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neoconn

(185 posts)
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 07:19 PM Aug 2022

What forensic testing reveals about revolver in on-set 'Rust' shooting

Source: ABC News



The gun used in the fatal shooting on the "Rust" movie set could not have been fired without pulling the trigger, according to an FBI forensic report obtained Friday by ABC News.

Actor Alec Baldwin shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of the Western, which he was producing and starring in, last year. The actor believed he was handling a "cold gun" -- one without live ammunition -- when it went off and a live bullet struck Hutchins, killing her. The film's director, Joel Souza, was also wounded in the shooting.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/gun-rust-shooting-could-not-015300975.html



"No reason to lie Craig"....

Didn't see that coming
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What forensic testing reveals about revolver in on-set 'Rust' shooting (Original Post) neoconn Aug 2022 OP
What does this mean, if anything, for Alec Baldwin? Irish_Dem Aug 2022 #1
Well, it means he lied repeatedly about not pulling the trigger. NullTuples Aug 2022 #2
Would his liability be more civil or could criminal charges come into it now? Irish_Dem Aug 2022 #3
He was handed a gun with a live round in it. Mosby Aug 2022 #41
He was also the on-set Producer running a non-union shop to cut costs NullTuples Aug 2022 #46
So non union workers are inferior? Mosby Aug 2022 #47
Union shops protect their workers. It was already clear that was not a safe shop. NullTuples Aug 2022 #48
Barely 10 percent of Americans are union members. Mosby Aug 2022 #49
I get it, you are not pro-union. Still, on movie sets unions pushed for strict rules regarding guns NullTuples Aug 2022 #50
The degree of workplace safety in not tied to union membership. Mosby Aug 2022 #51
Nice try; I never said safety was tied to union membership NullTuples Aug 2022 #53
So the rust set would have been 2.8% safer if it was union. Mosby Aug 2022 #55
You don't know much about Hollywood. yardwork Aug 2022 #79
You don't have to be anti-union to believe that a non-union worker can do the job just as well. Martin68 Aug 2022 #74
You're mistaken on several points. yardwork Aug 2022 #78
and he could be right azureblue Aug 2022 #67
As a producer, Baldwin was also responsible for the conditions on set that day. yardwork Aug 2022 #80
I thought Baldwin said he was handed a hot gun. He never said he handed it to someone else to fire. TheBlackAdder Aug 2022 #4
Wrong. Mosby Aug 2022 #42
Who's Craig? discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2022 #5
From the movie Friday neoconn Aug 2022 #10
Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2022 #19
"Well, it means he lied repeatedly about not pulling the trigger." J_William_Ryan Aug 2022 #6
Alec Baldwin on 'Rust' shooting: 'Someone is ​responsible ... but I know it's not me' NullTuples Aug 2022 #8
I'll go with the 'forensics' on this stopdiggin Aug 2022 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Owl Aug 2022 #21
Hard agree. ShazzieB Aug 2022 #39
Hair trigger perhaps, but only when the hammer is cocked. JohnnyRingo Aug 2022 #11
Most clones of Colt SAA come with a factory trigger of not less than 7lbs. oneshooter Aug 2022 #26
Yeah, my instructor always said Farmer-Rick Aug 2022 #28
Baldwin Lied Repeatedly? Roy Rolling Aug 2022 #7
Alec Baldwin exclusive: 'The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger' Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2022 #13
Much of the crew had walked off the set with complaints about safety on set rpannier Aug 2022 #16
"Lied Repeatedly" Roy Rolling Aug 2022 #17
WHY didnt he check the weapon? WHO brought live ammo on a damn movie set? oldsoftie Aug 2022 #12
The second question is the one I think needs to be settled. Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2022 #14
Excellent idea. truthisfreedom Aug 2022 #15
Wow, there's a name from the past I hadnt heard in a long time! oldsoftie Aug 2022 #18
Checking a gun is not the actor's reponsibility Random Boomer Aug 2022 #22
Checking the gun is the responsibilty of anyone who handles a firearm ripcord Aug 2022 #24
Directly contrary to what I've read Random Boomer Aug 2022 #25
The answer, like a lot of answers, depends who you ask Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2022 #36
He wasn't handed the pistol by the armorer ripcord Aug 2022 #37
Doesn't matter, he was on set Mosby Aug 2022 #43
It doesn't matter that he was on set ripcord Aug 2022 #64
Then why wasn't he arrested? Mosby Aug 2022 #66
I'm not arguing that you aren't correct. Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2022 #63
When you cock one of these things by pulling back on the hammer Aussie105 Aug 2022 #20
Who put live ammo in a prop? Kid Berwyn Aug 2022 #23
Sheer negligence on a sloppy set Random Boomer Aug 2022 #27
Just following the basic safety rules would have prevented death Kaleva Aug 2022 #30
When making a movie, you have to violate ManiacJoe Aug 2022 #58
And why point a gun at a person? Kaleva Aug 2022 #29
he was pointing it toward the camera; we've all seen those views before. oldsoftie Aug 2022 #31
Use a fake gun then for such shots Kaleva Aug 2022 #38
If it were you or I we'd both already have been charged with something. oldsoftie Aug 2022 #40
There are no accidents when it comes to guns Kaleva Aug 2022 #68
Absolutely. Kid Berwyn Aug 2022 #34
That will do it. Aussie105 Aug 2022 #60
He pointed the gun at the camera because he was requested to to do so so they could Martin68 Aug 2022 #45
Every adult with a gun in their hand bears 100 of the responsibility Kaleva Aug 2022 #52
The actor isn't qualified to track or recognize what type of ammo, blank, or dummy rnd is in the gun Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2022 #56
I'm talking about gun safety. You are talking about something else. Kaleva Aug 2022 #62
What Hassin said... Martin68 Aug 2022 #70
Hassin wasn't talking about following basic gun safety rules Kaleva Aug 2022 #71
Kaleva, don't you understand that actors are often required to point guns at people and pull the Martin68 Aug 2022 #73
"I was told to do it" has never been a valid defense Kaleva Aug 2022 #75
Ok, Kevin, I guess we'll just have to let a court of law settle the matter. Would you change your Martin68 Aug 2022 #76
You can defend an idiot with a gun all you want Kaleva Aug 2022 #77
Baldwins political future? You gotta be kidding with that one. oldsoftie Aug 2022 #32
He was a popular, liberal Democrat. Kid Berwyn Aug 2022 #33
He's also an asshole with a horrible temper. He'd never win a Dem primary. oldsoftie Aug 2022 #35
I just can't imagine how Baldwin felt after the gun went off and he realized the gun was loaded with Martin68 Aug 2022 #44
He was also the on-set Producer, who was very much responsible for the entire set NullTuples Aug 2022 #54
I don't believe it is a producer or an actor who has the responsibility for sage handling of a Martin68 Aug 2022 #69
He's such a hot head who seems unable to control his temper. Raine Aug 2022 #57
The gun was supposed to have blanks in it. ManiacJoe Aug 2022 #59
The armorer wasn't on the set ripcord Aug 2022 #72
Baldwin handled the gun correctly. Aussie105 Aug 2022 #61
If you mean he killed someone with it, then yes, Kaleva Aug 2022 #65

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
2. Well, it means he lied repeatedly about not pulling the trigger.
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 07:41 PM
Aug 2022

I'm guessing that will be used against him both as the person who pulled the trigger and as the Producer on set in any lawsuits, fines, etc..

Irish_Dem

(47,014 posts)
3. Would his liability be more civil or could criminal charges come into it now?
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 07:43 PM
Aug 2022

Thank you for the information!

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
41. He was handed a gun with a live round in it.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 06:18 PM
Aug 2022

Stop it.

His recollection is that he didn't pull the trigger.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
46. He was also the on-set Producer running a non-union shop to cut costs
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:37 PM
Aug 2022

As producer he ignored worker safety complaints even after a number of them walked off the set in either protest or fear for their own safety.

As producer he forced the conditions where someone was going to pull the trigger on a gun loaded with live ammunition.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
47. So non union workers are inferior?
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:50 PM
Aug 2022

Is that your argument?

He was working as an actor when this happened.

The fact that he was one of many producers of the picture is irrelevant.

Eta if you weren't anonymous, he could sue you for that second paragraph.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
48. Union shops protect their workers. It was already clear that was not a safe shop.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:52 PM
Aug 2022

Also, he was working as both producer and actor that day, and as he was the producer on-set, he called the shots.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
49. Barely 10 percent of Americans are union members.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:55 PM
Aug 2022

And they don't protect workers any or more or less than the 1000s of companies who aren't part of a union.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
50. I get it, you are not pro-union. Still, on movie sets unions pushed for strict rules regarding guns
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 08:03 PM
Aug 2022

Last edited Sun Aug 14, 2022, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

- and they make sure they are enforced, to keep workers safe.

Arguing about unions in other industries is a distraction, a false argument. A fallacy.

Simply put, if that set was union, the accident would not have happened. Or if you prefer, the chance of it happening would have been incredibly small.

Baldwin chose to not run a shop that was safe for his workers.

There were prior accidents.

It was so bad, even at the risk of being blacklisted, workers walked.

People were *playing* with the guns during down-time, using them to target practice with live ammunition.

Those are things that would not have happened if he'd valued his workers enough to ensure their safety.

As a producer - and the one on-set - that all falls on him.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
51. The degree of workplace safety in not tied to union membership.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 08:48 PM
Aug 2022

In any type of business I'm aware of.

That's my point.

If you disagree that's fine, but your insulting millions of workers and management who take their jobs very seriously.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
53. Nice try; I never said safety was tied to union membership
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 10:18 PM
Aug 2022

But there is this:

"a one-percentage point increase in the unionized workforce was associated with a 2.8% decline in the rate of occupational fatalities."

https://scholars.org/contribution/how-unions-help-prevent-workplace-deaths-united-states

And this:

"Report: Union construction jobsites significantly safer than non-union sites"

https://theconstructionbroadsheet.com/report-union-construction-jobsites-significantly-safer-than-nonunion-site-p547-175.htm

And another:

"Conclusion: It was found that the OIIR of workplaces with a LU is lower than those without a LU. Moreover, those with the OSHC usually had a lower OIIR than those without."

Labor Union (LU)
Occupational Safety and Health Committee (OSHC)
Occupational Injury and Illness Rate (OIIR)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2093791111240034?via%3Dihub



...I can do this all day, there are hundreds listed.

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
74. You don't have to be anti-union to believe that a non-union worker can do the job just as well.
Wed Aug 17, 2022, 03:12 PM
Aug 2022

Unions are more about safe working conditions for workers, and commensurate pay, than any particularly superior ability to perform the job. I am pro-union and have been a union member, but I don't buy your argument here.

yardwork

(61,599 posts)
78. You're mistaken on several points.
Thu Aug 18, 2022, 08:14 AM
Aug 2022

First, as a producer, Baldwin probably has some liability for what happened. He wasn't just "working as an actor."

Second, there was nothing in that post that was actionable. Calm down. Baldwin is a public figure. People have the right to express opinions on internet websites.

azureblue

(2,146 posts)
67. and he could be right
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 11:49 AM
Aug 2022

I had an old revolver, and the trigger would often no "set' Right, when the hammer was pulled back. The spring was weak, So the pistol had a hair trigger. Plus, some revolvers have a 2 stage cocking mechanism that will sometimes not set the trigger all the way - pull the hammer back partway and the cylinder turns, but the trigger doesn't go all the way forward. -- Hence the old term, "Going off half cocked".

I don't see any blame on Alec. Whoever mixed up live fire ammo with blanks, and failed to pay attention when loading, that is the problem. He should have been handed an empty pistol.

yardwork

(61,599 posts)
80. As a producer, Baldwin was also responsible for the conditions on set that day.
Thu Aug 18, 2022, 08:18 AM
Aug 2022

It sounds like he may have been negligent. The courts will decide.

J_William_Ryan

(1,753 posts)
6. "Well, it means he lied repeatedly about not pulling the trigger."
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 08:06 PM
Aug 2022

Perhaps – depending on how familiar Baldwin is with the firearm.

The Colt Single Action Army revolver model of 1873 (or clone) has the classic hair-trigger – the slightest touch can discharge the weapon.

Baldwin may not have intentionally pulled the trigger, believing he didn’t pull the trigger.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
8. Alec Baldwin on 'Rust' shooting: 'Someone is ​responsible ... but I know it's not me'
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 08:30 PM
Aug 2022

quotes from his interviews:

“And then this gun goes off.”

"Someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet that wasn't even supposed to be on the property," Baldwin said. "Someone is ​responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me."

Note: Baldwin wasn't just an actor, he was the Producer on set that day. Ensuring the safety of everyone working for him ultimately falls to him since he was making the cost-benefit decisions when it came to said safety.

From: https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-responsible/story?id=81490389

To get the shot, Baldwin said he needed to cock the gun, but not fire it: “The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.”

“I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin said. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”

“So, you never pulled the trigger?” Stephanopoulos asked.

“No, no, no, no, no,” Baldwin said. “I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them.”

Torraco, Halls’ attorney, corroborated Baldwin’s account on Thursday, saying Halls told her “from day one” that he was watching from three or four feet away and “the entire time Baldwin had his finger outside the trigger guard parallel to the barrel … that Alec did not pull that trigger."

stopdiggin

(11,302 posts)
9. I'll go with the 'forensics' on this
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 08:37 PM
Aug 2022

But, yes - a single action revolver (which many people today are not familiar with) can be quite 'touchy' with the hammer pulled back. Which, incidentally must be done manually (thumbed back) - and would be necessary in either firing the weapon, or 'simulating' fire (for cinematic purposes). There is also such a thing as an incomplete hammer cocking action (human error) - where the hammer, having not reached a 'locked' position, falls forward when released.

In any case, I can see no conceivable excuse for live ammunition - or even worse, a weapon containing live ammunition - being anywhere near a live set. That - and that alone - is where the vast preponderance of fault lies here.

Response to stopdiggin (Reply #9)

JohnnyRingo

(18,628 posts)
11. Hair trigger perhaps, but only when the hammer is cocked.
Sat Aug 13, 2022, 08:59 PM
Aug 2022

As a single action, the trigger doesn't do anything when the hammer is at rest. So why was the gun cocked and ready to fire?

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
26. Most clones of Colt SAA come with a factory trigger of not less than 7lbs.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 11:24 AM
Aug 2022

This is not a "hair trigger" it is heavy enough to be felt by the shooter. This is done as a precaution against just this type of incident.

Farmer-Rick

(10,163 posts)
28. Yeah, my instructor always said
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 12:24 PM
Aug 2022

Pull steadily on the trigger so that you are almost surprised that the gun fires. It was a good technique to keep from jerking your weapon.

I could see pulling a trigger and not being aware you pulled it. He could actually believe he didn't pull it. If you have any experience with weapons, it's almost natural to pull the trigger. That's why kids frequently shoot off firearms by accident when they are around them.


Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
13. Alec Baldwin exclusive: 'The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger'
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 12:39 AM
Aug 2022
ABC News

"I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger at them, never," Baldwin told Stephanopoulos in a first look at the upcoming interview, which is produced by George Stephanopoulos Productions. It will air Thursday at 8 p.m. ET on ABC and streaming on Hulu.

"Someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet that wasn't even supposed to be on the property," he added.


So the FBI is stating that Baldwin's account of events doesn't wash. The trigger had to have been pulled. However, that still does not answer the question about why live ammunition was in the firearm. That would be the responsibility of the armorer, not the actor.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
16. Much of the crew had walked off the set with complaints about safety on set
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 04:12 AM
Aug 2022

If that story is true (and I've never seen anything to the contrary) it does suggest that there was a real weakness when it came to safety on the set of the movie, which could fall on the producers

Roy Rolling

(6,917 posts)
17. "Lied Repeatedly"
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 06:10 AM
Aug 2022

The link to an upcoming show promo story doesn’t report repeated lies by Baldwin. The wording is factually incorrect, and it’s important in such a tragedy to remain unbiased and not editorialize about the event.

Finding blame will be revealed by a thorough criminal investigation, the family and friends of the late Director of Photography deserve nothing less.

Implying carelessness and repeated infractions by Baldwin isn’t supported by the evidence nor conclusion of the investigation.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
14. The second question is the one I think needs to be settled.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 12:45 AM
Aug 2022

Why didn't he check? He made a bad assumption is my best guess. He relied on the armorer to have handed him a firearm with blanks or no ammo. However, even blanks pose a serious danger. Jon Erik Hexum paid with his life for that mistake when he put a gun loaded with a blank to his head and pulled the trigger. A chunk of his skull was sent into his brain from the force of the muzzle blast.

This film may very well spell the end of working firearms on film sets. Going forward, prop guns will likely be used, and muzzle blasts, smoke, and sound will be added by SFX in post-production.

oldsoftie

(12,533 posts)
18. Wow, there's a name from the past I hadnt heard in a long time!
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:08 AM
Aug 2022

Man did the women LOVE him back in the day.
I forgot how he died.
I've actually been shot by a blank round so I understand what you mean.

Random Boomer

(4,168 posts)
22. Checking a gun is not the actor's reponsibility
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 10:00 AM
Aug 2022

No well-run set depends on an actor -- who doesn't necessarily have any familiarity with weapons -- to check the status of the gun they're handed. That is the job of props. There is supposed to be a chain of "ownership" of the weapon as it is checked, prepped and then handed to the actor. If a weapon is declared "cold", as this one apparently was, the actor has to trust in the crew.

By all accounts the weapons master on the set was young and although she had worked with props for years, this was her first job as a master. There were also many reports of loose handling of weapons, poor control and a production assistant who cut corners. It was the PA who handed the weapon to the actor and declared it a cold gun.

The direct responsibility lies on the weapons master and the PA; it was their job to keep the set safe. But the production company also bear some of the blame for not immediately responding to crew complaints about safety issues.

ripcord

(5,372 posts)
24. Checking the gun is the responsibilty of anyone who handles a firearm
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 10:30 AM
Aug 2022

The armorer wasn't on the set at the time, the gun was left outside the set on a cart. The producers, one of which is Baldwin btw, decided that the armorer would be of more use working with props at the time rather than being on the set when a weapon was being used.

Random Boomer

(4,168 posts)
25. Directly contrary to what I've read
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 11:14 AM
Aug 2022

From the accounts I've read from weapon masters in the movie industry, the last thing they want is the actors being involved in this process. Actors would rarely have the expertise to know what to look for in a weapon to declare it safe to handle.

There are different kinds of ammunition for different purposes, and with different levels of safety depending on how they're fired. They can't just peek inside and have any clue what has been loaded, and if they take the ammunition out of the gun, they are breaking the chain of possession and increasing the risk of issues, not decreasing them.

Baldwin is absolutely responsible as a producer -- he's a seasoned actor and should have recognized the issues that cost-cutting was creating. But it wasn't his responsibility to check the weapon itself; that's a job for the professionals he apparently wasn't willing to hire.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
36. The answer, like a lot of answers, depends who you ask
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 03:05 PM
Aug 2022

On a stage or a film set, a stage firearm is generally regarded as a prop, and the responsibility of ensuring that the correct props are present falls to the prop master. Prip weapons are generally the responsibility of a specialist- the armorer. However, those with firearms experience- especially those who have been in the armed services- have been trained to regard any firearm as loaded unless told otherwise by competent authority and even then are inclined to check for themselves.

In this instance Baldwin did not check, but was ostensibly told that it was a cold gun by the armorer.

ripcord

(5,372 posts)
37. He wasn't handed the pistol by the armorer
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 04:34 PM
Aug 2022

The armorer wasn't on the set at the time of the shooting, the assist director handed him the gun. I want to know exactly who decided the armorer shouldn't be on the set to do her job when actual firearms were being used.

By law the person holding a gun is responsible for its safe handling and use, there are no exceptions in the law for movies.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
43. Doesn't matter, he was on set
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 06:25 PM
Aug 2022

And had every reason to believe it was a prop.

Why would he assume it had a live round in it?

Maybe someone who hated him put a live round in the revolver.

We don't know. What we do know is that there were bullets on the set of this movie.


ripcord

(5,372 posts)
64. It doesn't matter that he was on set
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 11:16 AM
Aug 2022

The regulations for handling guns on movie productions are set by insurance companies not by law. The law says the person holding the gun is responsible for its safe handling, this is not superseded by movie and insurance company regulations.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
63. I'm not arguing that you aren't correct.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 11:12 AM
Aug 2022

I suspect Baldwin's attorneys will assert that he did not think he was holding a firearm; he thought he was holding a stage prop. Will that work? IDK

I apologize about the armorer. You are correct about the AD and your question about that absence is spot-on.

Aussie105

(5,388 posts)
20. When you cock one of these things by pulling back on the hammer
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 09:11 AM
Aug 2022

your finger needs to be well away from the trigger.

If you want to lower the hammer, you need to pull back on the hammer against spring tension, pull the trigger, and slowly lower the hammer.
Let the hammer slip or lower it too fast, the thing will go off.

Only if there is a live round under the hammer of course.

Even without a live round under the hammer, you lower it carefully as not to damage the hammer. Not good for it to fall on an empty chamber.

Why a live round in that gun? Some crew members had been taking pot shots with it earlier, it was handed to Baldwin believing it was cold when it wasn't.

Someone should have checked. The armourer, or Baldwin himself. Takes mere seconds.

Not the first time nor the last. This accidental discharge death just happen to have occurred on a movie set.

Kid Berwyn

(14,897 posts)
23. Who put live ammo in a prop?
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 10:04 AM
Aug 2022

Priorities, please.

Whoever did that not only killed an innocent woman, he or she ended Baldwin’s political future.

Random Boomer

(4,168 posts)
27. Sheer negligence on a sloppy set
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 11:25 AM
Aug 2022

From some reports, during lunch break a bunch of crew members were shooting at a target with a gun they picked up off of the unsupervised props table. No gun should have ever left the possession of the armourer. No guns at all should have been allowed anywhere on the shooting location, and no one on the set should have been shooting them for any reason.

When it was time for a scene with a firearm, the armourer should have carefully inspected and loaded the gun in the presence of the Production Assistant, declared it "cold" and then personally handed it to the PA (instead he just took it off the table). The PA would then walk the gun over to the actor and personally hand it to him and repeat that it was a "cold" gun. The minute the scene was over, the PA would take back possession of the gun and return it to the armourer.

On some sets, the armourer insists on doing the inspection and prep right in front of the actor and handing it to them directly, not even allowing a PA to enter the chain of possession.

So many safeguards were ignored -- all of which exist for a reason -- that it was probably inevitable that a mistake would happen. This one turned out to be deadly.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
30. Just following the basic safety rules would have prevented death
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 12:37 PM
Aug 2022

Always assume the gun is loaded and never point it as something you aren't willing to destroy

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
58. When making a movie, you have to violate
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 05:02 AM
Aug 2022

most of the safety rules. That is why you have the proper gun and prop managers on set to load and verify the guns with the proper blanks.

This whole thing is a mess because a few idiots purposely brought live ammo onto the set in violation of all the movie set rules.

oldsoftie

(12,533 posts)
31. he was pointing it toward the camera; we've all seen those views before.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 01:02 PM
Aug 2022

So when he fired it hit the people behind the camera

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
38. Use a fake gun then for such shots
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 05:33 PM
Aug 2022

No excuse whatsoever for violating basic gun safety rules .

I'd like to know what kind of training Baldwin had before the filming began as it was known by him and many others he'd be handling a gun capable of firing lives rounds.

Treating gun safety like a joke often ends of badly.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
68. There are no accidents when it comes to guns
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 11:52 AM
Aug 2022

There is only negligence and it is sometimes criminal negligence.

Kid Berwyn

(14,897 posts)
34. Absolutely.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 01:28 PM
Aug 2022

Not to make an excuse, but I remember Baldwin saying the gun fired as he picked it up; he had not aimed at anyone.



Alec Baldwin Details How the Gun Went Off in Fatal 'Rust' Shooting, Says He Is Not Responsible

By Zach Seemayer
Entertainment Tonight, December 2, 2021

Alec Baldwin is opening up for the first time about the fatal shooting on the set of Rust. In his first sit-down interview since the incident back in October, the 63-year-old actor got emotional and candid while reflecting on the tragedy that left cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, dead, and injured director Joel Souza

Recalling the shooting itself, Baldwin claims that he never actually pulled the trigger. Instead, he and Hutchins were filming an insert shot of Baldwin drawing the gun, and she wanted to get an angle of him pulling back the hammer on the revolver.

As has been reported, Baldwin was told by the Assistant Director, Dave Halls, that the gun was "cold," meaning it did not contain ammunition that could be discharged -- including blank rounds. With that in mind, Baldwin claimed it was Hutchins who directed him where to point the gun to get the angle she wanted to film.

"I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off," Baldwin said, explaining that he had "pulled the hammer as far back as I could without cocking the gun."

continues…

https://www.etonline.com/alec-baldwin-recalls-details-of-tragic-rust-shooting-in-emotional-first-interview-176007



And, yes, as made clear on this and so many threads on guns, never point a gun at anyone or anything you don’t want to kill.

Aussie105

(5,388 posts)
60. That will do it.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 09:20 AM
Aug 2022

Pulling back the hammer but not to the point where it locks on fully cocked, then letting go of the hammer will slam it down on the chamber.
Hard enough to fire the gun, if there is a live round under it.

"I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off," Baldwin said, explaining that he had "pulled the hammer as far back as I could without cocking the gun."

Effectively the same as 'fanning' the hammer, you keep the trigger pulled, pull back the hammer and let go - the gun fires.
Repeat for rapid shots.

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
45. He pointed the gun at the camera because he was requested to to do so so they could
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:16 PM
Aug 2022

check out the shot. He bears absolutely no responsibility for pulling the trigger on a gun that was supposed to be guaranteed safe. Whoever handed it to him had the responsibility to insure that. Unless Baldwin has been around guns a lot, he probably wouldn't even think to check the gun first.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
52. Every adult with a gun in their hand bears 100 of the responsibility
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 09:38 PM
Aug 2022

Baldwin is supposedly an intelligent adult and he should have been well aware of the fact that guns are dangerous and one needs proper training on how to safely handle them.

Some people excuse him by saying he was told to point the gun in a certain direction and he had to do it. Bullshit. Baldwin is no child nor is he a special needs adult.

An innocent person is dead because Baldwin is just another idiot with a gun. Thousands die or are seriously injured every year because of them .

If Baldwin didn't want to bother with attending safety training and taking that training seriously, then a prop gun should have been used. One incapable of firing anything. There would have been nothing wrong with that.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,326 posts)
56. The actor isn't qualified to track or recognize what type of ammo, blank, or dummy rnd is in the gun
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 11:08 PM
Aug 2022

People are assuming the movie set works like their local range where the gun is either loaded or not.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
62. I'm talking about gun safety. You are talking about something else.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 09:48 AM
Aug 2022

Gun safety can be taught in a classroom or even on line. One doesn't need to know how to load, unload, or fire a gun in order to handle it safely by following the four basic rules.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
71. Hassin wasn't talking about following basic gun safety rules
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 02:38 PM
Aug 2022

Had the rules been followed, the woman would be alive today.

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
73. Kaleva, don't you understand that actors are often required to point guns at people and pull the
Wed Aug 17, 2022, 03:05 PM
Aug 2022

trigger. There are people on set whose responsibility it is to insure that such guns are neither loaded nor dangerous. The actor's job it to do what he or she is told as realistically as possible. It's not a shooting range. It's a movie set.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
75. "I was told to do it" has never been a valid defense
Wed Aug 17, 2022, 03:35 PM
Aug 2022

It may be done but it doesn't excuse actors from doing something they ought to know is dangerous. I wouldn't do it because I value life over money and I don't think you'd do it either.

Baldwin is no rookie just starting out. He's an established star and in this movie, he was also a producer. He is culpable for the death of an innocent. The gun was in his hand and he negligently ignored simple to understand safety rules. One of which is to always treat the gun as if it is loaded and the other is to never point it at anything you are not willing to destroy.

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
76. Ok, Kevin, I guess we'll just have to let a court of law settle the matter. Would you change your
Wed Aug 17, 2022, 03:38 PM
Aug 2022

opinion of a court ruled otherwise?

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
77. You can defend an idiot with a gun all you want
Thu Aug 18, 2022, 07:21 AM
Aug 2022

I won't. Baldwin probably won't be criminally charged but he may be sued. Often nothing happens to these people and it's called an "accident". Baldwin may be turn up by guilt for the rest of his life and deservedly so.

All of which could be avoided had Baldwin realized guns are dangerous and one needs training in order to safely handle one.

Kid Berwyn

(14,897 posts)
33. He was a popular, liberal Democrat.
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 01:18 PM
Aug 2022
Political foes revel in Baldwin’s role in movie-set shooting

Right-wing pundits and politicians have long chafed at the actor's criticism of former President Donald Trump.


By ASSOCIATED PRESS / via Politico
10/26/2021

NEW YORK — Details are still emergingabout how Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed a cinematographer on a New Mexico film set, but some political onlookers swiftly assigned guilt to one of Hollywood’s most prominent liberals.

Right-wing pundits and politicians have long chafed at Baldwin’s criticism of former President Donald Trump and his Trump parody on “Saturday Night Live.” They wasted little time zeroing in on the actor who pulled the trigger. The hashtag #AlecForPrison ricocheted around Twitter.

Within hours of the shooting, Ohio Republican Senate candidate J.D. Vance asked Twitter to let Trump back on the social media platform that banned him after the Capitol insurrection. “We need Alec Baldwin tweets,” Vance wrote.

By Monday, Trump’s oldest son was selling $28 T-shirts on his official website with the slogan “Guns don’t kill people, Alec Baldwin kills people.” The post was later removed.

Snip…

“Literally not one single thing that Alec Baldwin has said about Donald Trump and his supporters is going to age well,” tweeted conservative commentator Candace Owens.

Continues…

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/alec-baldwin-film-shooting-political-fallout-517171

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
44. I just can't imagine how Baldwin felt after the gun went off and he realized the gun was loaded with
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 07:13 PM
Aug 2022

live ammunition. No actor on the set is responsible for an accident like that. There are props people who re supposed to make sure the set is safe.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
54. He was also the on-set Producer, who was very much responsible for the entire set
Sun Aug 14, 2022, 10:39 PM
Aug 2022

He chose to go non-union to save costs
He chose to do nothing when people walked off the set due to safety violations
He chose to ignore that people were "playing" with the set guns with live ammo using them for target practice during off hours.

This is on him. And the other producers, but he was the one on site. He knew the most about what was happening.

Martin68

(22,794 posts)
69. I don't believe it is a producer or an actor who has the responsibility for sage handling of a
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 12:29 PM
Aug 2022

Last edited Thu Aug 18, 2022, 08:20 AM - Edit history (1)

gun on set. Union or not, there are strict rules on the handling of weapons and who is responsible for enforcing them.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
57. He's such a hot head who seems unable to control his temper.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 03:10 AM
Aug 2022

I'm sure he certainly never meant to kill or hurt anyone. He probably had a temper tantrum, lost control and fired the gun.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
59. The gun was supposed to have blanks in it.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 05:06 AM
Aug 2022

The prop masters and gun masters did not verify the gun like their jobs require.

A few idiots brought live ammo onto the set in violation of all the set rules.

ripcord

(5,372 posts)
72. The armorer wasn't on the set
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 08:30 PM
Aug 2022

It was decided it was more important for her to be working with the prop master than being on the set when a firearm is in use. We need to find out who made that decision.

Aussie105

(5,388 posts)
61. Baldwin handled the gun correctly.
Mon Aug 15, 2022, 09:35 AM
Aug 2022

It was a real gun, a genuine historically accurate one - no blanks, a 'cold' gun. Supposedly.

You could have used it safely to hammer nails in. Supposedly.

Except for it having a live round in it. Totally safe otherwise.

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