERY LONG TIME before humans leave the solar system, if EVER. and none of the other planets in it will support human life, so this is the only planet we've got to work with. and the longer we wait to tackle our earthbound problems- the harder it's going to be. If there's a total environmental/economic/social breakdown- there won't be ANY space program in the dystopian world that results from it all.
there are PLENTY of BIG projects that could provide similar inspiration to the masses, while at the same time solving some our current and impending problems right here on earth.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)..Are the people throwing that line around as some kind of idiotic straw man to attack space programs in general.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)but solving the impending MAJOR planet-bound problems facing us is much more important- saving civilization type important. and without a civilized planet- there won't be ANY space program.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)and your whole argument, every smallest jot amd tittle, completely falls apart.
Ever heard the phrase "barking up the wrong tree"? A dog is you.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)Funding would have to be raised appreciably to conduct manned missions to mars- and that money would be much better spent on solving earthbound problems first.
Mars will always be there.
But if we don't get climate change under control- our species may not.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Pay particular attention to the 2:02 mark, even if you watch no other part of it.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)and that's how it should stay.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)get back to me when you do.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I remember seeing the moon landing live on TV. I had dreamed of that happening since I started reading sci-fi books in my teens. My mother said it would never happen. When that moon landing happened, I called her and said, "I told you so."