Pelosi joins call to halt U.S. weapons transfers to Israel

[demmiblue]

Source: Axios

Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) signed onto a call by progressive members of Congress for the U.S. to stop transferring weapons to Israel over a strike that killed seven aid workers in Gaza.

Why it matters: It's a significant break with Israel by a long-standing supporter that underscores growing fissures between Democrats and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government.

Driving the news: The letter, led by Reps. Mark Pocan (D-Wisc.), Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) and Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), was released on Friday with 37 signatures from 37 other Democrats, including Pelosi.

"In light of the recent strike against aid workers and the ever-worsening humanitarian crisis, we believe it is unjustifiable to approve these weapons transfers," the lawmakers wrote to President Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Read more: https://www.axios.com/2024/04/05/pelosi-call-halt-us-weapons-transfers-israel

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Link to tweet

[Novara]

1. MORE OF THIS, PLEASE.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

2. Happy to see it!!!

[WheelWalker]

3. I agree. It's time-and-a-half past time...

and more.

[lark]

4. Pelosi is so damn good, so glad she's on our side!

[riversedge]

6. Yes, and Pelosi carries a lot of influence with her. Go Nancy!!

[pecosbob]

5. Nancy rockin' democracy...

[BigmanPigman]

7. Good. Good. GOOD!

[Voltaire2]

8. When you've lost Pelosi it's time to listen.

No more weapons. Ceasefire now.

[SunSeeker]

10. Pelosi did not call for "no more weapons," nor did she call for a "ceasefire now."

She only called for withholding the "offensive weapons" listed in the letter until an investigation of the deaths of the 7 WCK aid workers is completed.

[flying_wahini]

9. Go and Get them, Nancy.

[NH Ethylene]

11. Excellent!

This needs to happen immediately. It's horrific that we are sending weapons used to kill innocent people and children - and aid workers!

[TBF]

12. It is heart-breaking for me to see what is happening to Israel on the world stage -

and like other American Jews and Israelis I am discouraged by Netanyahu's handling of this situation. With so many innocent folks ending up as collateral damage (from aid workers to Palestinian children) it is imperative to find another way.

But I have also been around awhile, and I know Hamas and Hezbollah view Israel as their enemy and many extremists within the group want to totally wipe out the Jewish population. I'm not sure what the answer is, but maybe a pause in fighting to try some diplomacy? I do like the two-state approach, but frankly I wouldn't want to live next to any state run by Hamas, so I'm even curious as to how that would work. But something has to give. So many senseless deaths, and the hostages STILL being held - it's day 183.

[TeamProg]

18. Read this Times Of ISrael piece and you won't feel so confused about Hamas as a political body.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/


For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

A LOT MORE AT LINK.

[TBF]

21. thanks - I will read it! nt

[ShazzieB]

22. Holy cow, EVERYONE needs to read this!

If you haven't already posted this as an o.p., please do!

I knew Bibi was awful, but after reading this, I can see that he is VERY much worse than I realized.

[TeamProg]

24. I posted this to Gen Disc months ago, please re-post if you are inclined to share.

Times Of Israel is a legitimate and accepted news source at DU.

Thanks!

[Mosby]

28. What item would you not do?

1. Allow Gazans to work in Israel.
2. Negotiate with the leaders of Gaza to maintain peace.
3. Allow other nations to provide aid to the Gazans.

TAL SCHNEIDER apparently thinks that all these things are bad, she wanted Bibi to prevent aid from going into Gaza, and that Gazans shouldn't be able to work in Israel. According to her deeply flawed anaysis, isolating Gaza from the West Bank would have prevented a reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah, but she fails to explain that part. Cuz it's stupid. The different factions in Palestinian society could negotiate any time they wanted over the past 20 years. Mahmoud Abbas could have called for elections any time he wanted, but he willfully prevented that from happening. Putting the onus on the government of Israel for lack of reconciliation between the various factions and terrorist groups is nothing more than well executed sophisty on the part of TAL SCHNEIDER.

[ShazzieB]

33. Source, please?

None of this is in the article posted by TeamProg that I was replying to.

The Time of Israel is a trusted Israeli news source. If there are other sources you'd like to share that tell a different story, feel free to do so. Otherwise, I'll ignore this, as I am not in the habit of taking anyone's word for things like this and do not have time to research all of the points you have brought up.

[Mosby]

34. It's all in the ToI piece

Thus, amid this (so called by Tal) bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
...
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.

So Bibi was letting Gazans work in Israel because that stopped reconciliation? Do you know how dumb that sounds?

Look, I know this article by Tal Schneider is virtually accepted as fact now, but the premise that Bibi somehow stopped a Palestinian state from being formed is ludicrous, and it uses typical tricks like stripping away ALL agency and responsibility from the Palestinians and their leaders, it intimates that allowing in Qatar humanitarian cash is somehow dirty and untoward, and maybe worse of all that allowing Palestinians the dignity of working and helping their families somehow subverted a two-state solution.

Media jerks like Tal are ensuring there will never be a Palestine, because when everything is Israel's fault then only Israel can fix it. No negotiations needed, the world just need to force the country to make concessions. She did this for money and prestige in her media community.

[ShazzieB]

41. I was in the middle of a long reply to this, but I got interrupted.

I set my phone down and when I came back, my reply-in-progress had vanished.

I don't have the time or energy to start over tonight as I'm supposed to be packing for a trip.

Sorry to leave this without a full response, but most likely we would not have changed each other's minds.

For now, I will just say this: I have read, in too many sources to list (even if I could recall all of them), that Netanyahu is widely known to be strongly opposed to a two-state solution or the creation of a Palestinian state. Because so many seem to be in agreement on this, I have not seen any reason to disbelieve it. I read this article from that standpoint, and that naturally colored my impressions.

Having a different view of Netanyahu's aims and intentions could color things in a different way. If I knew of any evidence that Bibi is interested in working with the Palestinians toward a two-state solution, I might have a different view of things.

[Richard D]

13. Day one of the imposed cease-fire . . .

. . . and the world breathes a collective sigh of release. Celebrations ensue.

Day 1.5 of the cease-fire: Hamas starts smuggling in more weapons, the training of terrorists goes full bore, new terror tunnels are built, and the planning with Iran for the next attack on Israel begins.

Then, at some point in the near future, they will attack again, making Oct 7 seem like the warm-up it was. The world will be shocked for about 24 hours, then will again start blaming Israel for everything. Hamas heads in their palaces in Qatar will party.

[TeamProg]

15. Day 2.5: Israel starts bombing the fuck out of innocent Palestinians and continues to invade and settle vacated lands.

Wow, that's was too easy and foreseeable.

[Richard D]

20. And, if Hamas attacks and starts another war . . .

. . . that is inevitable, as a war of defense needs to be. Or maybe you think Israel should just roll over and take it, cause, well, they are Jews?

[TeamProg]

26. That's your best response? Seriously? How about giving the Palestinians their land back as designated by the

1948 Partition?

That’d be the place to start.

[Basic LA]

29. Bravo

[Richard D]

30. Well gosh golly . . .

. . . you mean the 1948 partition that Israel agreed to? "Palestine" could have agreed to as well, yet they refused it by starting a war about since they wanted to have all of Israel? Didn't work out too well for them then, did it?

Something about "Right of Conquest" comes to mind.

[TeamProg]

31. No doubt Israel has a right to peacefully exist, but are you referring to the history of when there was no

Israel because Palestinians conquered Judea millennia ago? That kind of Right Of Conquest? Israel was generously GIVEN land for their own country after 1948, there was no "Conquest" over the Palestinians. If we cannot agree that land was stolen from the Palestinians in the 1948 Partition than there cannot be a reasonable conversation.

[Richard D]

32. Excuse me?

When exactly did Palestine conquer Israel? Inquiring minds want to know.

[TeamProg]

35. Judea

[Richard D]

36. Yes,

Judea in the south and Israel in the north.

I'm still very curious as to when "Palestine" conquered Judea and/or Israel.

[TeamProg]

37. During the Byzantine period, the area of modern Israel was known as Palestine. Through history, the area had been

conquered by Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Romans, Turks,

Edit add:

United Nations: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-206581/


Early in the second century A.D., the Emperor Hadrian prohibited the Jews from entering Jerusalem. From that period dates the dispersion of Jews throughout the world. Since then, until the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, no Jewish Government has existed in Palestine. Although some Jews have always lived in Palestine, their numbers have fluctuated depending on the tolerance of the successive rulers.



After the partition of the Roman Empire in 400 A.D., Palestine was under Byzantium’s rule until the Arab conquest in 637 A.D. On the then deserted site of Solomon’s Temple, the Mosque of Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock were constructed and called Haram-el Sharif. Second only to Mecca and Medina, Haram-el Sharif became a place of great sanctity for the Moslems.



After the interlude of the Crusades, from 1099 to 1190, Saladin, the Arab ruler, invited the Jews to return to Palestine.



In 1517, the Turks conquered the country and ruled it until the end of the First World War. Throughout this period, the Wailing Wall continued to be a place of devotion for the Jews.



In late 1917, British forces occupied Palestine.

[Richard D]

40. Yup.

The Romans renamed Judea and Israel Syria Palestina. But there never was a nation ruling or conquering Israel called Palestine.

It was renamed Syria Palestina by the Romans as a slap in the face to the Jews living there.

Interestingly, the name Palestine comes from the Greek Phillistia, so named because it was the land of the Philistines. The Philistines lived along the coast of the southern part of Caanan, now roughly Gaza. They originated in Crete and entered Israel around the 12th century BCE. King Nebuchadnezzar conquered them, and they ceased to exist as a people during the short Babylonian Empire.

A brief list of the rulers of the Holy Land:
Canaanites (before 1200 BCE)
Israelites (Jewish) (1200-586 BCE)
Neo-Babylonians (586-539 BCE)
Persians (539-332 BCE)
Macedonians (332-323 BCE)
Ptolemaic Egyptians (323-198 BCE)
Seleucids (198-140 BCE)
Hasmoneans (Jewish) (140-63 BCE)
Romans (63 BCE-313 CE)
Byzantines (313-636 CE)
Arabs (636-1099 CE)
Crusaders (1099-1187 CE)
Ayyubids (Kurdish) (1187-1260 CE)
Mamluks (1260-1516 CE)
Ottomans (1516-1917 CE)
British Mandate (AKA Mandatory Palestine) (1920-1948 CE)
Israel (1948-present) and Palestinian territories under various authorities (1948-present)

In short, no, the Palestinians never conquered, much less ruled either Judea or Israel.

[calimary]

42. The history is mind boggling!

[Richard D]

43. It is

Even scratching the very surface of the very surface is mind boggling.

[Big Blue Marble]

25. The question on the table at this time is how many more children must die,

lose their parents and family, and live the rest of their lives with damaged brains
from starvation, so that the IDF can track down the last of Hamas.

Your assumption that if Hamas were gone, there would be no threat is in error.
The violence, the resistance, and even the terrorism will re-emerge in another form.
Unless you allow people to live in dignity and autonomy with agency, they
will keep resisting just as you or I would.

[TeamProg]

14. This is what is know as LEADERSHIP! You know as OPPOSED TO REPUKES who are calling a vote to REBUKE BIDEN

for calling for a sensible and IMMEDIATE CEASE-FIRE!

WHO'S FUCKING SIDE ARE YOU ON????

[Bucky]

16. It's a nice, pro peace gesture, but won't mean very much

Israel says it has all the bombs & missiles that it needs. They all have a significant production capacity.

Halting transfer of weapons is purely symbolic. It won't save a single life. More importantly, it won't repair Israel's damaged reputation in the world.

It's gonna take decades to wipe Netanyahu's stain off their flag.

[TeamProg]

19. For anyone who feels confused about Hamas as a political body, read this Times Of Israel piece for some insights.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

[mdmc]

39. thanks for the link

I've been thinking about peace in the middle east a lot lately

[louis-t]

23. And the sooner the better.

[Jilly_in_VA]

27. Send 'em to Ukrain!

All of them. Every one.

[mdmc]

38. I like this