Hezbollah, Syrian rebels clash on Lebanese soil
Source: Associated Press
BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian rebels fought with the gunmen from the Hezbollah militia in a deadly clash on Lebanese soil, a security official and local media said Sunday, in the latest sign Syria's civil war is spilling over the country's borders.
It was the worst clash on Lebanese territory between the two sides since the outbreak of the Syria conflict more than two years ago. The violence highlighted the growing risk the fighting in Syria poses to fragile Lebanon, whose volatile sectarian makeup mirrors that of its neighbor.
Hezbollah and Syria's rebels fight on opposite sides inside Syria, and tensions between them have risen sharply since the Lebanese militia stepped up its armed support for President Bashar Assad's regime last month. Rebel fighters have threatened to attack Hezbollah bases in Lebanon, and on Saturday 18 rockets and mortar rounds hit Lebanon's eastern Baalbek region, a Hezbollah stronghold.
In the night from Saturday to Sunday, Hezbollah apparently encircled and ambushed a group of Syrian rebels and allied Lebanese fighters whom they suspected of rocketing Baalbek a day earlier, the Lebanese security official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity in line with regulations and because details were not yet clear.
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/hezbollah-syrian-rebels-clash-lebanese-soil-120229491.html
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L0oniX
(31,493 posts)...and Israel flying over Lebanon to add to it. Now I hear news (blocked in the US) that Turkey just arrested a group of Syrian rebels with sarin gas. There's a possibility that Turkey will also have an Arab spring as protesters are being attacked while protesting a mall development. Wow ...capitalism strikes again. Meanwhile the Russians have found another potential buyer (Lebanon) for surface to air missiles. Does it seem like every country surrounding Israel is having problems?
Off thread topic: I can't verify this but...
Syrian Opposition Fighters Arrested with Chemical Weapons
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35150.htm
from the Russian media, right before the revelations came about the Iraqi discovery. I heard the Russian minister was trying to pressure the Turkey Government to reveal that information. It might explain why Russia is taking some of the steps they are taking by going ahead and step up arms to the Syrian Government. They also claim they are going to release the sell of advanced MIG fighters, the Syrian Government had requested. The bottomline is the Russians distrust the U.S. and their Allies even more now. They accuse the U.S. of double standards but that hasn't been reported by the Western Media. There is censorship going on with one side. There are threats coming from the other side not being told to the public that could lead to World War III. It isn't just about replacing Assad anymore. Assad has a lot more Allies than people are being told involving other countries. The only thing a no fly zone would mean is another escalation with more countries getting into the conflict from both sides. This is not like Libya or Iraq, and even Afghanistan. It is more dangerous. The bottomline, Assad is there to stay. Unless people want a World War. I've also heard their is unrest in Turkey because of the Government supporting Terrorists and the recent bombings in Turkey. The Turkish Government has yet to reveal who was responsible for recent bombings in their territory. I wonder what other skeletons their Prime Minister has in his closet?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I'm sure the Russians don't have to fly over Syria but they would have to avoid doing so.
John2
(2,730 posts)that has yet been reported in the media when came from Iran's highest authority, at the same time with their highest ranking General. They communicated a No Fly Zone was their redline and Jordan will be the first to go and next will be Qatar. They sent that message directly to Jordan allegedly. They think the U.S. and Israel's target is them, and not Syria. That is the reason Russia insists Iran needs to be part of the Conference, regardless of what the French claims. This information is apparently being censored by the Western Media. The stakes are higher than some people realize. These people are playing with fire in my opinion. Iran also recently positioned long ranged missiles near the coast.
Igel
(35,386 posts)Part of the Arab spring's problem is that often it's been the "mass revolution" by a minority of the population. In a dictatorship, this may be okay. It's hard to know popular will, and later the new rulers may be just like the old ones or they may turn out okay (which may mean losing elections and stepping down).
In a democracy, even one like Turkey, that would be a revolution by a minority to overthrow a majority-elected government in order to gain the power that the minority believes they properly have. You can call that a coup, a putsch, a revolt, any of a series of possible names, but you cannot properly call it "democratic".
"Does it seem like every country surrounding Israel is having problems?"
Yes, but the answer you'd seem to hint at requires some bad logic to reach. Is the "surrounding Israel" qualifier relevant? If not, then it's a distractor and you risk assigning importance to an irrelevancy. The set of countries having problems runs from Libya and Tunisia (not surrounding Israel) through Egypt to Lebanon (which started its problems because of the PLO) and Syria to Iraq. Jordan's managed to defuse it; a few smaller states suppressed it.
But some demographers predicted this kind of problem--war, revolution--largely rooted in societal patterns caused by culture and wealth distributions, over a decade ago. Religion's certainly exacerbated it, crucially helped the chaos in some areas, and given it form. But ultimately they were going to fight over boundaries, class, income, religion, power, or geography and some of us were just waiting.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)There sure seems to be a lot of smearing of the Syrian opposition.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It does seem to be difficult to get any reliable information about what is going on there.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and just let them have at each other all out?
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)The Syrian military maintained peace for years after the Lebanese Civil War and Israel's invasion (the one in 1982). The two countries were actually united under French Colonial rule until well after the end of the Second World War. Many in Syria still consider Lebanon a part of the Syrian nation.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)Hezbollah sold its soul to Assad. Now the rebels ( lead by al-aqueda ) are taking the fight to them before they send their 20,000 "militia".
This could get real bad.
John2
(2,730 posts)about what motivates each side, the more I learn. You claim Hezbullah sold their soul to Assad, when have they not been allies? I became curious about the War between Iraq and Iran when Saddam was in power, and I discovered, one of the few countries to side with Iran was Syria.
I found out the countries siding with Saddam was Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Britain, France, and of course the United States of America. The President at the time was Ronald Reagan and one of his administration members, was Bush's Secretary if Defense. You know what the relationship was, They sold Saddam all his weapons, including giving him credit, while placing sanctions on Iran. Those weapons included weapons of mass destruction, meaning chemicals. When Saddam used them, and the U.N. was called in, it is alleged the U.S. pressured the U.N. to claim both sides used them. It is not the only time Saddam allegedly use them against the Iranians.
The claim is also Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar were afraid of Iran because the Ayatollah called for the overthrow of monarchs. Is this why they hate the Government in Iran? Syria was one of Iran's only allies at the time. Iran was winning the War against Saddam just like Syria is now. The Ayatollah wanted to continue the War, but he was pressure to agree to a cease fire because of casualties and Iran had regained all their territory in Iraq. It was the Iranian Army that retreated for iraqi Territory after the cease fire. The U.S. also provided Saddam with intelligence during that War. It was a lie to invade Iraq, but that lie doesn't seem to be the first time by our Government on chemical weapons.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)Another grossly misinformed DUer! The lengths folks will go to take sides with Russia & the Assad regime...And they call themselves "Liberals". WOW?!?
jessie04
(1,528 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)That is quite a leap to make.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)Increasingly more and more rebels are leaving the FSA and joining rebel group affiliated with al-Qaeda .
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I don't see how that says that al-Qaeda is leading the rebels.
Are there any hard numbers or just anecdotal reports?
It's hard to know what is really going on at this point.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)the minority...However, the longer we wait to properly arm the FSA & set up a no fly zone then YEAH the Islamic groups will become the dominate force & then it is all over. They will hate us even more for not bothering to help & just watching the Syrian people be slaughtered by the Assad regime.
Islamic radicals DID NOT start this mess the Assad regime's decades long oppression did...A key FACT many here on DU seem to conveniently forget. Instead they adhere to the BS claims of the Assad regime for reasons I will never understand. Not something I would expect from my fellow Liberals. SAD!!!
jessie04
(1,528 posts)I respectfully disagree with your conclusions.
Every Arab spring has become the Arab dead of winter.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)can you point to that went smooth after the revolution was over? America does not count as it is the only nation to have had such a smooth transition. We still had our problems with small rebellions after the fact & Washington had to call out the troops. Not to mention it took us nearly 10yrs to finally have a Constitution.
Seriously, don't give up on them they are going to pull through.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Are you sure about that?
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)So they can internalize not wanting to help the Syrian people at least have chance at the same rights as they have to pick their own leaders. IMHO.
This Civil War did not start because of Al Qaeda...Al Qaeda runs to power vacuums!! This started due to DECADES of oppression & what finally set it off was the Assad regime torturing & killing some kids for spray painting anti-regime slogans on some walls...The kids bodies were shipped back to the parents mutilated!!
The Al Qaeda excuse is what the Assad regime & Russia are pushing & some here on DU adhere to every word. SAD!
John2
(2,730 posts)I wonder who you are? Are you some how connected to the Rebels? So we are suppose to take your information as the gospel, even though many of us don't know you or probably even met you.
As far as I'm concerned, I look at both sides of the issues and information from both sides through an unbiase process. I'm a very educated person and understand how to verify information through a certain process. Your claim is that we should take everything from our Government or the West and reject the other side just like that.
I didn't believe the American Government or people advocating us to attack Iraq in the name of some dictator killing his people and I don't believe you here. I'm being frank too. If you are asking me to believe the Sunnis or the monarchies of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Jordan, forget it! They are no more the virtue of truth than Assad. In fact to tell you the Truth, I'll take that back. I'll believe Assad before I believe them. You want to talk about Democracy in those kingdoms and oppression? I think you need to talk to somebody maybe with a grade school education.
You want to talk about Turkey or even Israel's virtues? They call their lies shrewd and canny, but they lie. They also oppress and kill. How many people have those countries' Governments killed now? Assad as President probably didn't order his police to kill any one, the same as any President of a country, in Israel,Iraq,Britain, Canada, Russia or even the United States. Police kill people every day trying to enforce laws, and they don't call the President of the United States to enforce Laws.
If you think this opposition has so much support in Syria, then they wouldn't be so afraid to challenge Assad in an Election. I don't even know if any of them are qualified to run for office in Syria. Just who are their candidates? Is it the Iman in Qatar, the General that deserted his post, or President Obama? Who is going to run against Assad? Al Nusar or the Kurdish representative? Or is it your end game to divide up Syria into little parts to weaken it for outside aggression? I don't want to hear any watered down crap about Assad killing his people like we heard with Iraq. The biggest lie told in the last decade was from George W. Bush and his accomplices. And the Russians were against it then too. And you actually think people take the word of Israel and Netanyahu? The Sunnis started their little War, finnish it. It is like the religious holy man in Qatar claims. We are all infidels, just like Assad and the Alawites.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)As advanced on this thread and elsewhere.
John2
(2,730 posts)Most countries don't believe the rebels either, even in this country. The Pro Rebels are in the minority with the exception of Western Politicians. Our Congress has a low percentage rating here. Guess how they got it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Look at the UN votes condemning the actions of the Syrian government and supporting the opposition. Each has passed by large majorities in the General Assembly (with votes from numerous non-Western states).
John2
(2,730 posts)I believe I made the distinction from public opinion in these countries versus politicians or Government representatives at the U.N. siding with rebels and religious extremists. My source are Polls in these countries, especially a recent Poll such as Pew. Ther is no popular support for it in the United States, Britain, France or even in Turkey. There is not even popular support in Lebanon and even some evidence of resistance against it in Syria. Especially when Assad even have some support among Sunnis around the Damascus area, and an important Sunni Ally was apparently assasinated by the opposition. His own wife is a Sunni. There is also hard evidence the opposition has terrorized non supporters and fabricated the use of chemical weapons, with the that refutes the U.S. claims about them not doing so, even among their own intelligence. I will remind you their stance about the use of chemical weapons by Saddam during the Iran\Iraq conflict. The U.N. is very capable of manipulating information, when certain members have great influence over others, concerning economic support.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Thanks!
David__77
(23,608 posts)The US should not intervene, because Syria is a sovereign country.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is there any point when the civilians of a sovereign country can be protected from their own government by outside forces?
David__77
(23,608 posts)Actually, a highly unlikely situation. Only slightly more likely than the UN calling for military support against the insurgents.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The United Nations Assistance Mission For Rwanda was a mission instituted by the United Nations to aid the implementation of the Arusha Accords.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)have been begging for the US to create a no-fly zone...Not as if we would simply be there uninvited. Big difference.
David__77
(23,608 posts)Some have also been eaten, or had their heads chopped off, by the insurgents who have been begging in addition to their other activities.
Perhaps were it not for Russia and China, half the country would have been eaten by now, no doubt with French and Qatari cutlery.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)It did nothing in terms of advancing an intelligent conversation/debate. Which is really SAD!!
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)As if "the people" were a monolith.
Some Syrians want Assad gone, and are willing to destroy the country to do it.
Some Syrians want Assad to stay, and are willing to kill anyone trying to remove him.
Some Syrians wanted political reforms, but not at the cost of civil war. Too bad for them.
Let's not speak deceptively about "the Syrian people."
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)rastaone
(57 posts)Yes, Syria is not perfect but ask the Syrian people if they will be willing to destroy their country just for a chance of slightly improving their situation and you will get a collective NO. Most people pushing this war will not end living in Syria and wont be subject to the Jihadist running the opposition.
What they need is a true popular uprising like we are seeing in Turkey and we have seen in Egypt. The police and military cannot quell a true popular movement.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What makes the uprisings in Turkey and Egypt "true" and the one in Syria not?
