Huge car crash mars Nationwide Series race at Daytona

[Omaha Steve]

Source: USA Today

Daytona, Fla. – Several cars crashed and disintegrated Saturday in front of the grandstand at the end of a NASCAR Nationwide Series race at Daytona International Speedway.

It was unclear immediately if anyone in the stands was seriously injured, but the engine from Kyle Larson's car, which flew high and tore into the fence at the start-finish line, was seen burning inside an open area in the fence, and a large portion of the car appeared to go over the fence.

MORE: Driver taken to hospital after 11-car crash

A tire came over the fence, and a lot of debris came up into the stands, where safety crews were working on at least five people, including four who were strapped to backboards. And at least two people were injured in the upper deck, where another safety crew with an additional two stretchers were sent.

Safety crews and police have closed off the area, escorting fans out of the area.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/02/23/huge-car-crash-mars-nationwide-series-race-at-daytona/1941529/

---

MORE: Driver taken to hospital after 11-car crash


?729ef1a5e3c69f5da0197e57e2bd3dd3fdfcd35f

Kyle Larson, left, slides to a stop near Regan Smith (7) after a wreck at the conclusion of the NASCAR Nationwide Series auto race Saturday.(Photo: Chris O'Meara, AP)

[Hard Assets]

1. Danica Patrick is not involved in this wreck.

Engine went out on her on lap 88.

She'll be fine for tomorrow.

[FarCenter]

6. She pulled it behind the wall, instead of into the pits.

A mechanic restarted the car. But she did not rejoin the race.

[JackRiddler]

9. Well that's the important thing I guess. Screw whoever might have got killed.

I hope it wasn't any minors schlepped along to this "sport."

And whoever Ms. Patrick is. A race-car driver, I suppose?

You'd think a population already subjected to the noise of cars and the stink of exhaust fumes on a near 24/7 basis would choose a form of diversion other than voluntarily spending entire days wallowing in 100 times the car noise and 100 times the stink of exhaust. You'd think wrong, however.

[hrmjustin]

19. I have to agree with you that I do not get why people like to watch cars driving in a circle.

I just don't get it.

[olddad56]

21. Cause it's NASCAR (Non Athletic Sport Centering Around Rednecks)

[DainBramaged]

36. You have NO idea what you are talking about

I guess you don't know about the tracks in New Hampshire, Dover, California, Michigan, I could go on, but you don't know what you are talking about.

[Mnpaul]

50. I agree

Anyone who thinks this is non athletic has no clue about the physical endurance required. A NASCAR driver can lose up to 15 pounds during a race. A lot of skill and knowledge is required to finish a race(along with a little luck). These professionals make it look easy but it is not.

[DainBramaged]

56. The catch fence did it's job and saved lives

There are many here who would ban EVERY form of sports because they think they are unnecessary.


Those who lead dreary lives often want others to join them, especially those who have fun doing what they disapprove of.

[frylock]

96. exactly. these fools look at it from the perspective of someone commuting to work every day..

what's the big deal? I drive a car every day. derp.

[olddad56]

51. maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

they have rednecks in every state, not just the south. Some of my best friends are rednecks and proud of it.

[DainBramaged]

54. Whatever

I don't give a shit. Those who understand the least about NASCAR always bash it the most. Because being ignorant is easier than understanding. OH WAIT, isn't that what we say about the Republicans all the time???


Buhbye

[olddad56]

64. I think that you do give a shit and that you can't let it go.

[geologic]

69. I think that you...

...NASCAR bashers aren't a whole lot different
than a bunch of gun lovin' stepford clickmonkeys
infesting a topic on kids getting shot at a school;
buncha sorry sniping vultures you are--
the lot of ya...

[octothorpe]

76. I'm not a fan of NASCAR, but the self-righteous people who

put it and its followers down annoy me. It's usually the same people who have to comment on how barbaric people who watch football are (not really my thing either) Just to be clear, it's not people voicing their dislike for a sport/activity (I really don't like watching NASCAR), but the way some people look down upon those who do enjoy it.

[TDale313]

77. +1

[titaniumsalute]

78. I agree with you 100%

I do enjoy watching various sports...NASCAR and most car racing are not part of that mix. But to call everyone who enjoy NASCAR a redneck is like calling everyone who watches golf a snob.

I "get" NASCAR. The back stories of the drivers, pit crews, managers/racing teams, etc. It entertains millions just as baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc. And for the so-called "tolerant left" on DU, I shudder everytime I see someone bash someone else for enjoying a various sport or hobby.

When I was about 8 years old I fell in love with the organ. (Not THAT organ...that was at about 14 years old.) But when you are a kid taking organ lessons all during middle and high school it isn't the most popular thing in the world. I was called a fag, wimp, etc. The organ jokes were endless at times. Now I'm 38 and people seem amazed I know how to sit down at a large pipe organ and play one.

[frylock]

93. think you could handle the mental pressure and endurance required..

to drive an 800HP car for 3 hours in a pack of other 800HP cars? this ain't a drive up the coast with your A/C and Sirius radio and rest stops. temperatures exceed 120 degrees in the greenhouse during some of these races.

[JackRiddler]

123. Hell, I don't think I could handle the pressure of waiting tables.

Lots of activities require endurance and all that stuff. Oil-rig operators and miners have to be very skilled and strong and fast. For some reason watching them isn't considered a spectator sport. The difficulty of something doesn't necessarily ennoble it, either. And it's definitely a case where no necessity is making anyone do it or watch it, so if the drivers are cooking in the heat, so what?

[Norbert]

45. I think circle track racing is very enjoyable.

NASCAR put those restrictor plates on top of the carb and the racing at Daytona and Talledega has sucked ever since. They have close situations before but have never done much about it. Restrictor plate racing in my opinion is artificial racing. The idea that someone can step out of the draft and lose 20-25 positions in one lap is insane.

Do not judge circle track racing with Daytona. Your average late model race at a half mile track will give you ten times the race as the Daytona 500. Of course you won't have the "lucky dog" a "Green-white-checkered" and especually no "BOOGEDY-BOOGEDY-BOOGEDY!"

[jmowreader]

73. It's a sport that makes as much sense as soccer or golf

I have seen soccer games. Twenty guys run from one end of the field to the other kicking and head-butting a ball. They kick it to a guy in a net who catches it and throws it back, and the twenty guys run back to the other end of the field kicking and head-butting the ball. They do this for 45 minutes, then rest some, then do it again for another 45 minutes before they decide who won by penalty kicks.

There is as much finesse in NASCAR as there is in any other sport - maybe more. The game is using the wind and the aerodynamics of your car to try to pass, and stay in front of, other cars, and also pit strategy and car setup.

[JackRiddler]

124. It may make as much or as little sense, but it's not a sport.

Strenuous activity in itself is not an athletic sport. Piano movers have rough going too. If the energy in the game is coming from a machine rather than the human body and gravity only, then it's a technological exhibition of some kind, or in this case an automotive combat. But it's not a sport.

[jmowreader]

125. Why auto racing is a sport

A sport is...

A contest with predetermined goals...
That is a test of strength, stamina or dexterity...
And that is played by predetermined rules.

Moving a piano is not a contest and has no predetermined rules.

NASCAR has predetermined goals in three levels - qualifying, the individual races and the whole season. It is a test of strength, stamina and dexterity. It is a team sport. And it has thousands of rules...there are three pages in the rulebook governing the hose between the gas tank and the engine.(And they have to be there because Richard Petty made a fuel line out of three inch fire hose.) By any standard racing is a sport.

Try this on for size: the International Olympic Committee, who is expert in recognizing sport, classifies chess and contract bridge as sports. Certainly racing is as worthy as chess or dressage...or, for that matter, figure skating.

[JackRiddler]

127. Whatever. IOC choice of chess & bridge is weird...

Those are games. So is car-racing. So is any other contest with rules for winning. Game rules and even strenuous activity and rapid reaction in themselves don't make an athletic sport. Athletic sports for me are defined by the primacy of athletic performance and the near-exclusive use of animal muscles and gravity (or wind or sea motion) as the energy sources, not 800 horsepower monster engines. (Is battle of the monster trucks a sport?)

In your dissing figure skating, you're showing your own cultural prejudices. Is it not manly enough for you? Nothing short of gymnastics is more athletic and more of a pure sport, I'd say.

Really NASCAR is culturally and spiritually closer to professional wrestling, and almost as fixed -- given that the most important element is who built the better machine. Drivers are one essential element, but the machine is the main thing. Drivers are human faces to pretend this is mostly a human contest when it is mostly a technological exhibition. It's closer to modern warfare than to the popular team sports (which of course are heavy on their metaphoric relation to war).

[frylock]

92. they're ovals and tri-ovals and d-shaped ovals and road courses..

not "circles." and you don't GET it because you have no desire to GET it. those of us that have watched the sport our entire lives enjoy it because we've taken the time to understand the pit strategies and alliances on the track that are key to victory. perhaps soccer is more your speed.

[frylock]

91. were you clutching your snuff box, looking down your nose on us unwashed masses..

as you typed out that twaddle?

[DainBramaged]

120. I call it prattle, they speak as if we are imbeciles because we like cars

tut tut, poof poof, we're nothing but white trash to them.


Empty lives with nothing better to do than spit on the lowly race fans.

[JackRiddler]

122. NASCAR is a pastime for a privileged elite.

People around the world eat dirt and die because they live on top of valuable minerals so that somewhere down the chain of value production this completely pointless spectacle can be staged at an enormous energy cost for pampered American prole-royalty. And for the glory of the corporate sponsors and the vehicle makers. NASCAR is not a people's sport.

Are you clutching your Matchbox, looking down your nose on those who don't have what to eat, let alone what to drive? Probably not, so kindly don't make assumptions about me. Answer the point, don't kill the messenger.

Anyway, you're a good one on this board so I don't want to get into a flame with you. If muscle cars in circles rock your boat, erm, hood, whatever. I'm prone to my own corruptions, but I won't uphold them as though they make me a great man of the people.

[One_Life_To_Give]

126. You talking about the Superbowl?

The America's Cup is an Elitist event. $40 will get you a ticket to most all of the Top Tier Nascar Events but most of them are Bring Your own Beer. (coolers allowed in the stands and alot of grills in the parking lot)

[JackRiddler]

128. Sure.

What I said above definitely applies to the Superbowl. The populist rhetoric about that is similarly ludicrous.

[onehandle]

24. Elephant hunters everywhere breathe a sigh of relief. nt

[Scuba]

2. You can already smell the lawsuits.

[jberryhill]

15. From injured spectators in the stand? No way

[madville]

30. I was at the Budweiser Duels Thursday

Just looked at my ticket from that event, it states on the back that the spectator assumes all risk and releases NASCAR and the speedway from all liability. It's dangerous to be 50 yards from 200mph cars, everyone knows that and accepts it when they attend, some might try to sue though.

[Scuba]

31. Oh, they'll sue.

[madville]

35. I hope everyone recovers

Hopefully everyone is ok, if they're like most NASCAR spectators I know they'll be bragging about and showing off scars from their injuries in no time Tough bunch

[triplepoint]

3. So, Are Newton's Laws STILL Just a Theory?

Good to see more evidence of the former.....especially in such an armpit of militant ignorance as Florida.

[Mika]

4. Video here...

[blaze]

11. video removed my user? nt

[Baclava]

5. Holy crap... that was crazy

Looked like a wheel went 20 rows up into the stands along with the motor through in the fence, hope nobody was hurt.

[NV Whino]

37. Wow! What a photograph!

Exploding and disintegrating cars and the fans have yet to react.

[davidpdx]

74. Wow, that fence was mangled

The photographer got a good shot on that one.

[2ndAmForComputers]

79. Reminds me of the Speed Racer cartoon intro

[Posteritatis]

7. That the drivers can often just walk away from those always astounds me. (nt)

[Mopar151]

58. Ain't all luck...

Many of the developments in safety come from within the sport. A case in point - many of the drivers use seats from "Joie of Seating", which is Randy Lajoie's company. He's a 3rd generation driver (4th is son Corey), a hard charger who tested the limits - like his Daytona debut shown here.

[jmowreader]

75. It got that way because plenty of drivers did NOT just walk away from those

Watch the race and you'll see in-car camera shots. Look at the windshield and there is a piece of steel tubing coming straight down in the middle of the windshield. That is the Earnhardt Bar, and it is named that because Dale Earnhardt totaled a car at Talladega and managed to cave in the roof in a way that bar would have prevented...now everyone has that bar and no one caves in the roof that way.

There's also a Petty Bar, which runs horizontally behind the seat. Richard Petty managed to cave the driver's side frame in right there; that bar has kept it from happening again.

And then there is the neck brace the drivers wear, and they wear it because Earnhardt broke his neck twelve years ago. Since they mandated it, no one's broken his neck.

[tarheelsunc]

8. Bad crashes happen every time they go to Daytona or Talledega

I hope all the fans are OK, that was a devastating crash. Unfortunately, these crashes will keep happening in NASCAR as long as the sport refuses to punish drivers who pull these stunts. It's hard to tell from the angle of the video I watched, but it appears that the guy who started all this is the defending Sprint Cup CHAMPION. And you better bet the only punishment he'll get out of this is a couple of bruises.

[JackRiddler]

13. You say, "Unfortunately, these crashes will keep happening in NASCAR...

as long as the sport refuses to punish drivers who pull these stunts."

No.

These crashes will keep happening as long as there is a NASCAR. Self-evidently.

Furthermore, they are an essential attraction of the "sport." They're the only part of the show that is ever re-broadcast on non-sports programs. If you're going to stage a modern Circus Maximus predicated on maximum HP, torque and speed, then your competing gladiators are going to push as hard as they can for the win. This spectacle by definition is about reckless driving. Also self-evident. ("I'm shocked, shocked, that there is reckless driving at this race track!&quot

[tarheelsunc]

17. You're absolutely right

There are some NASCAR fans who are outright vocal about why they watch it: "I wanna see some wrecks!" Those are the ones this accident probably don't even phase. A lot of fans have complained over the past few years because the car model they were using produced races that featured skill and strategy, but few crashes. I've heard a lot of fans, not just of NASCAR but sports in general, whine about efforts to increase safety in sports because "the athletes know the risks they are getting into."

Then of course, you have a lot of fans who enjoy the crashes, but probably wouldn't admit so much publicly. Nevertheless, most know there are limits to how bad a crash should have to be and realize the sport is dangerous and they need to take precautions to care for the safety of the drivers and the fans.

And then the rest, a much smaller percentage, actually watch it for the racing. I'm OK with NASCAR sometimes, but I find Formula 1 and Indycar to feature much better actual racing in general (even though Indycar is probably the most dangerous form of auto racing in the country).

[DainBramaged]

33. You have NO idea what you are talking about

[frylock]

97. wrecks result in yellow and red flags..

no true fan of the sport enjoys that. we want green flag racing and for drivers to remain safe.

[Frances]

10. Was Kasey Kahne involved in the accident?

[raidert05]

12. the fence

grated his car like cheese....

[Poll_Blind]

14. Here's a video that's still up:

I'm no expert, but I've watched that video a couple of times and I have to say the second car (just behind the black car) looks like he was working on fucking up the guy in the lead for a while, pulled it off, and juked the wrong way and got tapped from behind, throwing at least those two cars into uncontrolled behavior.

That second guy...the word "asshole" does not quite fit the calibur of a move like that.

PB

[secondvariety]

22. I think it was the black car

(Regan Smith) that set things in motion.



http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/nationwide/story/_/id/8978096/horrific-wreck-mars-end-daytona-nwide-race

[Baclava]

16. '15 spectators transported to area hospitals; 1 on the way to surgery with head trauma' - ESPN

https://twitter.com/ESPNNASCAR

hello

:large

:large

[liberal N proud]

18. And the fans cheered!

This is why they watch NASCAR.

[Lugnut]

20. Real NASCAR fans don't cheer when wrecks happen. n/t

[liberal N proud]

23. Have you ever listened to NASCAR on the radio?

[geologic]

65. Yes...

...on MRN (Motor Racing Network) and PRN (Performance Racing Network);
and many upscale tracks (Indy 'an all) have their own radio stations--
and your (uniformed) point is???...

[mentalsolstice]

95. No they don't!

My husband witnessed a fatal wreck at Talledega, he doesn't brag about being there. We both remember exactly where we were when it was announced that Dale Earnhardt had died (not fans of DE, but knew something was wrong at the end of the race, and was announced several hours later). My nephew witnessed Davy Allison's helicopter crash, and will not talk about it. We live in a car racing area, we have Talledega and the most wonderful Barbers racetrack, which my husband was instrumental in it's development. Watching a car race or a motorcycle race can be fun...

I grow more cynical by the day about most pro sports, yet I'm not going to denigrate the fans.

Signed,
A diehard Lance Armstrong fan who is now struggling

[DainBramaged]

41. You have no idea what NASCAR is about

You know as much about NASCAR as I know about geophysics, which is ZERO.

[liberal N proud]

43. LOL

Cars going around in circles really fast bumping each other with screaming rednecks with Budweiser t-shirts watching.

That sums up the last NASCAR race I attended. Yee-ha!

[DainBramaged]

44. So you're calling Progressives who are fans Rednecks?

Do you know where ll the tracks are? Want to take that back, I'll give ya a chance.

[liberal N proud]

46. This is what I see when I think NASCAR

It may be a stereotype, but that is basically my experience. And most of the tracks are in red states (19 of26)

[DainBramaged]

47. Here's something that isn't a stereotype

my ignore list.


There are assholes in EVERY arena for EVERY sport. I'm sure if I hated a sport as much as you do I could find dozens of pictures mocking the fans. But I don't lower myself to your level. You must have searched a long time to find those too. Y

you never answered my question. At this point I don't give a shit. Those of us who ARE Progressives can turn the other cheek at an event where they are in the minority.


There are also assholes who got to a sporting event JUST to be assholes.


Human nature.


Have a nice life.


Oh and your picture show is a reflection of your ignorance not ours. You have no idea what NASCAR is all about, and you only wish you had the photographic skill to earn a living shooting photos of NASCAR.

[liberal N proud]

49. Too bad you can't respect others opinions.

I will not waste any time on this since you will not see it having put me on ignore because I don't agree with you. Your choice, not mine, I don't judge based on opinion.

Sorry you are so weak!

On edit, those pictures are a search for NASCAR Fan images, top 5.

[Mopar151]

52. Opinions like yours DESERVE no respect

NASCAR is not a monolithic entity. It is a sanctioning body - like NCAA. All the tracks (hundreds of them, whern regional and weekly series venues are counted) are independently owned. Daytona is owned by International Speedway Corporation - the France family founded both, but they are independent entities.
Most of the pictures posted show fans having some big loud FUN. If that's a problem for you - then THAT's the problem.

[Posteritatis]

61. Fascinating choice of subject line considering your posts. (nt)

[geologic]

66. No shit--

the unbridled prejudicial bias wreaks with hypocracy...

[sendero]

82. Or does it..

... reek? Hard to say for some sports fans!

[geologic]

108. wreak =

wreckreek--
hard for some snarks to understand...

[frylock]

101. unbelievable disconnect to be sure

[frylock]

100. that is fucking rich considering your posts throughout this thread..

"Too bad you can't respect others opinions." are you fucking shitting me?!!

[frylock]

99. that sez more about you than it does about the fans..

I've been to several races up in Fontana, and I've seen people of many races and classes enjoying the day. plenty of gorgeous women as well, with all of their teeth no less.

[LanternWaste]

129. "More often than not, we fail to see anything other than what we wish to see."

And your statement merely validates what my granddad told me so many years ago...

"More often than not, we fail to see anything other than what we wish to see." It too may be simply a stereotype, but that is basically my experience.

[Mnpaul]

68. I don't see any cheering

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/02/23/daytona-nationwide-crash-fan-injuries/1941815/

[Norbert]

87. What I heard was cheering BUT!!!!

It was the final corner of the final lap. There was still a half dozen cars with a chance of winning the race. Of course there was cheering. Very, Very little of the cheering had anything to do with "Oh Boy. We're having a major wreck." PLEASE understand the distinction.

Don MacTavish, Dan Wheldon, Gilles Villeneuve, Greg Moore, Rich Vogler, Scott Brayton, Joe Booher, J. D. McDuffie, Neil Bonnett, Ayrton Senna, several race fans at LeMans in 1955, one race fan at Indianapolis in 1987, Three race fans at Charlotte in 1999: anyone who has been around the sport and are fans knows thes deaths are real and they are final. They love the sport because of the thrill, because the drivers have a story to tell on how they got there and the chance of meeting friends they haven't seen since last year. They don't go because of the chance some driver, pit crew member or fan could join the list I've made, I repeat they don't go there for that.

As for pictures of NASCAR "fans", Lets not get stupid here. For every NASCAR fan with a shaved back there are at least a dozen NFL fans dressed in "war paint". My wife had a drunk almost fall on her lap and I was challenged to a fight by another drunk because I wore the wrong teams sweat shirt, at an NFL football game. With those experiences behind us we both still think the overwhelming majority of NFL fans are normal and sane. Put away the goofy pictures PLEASE. They add nothing to the argument.

Mnpaul, my comments were not aimed at you at all. I am simply frustrated with the comments by some on this board.

[Mnpaul]

88. I agree about the pictures

they were a cheap shot. I actually did a search for "NFL fans" and what you get there make these look rather tame in comparison. They aren't a representation of all the NFL fans either. The oddballs are always going to draw the most attention. That is why they do it.

[frylock]

98. just like why people watched the shuttle launches..

so they could clap and cheer when the shuttles get all blowed up. ain't that right, skeeter?

[onehandle]

25. Mars? Aren't crashes the cherry on top? nt

[mokawanis]

26. You know what NASCAR fans love to talk about after a race?

How spectacular the crashes were. I wonder how many fans there'd be if by some miracle crashes never happened?

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Maybe a dozen or so.

[DainBramaged]

34. You have no idea what you are talking about

[mokawanis]

39. I've seen it many times

How was the race?

It was great! You shoulda seen the fucking crash on turn #4! Google it!

[DainBramaged]

40. Right have a nice life

You foks wouldn't know how to start a race car let alone understand what it's about.

[mokawanis]

42. You just reinforced my point!

Last edited Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I just read a post where you described your nascar experiences...where 2 people crashed and died.

Have a nice life yourself.

edit: Btw, I'll admit I wouldn't know how to start a race car, but that by no means disqualifies me from having an opinion that's based on a lifetime of observing how many fans view and talk about the sport.

[frylock]

104. how many fans do you know?

judging by your posts, I can't imagine you surround yourself with many people that you would consider to be such "philistines."

[frylock]

102. just like fans of football talk about the crushing hits..

despite the fact that player's brains are turning to jelly, and some are taking their own lives. you think race fans are just going to ignore and forget about a crash like that? I watched it in real-time and was horrified.

[valerief]

27. If only they had more guns.

[DrDan]

28. new conference about to begin

[DainBramaged]

32. It's amazing how many of you reacted to this OP

I've been a NASCAR fan since 1963. Went to my first race with my Dad right here in NJ and watched Fred Lorenzen win. Matched Dale Sr. die. Was at Watkins Glen when J.D. McDuffie died in the tire wall.


I would expect most of you to react like this at a mass shooting or Republican commenting about rape, but about a sport (yes, in spite of what you may think, these guys are in way better shape than any of you will ever be) involving cars, a multi-billion dollar industry.


When the fans come to the track, on the back of the ticket by PURCHASING the ticket they acknowledge they could be injured. They're there because they WANT to be there. And they don't talk about how much they like the wrecks, and they aren't all Rednecks like gun ownership isn't exclusive to Republicans. How would you KNOW if you aren't a fan? I know, ignorant guessing and jumping on the bandwagon.


Your attitude is shameful and quite honestly ignorant. Freepers act like that. I guess YOUR sport is pristine and perfect.


What utter bullshit.
'
Shame on you. Shame on you for acting like the people you despise.

[madville]

38. I hear ya

I was at the Duels Thursday since I live in Jacksonville, the fans assume the risk as stated on the ticket. Tragic and unfortunate, yes, but incidents every now and then are expected. I have watched every race for 15 years, safety has always evolved in NASCAR by reaction to incidents because you cannot predict everything that could happen at those speeds.

[Mopar151]

53. Absolutely right!

Motorsport is anything but monolithic. The key is, while we may not like a particular form of the sport, most of us respect the talent, skill, and sheer hard work involved.

[DainBramaged]

55. Not the crowd at here, oh no, it involves things they don't understand

You love cars, you're the evil one. If it isn't stick and ball, they think it's a joke.


Isn't one of them in this thread who wouldn't shit their pants as a passenger at 180 MPH TWO inches from the wall at Darlington.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. It is very difficult to separate NASCAR culture from racist white male culture.

I agree that they are merely overlapping sets, the problem is that you have to examine the Venn diagram very closely to see where they aren't identical.

[Mopar151]

59. Get a little closer - and away from your TeeVee

Not all fans want to be in the Talladega infield.

[Warren Stupidity]

60. Like I said, merely overlapping sets. Very overlapping.

[Mopar151]

63. And you are basing this on what?

How many races (of any sort) have you been to in person?

[Warren Stupidity]

84. Wait, your assertion is that demographics should be based on anecdotal evidence?

Series?

[Mopar151]

90. So, you've NEVER been to a live race, and your information is based on?

Crowd shots serving the beer advertizers?

[Warren Stupidity]

94. Um, uh, the demographics of NASCAR audiences?

White, southern, republican. Higher proportions of each of those three groups than the general population. And yes, the tv coverage of NASCAR audiences is, um, interesting. I'm sure all those confederate flags are of no significance at all.

[frylock]

106. never seen a confederate flag at the races i've been to in california..

what I have seen is interracial couples and people of many cultures enjoying the day.

[Warren Stupidity]

111. ok.

Now you have. That took approximately 10s.

[frylock]

112. that isn't california. i bet you see those flags at rock concerts too..

picnics, 4th of july fireworks displays, etc. you'll see them at gun shows too, along with these flags:

[Warren Stupidity]

113. I'm sorry, did I somehow make a claim about California?

You said you've never seen a confederate flag at a nascar race, as if that were some sort of evidence to disprove the cultural intersection between nascar and white southern racism. Now you have seen one.

[frylock]

115. no, but i did. my point is that you're going to see that shit at many events in the south..

you're fucking fooling yourself if you think displaying the confederate flag is exclusive to NASCAR races.

[geologic]

118. Ummm, you replied to frylock's post #106:

"106. never seen a confederate flag at the races i've been to in california.."

You be quite aptly named--
Warren...

[geologic]

116. I once saw a commie flag--

at a proCannabis (unroad) rally...

[Warren Stupidity]

117. which would fit in with cannabis culture, it being generally leftwing and all.

Although hard core commies are sort of rare these days. Hard core racists, not so much.

[geologic]

119. Hardcore

uninformed bigots too...

[geologic]

121. So,

there was a Repuglycan flag there too, Warren;
with a bunch of libertarian types beneath it.
How does that fit into yer, ah--
cultural pontifications...

[LanternWaste]

130. Much like that bastion of southern racism known as 'horse-racing'.

White, southern, republican. Higher proportions of each of those three groups than the general population..."
Much like that bastion of southern racism known as 'horse-racing'.

"I'm sure all those confederate flags are of no significance at all..."
Is that because many of the events are in the south, or because the attendees are racist? On what objective and peer-reviewed analysis is that based on?


Often, we see merely that which validates our own biases.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

80. So how do you feel about

basketball and inner-city African-American youth?

I don't understand how some think their bigotry is more enlightened than the other guy's bigotry.

[Warren Stupidity]

83. The people watching basketball? A very diverse crowd.

It is the NASCAR audience not the drivers I was discussing. Nice try though.

[frylock]

107. yeh! and what's up with that "rap music?"

it's just all clicks and whistles to me.

[geologic]

62. Yes, DrainBramaged--

It's a real drag when you discover that members of the party you love
are as clueless and prejudiced and can hate every bit as well
as the members of the party that you hate...

[Lugnut]

67. NASCAR posts always bring out the broad-brushers.

A lot of NASCAR fans aren't beer swilling Confederate flag waving fans as some misguided people would like one to think. I'm more like the typical NASCAR fan I see here at Pocono Raceway, PA. I'm a great-granny senior citizen who's been a NASCAR fan since the 80s and I was born a liberal Democrat. I just like cars and I always have. On a clear Summer night I can hear the cars racing at a local bullring where Jimmy Spencer and his dad raced many decades ago.

I don't cheer for the wrecks and nobody I know does either. A lot of fans and some drivers were seriously injured today at Daytona. I'm holding good thoughts for them all.

[geologic]

70. Hey--

lighten-up on us beer swillers...

[Lugnut]

71. Hey - -

I like my beer swilling too. Welcome to DU, too!

[geologic]

72. Swill--

on...

[ileus]

81. Real progressives only approve of earth friendly bicycle racing.

As for me I don't mind NASCAR that much (since DE passed I don't watch that much) but I really enjoy motocross racing.


I will keep up with the race from time to time today but I won't watch a whole race until Bristol's fall race. That one I'll be in the stands for.

[frylock]

105. fuckin-A!

I grew up at the local short track (Cajon Speedway), and was there most every Saturday watching my friend's dad race. My dad was a sales rep for BFG in the early 70's, so we would frequently go to Riverside Raceway and tour the pits. I saw Richard Petty win the Winston Western there in 1973 when I was 7 years old. why the inherent need to come into these threads and bash people and comment on something they have absolutely NO knowledge about is hard for me to understand. quite frankly, it speaks to a void in their own miserable lives that drives them to do something, ANYTHING, to make themselves seem superior in intellect.

[Mosby]

48. Fans injured during scary wreck

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/nationwide/story/_/id/8978096/horrific-wreck-mars-end-daytona-nwide-race

[Mean Gene]

85. Blame it on the plate.

They put restricter plates on these cars to limit the amount of air they could pump thru them. This leaves them with no throttle response. Kinda like all or nothing.
Maybe they should eliminate the plate and just lower the compression ratios to reduce the speeds and increase the throttle response.
Maybe they should do something else.

[jambo101]

86. I'm doing something

I'm not going to any of the races, a person could get killed at one of these events ,i'll watch em on the tv.

[Mopar151]

89. Latest updates

UPDATE 9am Two fans previously listed in critical condition, including one child, have been upgraded Sunday morning after a horrific crash on the final lap of the Nationwide Series race at Daytona International Speedway on Saturday. Twenty-eight people suffered some sort of injury. Fourteen were treated at the track, and the others were taken to hospitals. Halifax Health spokesman Byron Cogdell said 12 people were brought in there, seven for treatment from the crash and five for heat exhaustion and other issues. Two of the seven had been in critical condition, including one with life-threatening injuries because of head trauma. But Codgell said Sunday morning that the patients were no longer listed in critical condition. Daytona Beach Police public information officer Jimmie Flynt said another six people were transported to Halifax Urgent Care in Port Orange for minor injuries, and one additional person was transported to Florida Memorial for minor injuries.(USA Today)
Catch Fence update: Daytona International Speedway has repaired the front stretch catch fence that was severely damaged in Saturday's horrific Nationwide Series crash and is prepared to run Sunday's Daytona 500. "We met with NASCAR,'' Daytona Speedway president Joie Chitwood said on Sunday. "We reviewed all the repairs we made last evening. We worked late into the evening and are prepared to go racing today.'' Repairs to the fence were completed around 2:00am/et. A track-access gate that was destroyed was not replaced. Chitwood said there were no concerns for the safety of fans in the 500. He said the 22-foot high catch fence was installed in 2010 after recommendations by engineers following the 2009 crash at Talladega Superspeedway in which Carl Edwards' car sailed into the fence and injured fans. Chitwood said the track worked well into the night helping those injured, from transporting those released to their hotels to making sure they had accommodations for the 500. Chitwood said the track is willing to relocate any fans sitting on the front stretch that are uncomfortable with their seats.(ESPN)(2-24-2013)

from http://www.jayski.com/cupnews.htm

[indie9197]

103. Good news that the injured fans are doing better- especially the kid

Luckily all those first dozen or so rows were almost empty. You must not be able to see much from way down there. Although for the 500 I bet all those seats will be packed. It will be a stressful race for the NASCAR owners.

As I remember, restrictor plates were put in to keep NASCAR's insurance premiums down. It made it way more dangerous for the drivers but supposedly safer for the fans. At the time, cars were going airborne left and right at Daytona and Talladega. However, every time there is a big wreck there is a chance of lightweight parts such as sheet metal flying over the fence into the stands.

[Mojo Electro]

109. It's true...

It's kinda of the opposite of a concert, the higher up seats are the ones where you can see better. Still, there are usually quite a few people down front. I hope everyone is recovering ok.

[Mopar151]

110. There are Kevlar tethers on hoods and front spindles to prevent this

The front suspension on Larson's car must have completely disintegrated to have the wheel seperate and go into the stands.
Also, there was apparently an access gate in the fence at that point, which was eliminated during last night's repairs.

[frylock]

114. i remember going to an IMSA race at the Del Mar Fairgrounds in 1988..

I was standing along the fence at the apex of a very fast corner when a Nissan GTP ZX-T hit the wall HARD. my friends and I were showered with debris. mostly small bits of fiberglass, but it was rather frightening.