Tanks for Ukraine: Germany to send Leopard 2s and allow others to export - reports
Source: BBC News
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has decided to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, and allow other countries to do the same, reports in Germany say.
Leopard 2s are made in Germany and Berlin needs to approve their export.
Germany has been hesitant to send its own - or allow other nations to send theirs - over concerns it could escalate the conflict with Russia.
Now, after international pressure, Mr Scholz has decided to send at least 14 Leopard 2s, German outlets say.
Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64391272?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA
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sinkingfeeling
(51,473 posts)GB_RN
(2,373 posts)I'd be willing to bet that we've been training Ukrainian tankers on the M1-Abrams for months now, and that we might see a "decision" to send some of those - fitting with the timeline of the end of training for tank/maintenance crews. I read yesterday that the Biden Administration has been rethinking their stance on (not) sending the M1-Abrams...and this also would fit that timeline (about a year of total training). Read into this what you will.
Edit to add: From the WSJ: US Leans Towards Providing Abrams Tanks To Ukraine
From Daily Kos, on that article:
On Tuesday morning, The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the United States is leaning toward sending M1A2 main battle tanks Abrams tanks to Ukraine, with an announcement expected this week.
The announcement would reportedly come as part of a deal in which Germany would also send its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and would include Germany approving the release of Leopard tanks to be sent by other nations. The deal would break the deadlock created when Germany refused to release the Leopard tanks even after the U.K. announced that it was providing a company of its Challenger 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine.
The U.S. has previously been resistant to the idea of sending the Abrams, for a long series of reasons, including the difficulties in supporting the tank and its impact of Ukraines already burdened logistics. Pentagon officials have repeatedly stated that they feel the M1A2 isnt well suited to Ukraine, for reasons ranging from the fuel to the long time needed to train on the vehicles to the lack of any nearby facilities to deal with major repairs.
However, Biden reportedly shifted his position following a Jan. 17 call to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. If sending the Abrams is the only way to break through the current roadblock, Biden appears ready to take that step.
Emphasis mine. The M1A2 is the most up-to-date version of the Abrams tank (previous iterations being the M1, and M1-A1).
PortTack
(32,793 posts)Willfully and with intent. But it also needs to shift to the national archives keeping of said documents. Seems they fell down on the job
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,036 posts)Aristus
(66,462 posts)Of course, they always have the choice to scurry back across the border to the Motherland.
ColinC
(8,329 posts)Kennah
(14,315 posts)ColinC
(8,329 posts)patphil
(6,207 posts)SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)but Ukraine needs a level playing field with Russia. I wish Putin would stop this madness. He stands zero chance of defeating Ukraine now, and all he's doing is ending the lives of his own people and Ukrainians. His big macho ego won't allow him to stop. It's madness 😠.
LudwigPastorius
(9,170 posts)Putin wants to ensure the survival of Russia and himself.
I hope the Pentagon and NATO are at least considering the possibility that he is terminally ill and feels that he has nothing to lose.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)by a few generals or government officials. The moment he starts getting ideas about ending the world some of them will step in and stop him. Putin probably has children all over Russia. I don't think he'd be too cavalier with their lives.
At least I hope not. 🙄
johnnyfins
(829 posts)How is Germany allowed to make tanks? WTF? Am I living in an alternate reality right now? I know that they have been a democratic state for a long time, but REALLY????? Look at the pic. The Iron Cross????????????
orangecrush
(19,617 posts)Where have you been?
We gave them Lockheed Starfighters to fight the Russians back in the 60's!
One truly badass (and dangerous!) aircraft, if I say so myself!
LudwigPastorius
(9,170 posts)And, the Iron Cross was a Prussian/German military symbol 120 years before the Nazis came along.
Igel
(35,356 posts)It existed before the Nazis warped it (could say the same thing about WWI) and after.
In the early '70s my 6th grade field trip was to DC. Smithsonian and nearby points. Wanted a souvenir, bought a big blue cross. Hadn't seen an iron cross. Little demons didn't jump up to say, "Ha! You're a Nazi." My father looked askance at it for two reasons: He fought in WWII (okay, he was on the way to fight when Japan surrendered and so his minesweeper checked Tokyo Harbor and he was on deck for the signing of the treaty ... the Fitch). But mostly he looked askance at the blue thing because it was at the time for young people associated more with being a hippie.
Somehow the last bit has no real Internet memory that I can find in 90 seconds' Googling. Then again it was an eddy in a backwater of the river of discourse.
But there's this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross
And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr_Cross_of_Honour_for_Valour .
IronLionZion
(45,528 posts)and will continue to exist long after
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
West Germany was allowed to militarize in 1955 to defend against the Soviets in East Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr#Cold_War:_1955%E2%80%931990
Next you'll be shocked to find out about Japan's military
orangecrush
(19,617 posts)myohmy2
(3,176 posts)...however...
...how are the Ukrainians ever going to operate, maintain, supply and repair this hodge-podge of Western/NATO military equipment...?
...they must be ambidextrous...
orangecrush
(19,617 posts)Are very user friendly, from what I hear.
That's why they prefer them, much shorter training
littlemissmartypants
(22,797 posts)orangecrush
(19,617 posts)Warpy
(111,339 posts)because Poland was sending them, period. Now Germany will have to do things: save face and preserve their market share in heavy tanks. The UK might be snapping at their heels.
littlemissmartypants
(22,797 posts)Layzeebeaver
(1,635 posts)Seriously, the west needs to get off its arse and go all-in on the equipment.
How about a full battalion on Leopard 2? rather than a couple of platoons.
Frankly, Ukraine need tanks, and anti-tank weapons as well.
Russia is on a knife edge at the moment - if we provide the necessary tools, the Ukrainian military can do wonders.
Just do it already!
Ray Bruns
(4,111 posts)Second: Germany has to keep its own stockpile full. If takes a lot of time and money to build a western tank.
Western tanks are much more armored and sophisticated than the T72 and T80. It takes time to train not only the crews but an entire unit to work with each other. Thats why this decision should have been made last year. Delaying it only continues to drag out the war.