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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:18 PM Nov 2012

Republicans To Obama On Taxes: Letís Compromise By Not Raising Taxes

Source: TPM

President Obama ran on raising taxes and won. House Republicans ran on not raising taxes, and got to keep their majority. So now the GOP is offering a familiar sounding compromise: let’s not raise taxes.

More specifically, Obama’s re-election, and the looming expiration of the Bush tax cuts, have made House Republicans’ prime imperative to preserve the current tax rates on high earners, which Obama campaigned and won on returning to Clinton era levels.

It’s a big ask, given the results of the election, and Obama’s long-standing pledge to veto legislation that extends all of the Bush tax cuts, even temporarily. Thus, their hopes rest on a vague suggestion that they’ll concede higher revenues in a future tax reform agreement with Obama, so long as he drops his demands for higher tax rates and agrees to cut entitlement spending.

This sounds familiar because it’s broadly speaking the same deficit cutting deal Republicans spent most of this past Congress pursuing — one that raises little, if any revenue, let alone revenue from high earners. And early signs indicate that Democrats won’t bite.

“Because the American people expect us to find common ground, we are willing to accept some additional revenues, via tax reform,” House Speaker John Boehner said in the Capitol Wednesday — his first major address since Tuesday’s election. “But the American people also expect us to solve the problem. And for that reason, in order to garner Republican support for new revenues, the president must be willing to reduce spending and shore up the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt.”

Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/republicans-to-obama-on-taxes-lets-compromise-by-not-raising-taxes.php?ref=fpa

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Republicans To Obama On Taxes: Letís Compromise By Not Raising Taxes (Original Post) DonViejo Nov 2012 OP
I think Obama should at least threaten to let the fiscal cliff happen ItsTheMediaStupid Nov 2012 #1
Raise taxes on the 1%, cut military spending and tax the church, budget balanced. sarcasmo Nov 2012 #2
sarcasmo Diclotican Nov 2012 #5
Raise taxes on the 1%, cut military spending and tax the church, budget balanced. AlbertCat Nov 2012 #7
+100000000000000000 do not give in to those f-ing R's - they are party of FAIL wordpix Nov 2012 #13
Right on, it's time for the DNC to grow a backbone. sarcasmo Nov 2012 #14
Defense spending is the largest portion of ANY US Budget! benld74 Nov 2012 #3
Reducing the deficit isn't why they want the programs cut jmowreader Nov 2012 #24
That's exactly right. FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #39
Well...okay jmowreader Nov 2012 #42
I think the GOP VOTERS believe (other) people are essentially lazy FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #45
Those guys have always wanted all the power jmowreader Nov 2012 #46
DonViejo Diclotican Nov 2012 #4
I wish this were true Lefty Thinker Nov 2012 #33
Lefty Thinker Diclotican Nov 2012 #35
the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt.Ē AlbertCat Nov 2012 #6
Or does he mean the military, veterans benefits and the defense industry? cstanleytech Nov 2012 #11
"I've got political capital and I intend to spend it" montex Nov 2012 #8
+1. robinlynne Nov 2012 #20
Oh Obama isnt raising taxes actually as the republicans themselves are doing that cstanleytech Nov 2012 #9
yes ofcourse maindawg Nov 2012 #10
Fuck this asswipe Boner argiel1234 Nov 2012 #12
Just politics as usual defacto7 Nov 2012 #15
PBO has all the cards.....nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #16
Here they come again - same old same old. gtar100 Nov 2012 #17
Bite me, douchebag. And look up compromise in the dictionary. SunSeeker Nov 2012 #18
if he (Obama) wnats to. the first time he gave away the cards. HOpe he HOLDS them this time! robinlynne Nov 2012 #21
Sorry GOPs adieu Nov 2012 #19
Agreed, it's how you negotiate with children, as I learned with my daughter... Volaris Nov 2012 #32
Only a fool would trust the Republicans. glinda Nov 2012 #22
"let's compromise by having you surrender completely.." Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #23
Better compromise jmowreader Nov 2012 #25
Damn, I thought I was clicking on an onion article. tavalon Nov 2012 #26
These Rethugs,,,,, Cryptoad Nov 2012 #27
The President needs to play some hardball with the Orange man. liberal N proud Nov 2012 #28
Hardball is right! Dyedinthewoolliberal Nov 2012 #44
Boehner is essentially saying animalcrackers Nov 2012 #29
I'm all for talking to the Rethugs Andy Stanton Nov 2012 #30
Heres Obama's answer Corgigal Nov 2012 #31
Don't believe the Repukes and don't give any leeway - socialindependocrat Nov 2012 #34
I'm done with that. Let the Bush tax cut expire. Xyzse Nov 2012 #36
Republican Compromise: Hayabusa Nov 2012 #37
entitlements are a primary driver? Not defense spending, war, and tax cuts for the rich? yurbud Nov 2012 #38
Just John2 Nov 2012 #40
The GOP already raised all our taxes. sofa king Nov 2012 #41
I think the conversation should go something like this: Dyedinthewoolliberal Nov 2012 #43

ItsTheMediaStupid

(2,800 posts)
1. I think Obama should at least threaten to let the fiscal cliff happen
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:21 PM
Nov 2012

If that is what it takes to make the stupidi-TEA baggers increase taxes, so be it. Make it clear we don't want this but we absolutely will if they don't tax the rich more.

A lot of the cuts are going to hurt pugs worse then democrats.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
5. sarcasmo
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:33 PM
Nov 2012

sarcasmo

I think you can solve at least some of the budget if you tax the wealthy better - and cut some of the spending to the military - by 25 percent, the nest 20 year or so - and tax the church as they have proven they are willing to go a long way to play politic when americans goes to elections...

Diclotican

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
7. Raise taxes on the 1%, cut military spending and tax the church, budget balanced.
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:41 PM
Nov 2012

Don't forget a mandatory minimum tax on Corporations. Clinton's was something like 16%...the European corporate tax.


Remember.... rich people were still rich in the '90's. Their whining about taxes is pitiful.

benld74

(9,877 posts)
3. Defense spending is the largest portion of ANY US Budget!
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:24 PM
Nov 2012

You CANNOT cut programs which make up less than 25% each of the budget and expect a LARGE decrease in debt!!!
Its basic math you idiots!

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
39. That's exactly right.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:50 PM
Nov 2012

The programs give people some help when they need it.

Take that away and you've got yourself a whole new crop of slaves.

And THAT is the entire purpose of the GOP: Slavery.

jmowreader

(50,349 posts)
42. Well...okay
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:33 PM
Nov 2012

Another view is the GOP believes people are essentially lazy, and the party is stuck in the early 1950s.

According to GOP orthodoxy, a person can always get a job. They can push a broom, work on a farm or labor in a factory, and if they refuse they deserve to starve.

According to reality, our industry has invented products and machines that allow one Maintenance Professional to do the job of ten Janitors. Farms are fewer and larger so the number of year-round workers has dropped drastically, and factory automation allows fewer workers to make more goods. The jobs needed to fulfill the GOP vision of every person who needs a job can get a bad one if they just apply for it, no longer exist.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
45. I think the GOP VOTERS believe (other) people are essentially lazy
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:38 PM
Nov 2012

But the GOP politicians and bank-rollers just want all the power.

Leave people with nowhere to turn and you've got helpless, cheap "help" anytime you need it.

I'd call that slavery.

To put it another way: "The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor." -- Voltaire

jmowreader

(50,349 posts)
46. Those guys have always wanted all the power
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 04:15 PM
Nov 2012

Sane GOP politicians - an endangered species - see welfare spending as a necessary evil. By 'welfare spending' I mean any spending that promotes the social welfare, so to them old age pensions, veterans benefits and other such expenditures are welfare.

They know undernourishment of children was the primary cause of medical rejection in World Wars I and II, so they will accept child nutrition programs - not because it's the right thing to do but because rickets and pellagra victims can't be in the army.

Similarly, they know adults who have no food money will steal anything, nailed-down or not, for groceries.

And they also know desperate people will suffer any degradation gladly to get what they need. They would have kept paper food stamps, which fairly scream "look at me, I'm a freeloader," if only they could have kept them from becoming "ghetto money."

Those things don't prevent the GOP kingpins from turning people into slaves because it's fun. The teabaggers are a different story: they are so focused on taxes they'd privatize the fire department to save a nickel on their tax bill. After all, if your house catches fire your insurance company can pay for it...not realizing your insurance would go up faster than your taxes down, as insurance rates partially hinge on the presence of government employees with hoses. The baggers would cut off all social spending because Ayn Rand's books made them hate it.(Yes, I know Rand was on government assistance at the end of her life.)

I don't know what the solution is, except to let them move to Canada and not let them come back when they find out what liberal society is really like.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
4. DonViejo
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:31 PM
Nov 2012

DonViejo

Instead of cutting in social programs cut in the most expensive program the US have - the Pentagon... 25 percent cut - the next 10 or 20 years - and most of the fiscal problems the US have, would be more or less finished off... And even with a reducing of 25 percent, the US would have a second to non military forces - who would be more than enough to fight any modern warfare the US is in for, the next decades to come..

And if you cut off all the different private companies who have lot of resources into Pentagon - it might cut into some of the deficit itself.. IF Xe or the other different companies who suck money and resources out of Pentagon is eliminated I suspect they could save a lot of money just there - to spend on things the Pentagon need..

Diclotican

Lefty Thinker

(96 posts)
33. I wish this were true
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:13 AM
Nov 2012

But cutting military spending, like any other deficit reduction measure, will only result in an economic downturn. Deficits are not inherently bad; they make up for drains on circulating currency to private savings and net imports. Cutting spending on the military (or on "entitlements" or anything else) reduces the deficit without changing the dynamics of the private or external sectors. This will absolutely lead to higher unemployment, which also means additional expenditures on unemployment and welfare programs, which adds more spending than the cuts removed.

This is what Greece is facing, forced on them by the Troika and their own insistence on staying in the Euro. There may be some structural spending problems in Greece, but the solution is not to cut spending as they have been forced to, but rather to spend as much or more in wiser ways - ways that build the future productivity of their nation. But they chose to relinquish their power to issue currency and must, until they reclaim it, play by the Eurozone rules.

If America wants to avoid Greece's fate we must, first and foremost, avoid misunderstanding the existing realities. Neo-liberal (and even Keynesian) economists slip into traps of worrying about the deficit. But, if we want a growing economy, the deficit must be determined from the private and external sector balances. Any attempt to act directly on the deficit (i.e. cutting spending or raising taxes) is actually self-defeating.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
35. Lefty Thinker
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:10 AM
Nov 2012

Lefty Thinker

I think you are right - even though I have some problems understanding why cutting in defense, to use in other, more social programs can be hurtfully, even though I understand, if you cut 25 percent of the military - many soldiers, and officers will be out of a job.. And have to be retrained or given a pension if they are "to old" to retraining... It is bad even way...

Thank for the explaining - it is far more complex than I understood it as...

But something have to be doing with the US economy - but it looks like it is no easy task to get it right, even if you are doing some of it right...

Diclotican

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
6. the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt.Ē
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:38 PM
Nov 2012

Does he mean like subsidies for Big Oil and the like?

Corporate welfare far out-spends personal welfare. Surely that's what Orange Boy meant.


Maybe not.....


 

montex

(93 posts)
8. "I've got political capital and I intend to spend it"
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:41 PM
Nov 2012

The republicans have set the precedent for spending their political capitol in a 2nd term, and I demand that Obama do no less.

cstanleytech

(25,946 posts)
9. Oh Obama isnt raising taxes actually as the republicans themselves are doing that
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:56 PM
Nov 2012

due to their unwillingness to be willing to seek a compromise with Dems and Obama over the Bush era tax cuts.

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
10. yes ofcourse
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:57 PM
Nov 2012

file this under, you aint seen nuthin yet.

and this is the same fail we saw again yesterday.


until they die, until they die.....

 

argiel1234

(390 posts)
12. Fuck this asswipe Boner
Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:03 PM
Nov 2012

The biggest driver of our debt is the military and police/prison state

Also stop the FAILED war of drugs




You here this BOEHNER?

CUT MILITARY SPENDING BY HALF and problem fucking solved

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
17. Here they come again - same old same old.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:17 AM
Nov 2012

Rhetorical question but why the hell do they always let their personal self-interest rule their perspective on economic policies? If progressive tax rates were such a problem, why wasn't there an economic crisis of huge proportions during the Eisenhower presidency? If they would only base their policies on historical facts, they might begin to sound reasonable. Trickle-down economics has never worked and yet they cling to that ideology like it's gospel. We are still left with dealing with very unreasonable people who are clouded by beliefs that have no basis in reality.

SunSeeker

(51,063 posts)
18. Bite me, douchebag. And look up compromise in the dictionary.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:26 AM
Nov 2012

You lost 6 seats in the house, Boner. You better learn: 1) it's called the Democratic Party, and 2) President Obama holds the cards.

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
19. Sorry GOPs
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:45 AM
Nov 2012

The taxes will be raised. Back up to 25% minimum for capital gains and up to 40% for highest marginal tax rates for the über rich. Don't like it? We'll tack on another 10% to the rich and a transaction tax for all trading. Still don't like it? Ok, another 15% to the rich, the transaction tax, and taxes on hedge fund trades. Tell us when you like it and we'll stop there.

The key to negotiating in this context is not finding a middle ground. It's finding the floor of where we're happy, and then go up from there. (That's basically the GOP playbook the past 4 years, by the way: they set their floor, we agreed, and before the ink was dry, they moved the goalposts further to the right. So we should do the same, but the other way.)

Volaris

(10,246 posts)
32. Agreed, it's how you negotiate with children, as I learned with my daughter...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:43 AM
Nov 2012

Her: Can I have 2 cookies?
Me: Yes, you can have 2 cookies.
Her Can I have THREE cookies?
Me: You can have ONE cookie.

The next time we had cookies for dessert, she asked for 3 up front, and when I said yes, she just ate her cookies, and was happy.

Boehner needs to be shown in no uncertian terms, that just because he runs the House (for now) does not mean he gets to dictate Terms. He runs one HALF of one THIRD of the Federal Government. Fuck him, if he thinks that equals 50%+1.

jmowreader

(50,349 posts)
25. Better compromise
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:22 AM
Nov 2012

You let me raise taxes on the wealthy to Clinton levels, but at the same time redesign the tax code so flow-through entities with more than two non-family-member full-time employees pay taxes at Bush rates.

This will totally fuck the GOP. Their claimed justification for keeping the Bush rates is to protect LLCs and S-corps from paying higher taxes. Okay...every W-2 ever written has a taxpayer ID number on it; two W-2s with your number on it show up and you pay Bush rates. The real reason they won't bend is they just hate taxes. We hate taxes too but we understand they have a purpose.

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
27. These Rethugs,,,,,
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:51 AM
Nov 2012

These Rethugs have way too much Hate to ever compromise and govern. WE are just going to

have to do what we can without them. We can start by driving full speed ahead over the so

called fiscal cliff since the Rethugs have already approved that. Only then, we can offer

up some meaningful tax relief for the Middle Class and Working Poor. This will be our

only chance of any Tax reform !

liberal N proud

(60,217 posts)
28. The President needs to play some hardball with the Orange man.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:24 AM
Nov 2012

He needs to make it clear who won on Tuesday and make it very clear who is setting the agenda, that if Boehner wants in, he needs to shred that document he signed with Norquist.

animalcrackers

(93 posts)
29. Boehner is essentially saying
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:29 AM
Nov 2012

"Adopt Mitt Romney's tax policies and we will compromise" isn't he? And Both Obama and Romney have stated during the election that the tax code needs to be reformed to remove shady deductions and simplify it. So he's not really compromising on anything here - just political jargon.

Tax policy isn't just about revenue, it's also about encouraging (or discouraging) behavior - such as Reagen's EITC tax deductions which are universally praised (and ironically have led to th 47% Romney and the right have criticized).
http://blog.ctnews.com/kantrowitz/2011/04/05/the-federal-earned-income-tax-credit-draws-praise-across-the-political-spectrum/
So just reducing tax rates for the 1% wont lead to more growth and job creation, unless we increase production of personal jets, italian super cars, and caviar, and expand the hedge fund work force. Boehner doesnt realize that it's consumers that create jobs, not the rich.

And the idea that increasing taxes on the Top 1% of earners will hurt economic growth has been disproved countless of times. The GOP run house suppressed this important study just before the election - http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/crs-withdraws-study-taxes-growth-mcconnell-hatch.php

I am not sure about the strategy of letting the cliff deadline expire, or playing chicken with the inbreds in the house, but we should start now on getting out the truth and preparing for a fight. Get out the Congressional Research Service study as much as possible and other factual information.

Andy Stanton

(264 posts)
30. I'm all for talking to the Rethugs
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:37 AM
Nov 2012

But make it clear that a grand bargain requires repeal of Bush tax cuts for the super-wealthy.

If the Rethugs won't go for that, Obama should take his case to the people.

socialindependocrat

(1,372 posts)
34. Don't believe the Repukes and don't give any leeway -
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:24 AM
Nov 2012

Make the Repukes give everything up-front

They lie and they still have Cantor and Ryan and the rest of the liers

I'd rather pay more middle-class taxes and pay down the debt than let the Repukes off the hook.

The last time we had a majority and tried to reach across the aisle we got abused and then blamed for not accomplishing anything!

Hold their feet to the fire and make them give everything up-front!

The idea of getting rid of loopholes and waste should be understood! A no brainer!!

We have the upper hand in that the GOP either plays ball or goes the way of the dinosaur.
Push them to the wall!

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
36. I'm done with that. Let the Bush tax cut expire.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
Nov 2012

Change the debate to "Let's create a new Tax Cut to replace the Bush Tax Cuts".

That way, Republicans don't have to deal with having to raise taxes, while opening up a way for Democrats to cut taxes for those that need it.

Sorry, but I am tired of hearing about the "Bush Tax Cuts".

They keep going on and on about repealing and replacing Obamacare.
This way, Democrats can actually formulate a replacement on the Bush Tax Cuts instead.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
40. Just
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:43 PM
Nov 2012

let the Repugs decide if they want to take the country off the cliff. That is the only compromise the president should make and kick their butts in the midterm. The longer the Repugs wait it out, meanwhile they have a huge problem. A Demographic Tidal wave is over the horizon and that is more powerful than Sandy was. Their ship is sinking.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
41. The GOP already raised all our taxes.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 03:01 PM
Nov 2012

Back in August, the Republicans blocked an extension of the middle class tax cuts. Taxes will go up for almost everyone in January.

Since the wealthiest people got the best cuts, the expiration will hurt them the most visibly... and probably also jolt the economy into sudden life, despite the fact that the purchasing power of the middle class will be reduced.

And you know what we have to do to make sure that happens?

Not one fucking thing. It's already done.

That's what has really happened since the Teabaggers came to Washington: Democrats have run rings around them legislatively and executive-ly. "No" is predictable and can be used against those too stupid to know how to say anything else.

We already roped them into raising taxes, cutting half a trillion from the defense budget, ending the war in Iraq, and giving up their ability to shut down the government by withholding funds. Not one important Republican-authored bill has passed Congress in two years.

The next two years are the best opportunity we have had in decades to grab a supermajority in the Senate, and control of the House and the White House. We can expect Senate Democrats to slyly maneuver GOP Senators onto the wrong side of every issue Americans care about, exactly as we did this time, which led to a 25-8 victory in Senate elections.

We are choking out the GOP, slowly, painfully, but also inexorably.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,401 posts)
43. I think the conversation should go something like this:
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:46 PM
Nov 2012

Mr. Obama; 'I've bent over backwards in trying to work with the Republicans, offering time and again to listen to a reasonable plan. You ignored me every time. So guess what motherfuckers? You are gonna toe the fuckin' line or I'm gonna cut all your dicks off and shove 'em down your throats!"
Mr. Boehner: *crickets chirping*

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