Visa, Mastercard, AmEx to start categorizing gun shop sales

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By KEN SWEET

NEW YORK (AP) — Payment processor Visa Inc. said Saturday that it plans to start separately categorizing sales at gun shops, a major win for gun control advocates who say it will help better track suspicious surges of gun sales that could be a prelude to a mass shooting.

But the decision by Visa, the world’s largest payment processor, will likely provoke the ire of gun rights advocates and gun lobbyists, who have argued that categorizing gun sales would unfairly flag an industry when most sales do not lead to mass shootings. It joins Mastercard and American Express, which also said they plan to move forward with categorizing gun shop sales.

Visa said it would adopt the International Organization for Standardization’s new merchant code for gun sales, which was announced on Friday. Until Friday, gun store sales were considered “general merchandise.”

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” the payment processor said in a statement.



FILE - Visa credit cards are seen on Aug. 11, 2019, in New Orleans. Payment processor Visa Inc. said late Saturday, Sept. 10, 2022, that it plans to start separately categorizing sales at gun shops. (AP Photo/Jenny Kane, File)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-shootings-new-york-city-politics-4aae50c67e40f9683f604a8683acc391?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_6

[groundloop]

1. This makes perfect sense (and it's gonna' drive gun nuts crazy)

[jimfields33]

4. Most will just do cash buys at least at first

Eventually they will see it as not a big deal they thought it was.

[Novara]

5. I'm wondering how many 18 year olds with arsenals buy on credit

This is a good thing, and way overdue. I am wondering about the practical application of this. Do the credit card companies alert law enforcement if they see large purchases - or several small ones - from a particular individual?

Let's play the tape forward. Visa flags an 18 year old who made a purchase of several guns and enough ammo to blow up Fort Knox. They alert the police. The police pay him a visit. Then what? They can't confiscate the guns if they don't have probable cause or a red flag warning. Not to mention that the first time a credit card company alerts law enforcement, there will be a lawsuit. It'll probably end up in this shitty SCOTUS who will strike it down.

I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm wondering how this will work.

[jimfields33]

7. I don't think paying a visit is necessary

But keeping an eye out for the individual isn’t a bad thing for police to do. They do with other crimes so this just adds to it. I think it would take the constitutional question out of it. Observing individuals is not bad for police to do.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

16. Buying guns with a credit card isn't a crime yet.

I wish it was, but it's not. I dont think the police will bother trying.

[Rebl2]

9. If they buy

with cash, the store should be required to take a picture of buyer and hold for one year. I’m sure they have cameras filming transactions though, but don’t know how long they hold video’s.

[jimfields33]

11. Now your getting into constitutional muck

Of course video is ok. Most keep video for a long as they have “tape” and it goes through process again erasing old material. Probably 48 hours.

[Polybius]

17. These days, it's much longer than that

With digital video, it's usually two weeks. More if you pay a premium, and then it will be on a server.

[jimfields33]

20. That is much better.

[sl8]

14. They're already required to keep the Form 4473 forever.

Last edited Sun Sep 11, 2022, 01:49 PM - Edit history (1)

If they go out of business, they're required to turn over all Form 4473s to the ATF.

Why single out cash customers for mandatory photos?

[LuckyLib]

2. Every item you purchase is traceable, down to size, manufacturer, etc.

“General merchandise?” Yeah, decades of lobbying is more like it.

[sl8]

19. By MCC code?

Last edited Sun Sep 11, 2022, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

From what I've gleaned so far, they're talking about a new MCC code, which is for the type of retailer, not for individual items that might be sold there.

I've read that Level III code would contain details about items sold, but I think that's different than this new change.

I'd never heard of an MCC code before today, so I might be misunderstanding.

On edit:

Apparently, large stores can have multiple codes, e.g., one for the pharmacy one for groceries, one for general merchandise.

[cstanleytech]

3. Personally I think such a thing is ok provided they do not sell the data to any third party however

the data should is some limited circumstanced be provided to law enforcement.
Those circumstances are things like when a crime is being committed by a person such as robbery or if a warrant has been served to the companies.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. How you gonna MAGAt without credit? First porn, now guns. Everything's illegal. /nt

[Lemon Lyman]

8. Hmm

You wouldn't think they'd mind (sarcasm). But really, aren't righties the ones who always say (with regard to being watched and such) that "If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about?"

[dlk]

10. Gun purchases are certainly in their own special category of consumer purchases-deadly ones

Better late than never.

[LiberalFighter]

12. If they aren't doing anything wrong why should they care?

[Polybius]

18. I would care

Not that I would ever buy a gun (I live in NYC, too much work), but if I did it would be a privacy issue. I'd pay cash because I wouldn't want to be on the nut list.

[LiberalFighter]

13. There is nothing general merchandise about gun sales.

[twodogsbarking]

15. Double rewards points for purchase of a weapon of class destruction.

[J_William_Ryan]

21. Conservatives will of course advance the lie

that this is some nefarious conspiracy to ‘disarm America’ by making it more difficult to purchase firearms – particularly online.

[melm00se]

22. This would be applied unequally as

not every firearm is sold thru a gun store.

Firearms are sold at Walmart, general sporting goods stores, outdoor stores, hardware stores, pawn shops etc.

So some will firearm purchases will come thru as general merchandise sales from a sporting goods store and people with bad intent will know this and alter their buying patterns.

Or Bob, who may be "known" to police, will buy a bunch of fishing gear that will come thru coded as firearms, the police will roll up to his house and kick down the door with no other evidence than the merchandise code report...especially if Bob is African-American.