NBC: Snowden’s father floats terms for son’s return
Source: NBC
The father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden has told the Justice Department that his son will return home under certain conditions, including no detention before trial and no gag order, NBC News reports
Lonnie Snowden spoke NBC news investigative reporter MIchael Iskioff in an interview aired by NBC's Today program Friday morning.
---
Lonnie Snowden says he informed Attorney General Eric Holder through his lawyer that his son will return home if the Justice Department promises not to detain him before a trial nor subject him to a gag order. He says he also wants his son to select where a trial will take place.
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/28/edward-snowden-nbc-today-show-nsa-return-home-traitor/2471273/
DCBob
(24,689 posts)DESPERATION!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)It is more like a shitstorm than a rational process.
Based on what Mr. Snowden has had to say to this point, I think he would come home if promised a fair and public jury trial, which would also do something to restore our besmirched reputation and credibility, but of course we will do nothing of the sort.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Thanks for posting.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The higher you climb, the more you show your arse.
I am curious how the elder Snowden knows what he says.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)speaking without direct knowledge. A father first and foremost, desperate to make a deal.
Speaking out to his son by this means via the press and I have to wonder if there was something promised
or an alleged promise by Wiki that fell through. My speculations, I should keep to myself,
but there they are, lol.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)There is a huge fucking army of people out there this minute obsessively hunting his kid.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)of whether or not it be feasible. It is what a father would attempt, at the very least, for his son.
He points a finger at Wiki, and it made me wonder about a relationship that was to occur, but did not.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)...a public trial would run the risk that he would shout out the name of an agent in, say, China, just to fuck us over some more.
Snowden has proven he can't be trusted with national security secrets.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]
bemildred
(90,061 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)I don't think so.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)by dictating terms.
"He said he has not spoken with his son since Edward left the country last month."
So then how does he know what his son wants ?
think
(11,641 posts)Ellsberg was released by a judge on his own recognizance, had NO gag order placed on him, and was free to talk to whom ever he wanted before his trial started.
Modern whistleblowers who follow the system are turned over to the DOJ for prosecution, have their lives turned upside,and utterly ignored by the main stream media.
These 3 NSA whistleblowers at a recent USA Today roundtable describe how FUTILE it is to try and report wrong doing using official channels:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/
Ask Sibel Edmonds about gag orders and her ability to tell the truth and expose govt crime. Secret Law has made democracy & the constitution nothing more than a sad joke.
So it might not be real surprising that Snowden's father would prefer his son's constitutional rights won't be ignored and that no gag orders placed on him to silence his defense....
hack89
(39,171 posts)it is clear that Snowden is a flight risk.
think
(11,641 posts)how the US no longer respects the civil rights of whistle blowers.
Or should we just ignore what happened to the whistleblowers who FOLLOWED the law?
hack89
(39,171 posts)that's all.
think
(11,641 posts)Sure he could have went the legal route, followed the chain of command, had the comptroller general turn his name over to the DOJ for prosecution, have his home raided and documents removed, all while been ignored by the FREE press and the abuses of govt by the NSA & private corporations continued just like the previous whistleblowers.
So sure if he just wanted his life totally fucked up while achieving NOTHING he could have tried to follow the rules imposed by those who are breaking the laws.....
hack89
(39,171 posts)it would appear that global support for the guy is not as great as some would have us believe.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)think
(11,641 posts)And with the NDAA authorizing the legal indefinite detainment of American citizens why should Snowden expect any better treatment than Manning?
Daniel Ellsberg, the Pentagon Papers whistle blower, had this to say about Snowden's options:
by Peter Lee Jun 28, '13
Ellsberg:
"The NDAA, National Defense Authorization Act, permits military custody indefinitely of an American citizen who's a civilian, and Snowden could very well find himself at Quantico, naked perhaps like Bradley was for a while, and be really incommunicado, as Bradley has been for three years with the single exception of being allowed to make a statement when he pled guilty to 10 charges. And that's the only chance he had to speak out. So I think Snowden has learned from that example."
~Snip~
Full article:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-280613.html
The whistleblowers who followed the chain of command were all handed over to the DOJ for indictment. These other NSA whistleblowers were later not charged but they were put under gag orders and their testimony muted. So they followed the chain of command and got screwed.
So please feel free to tell us what Snowden was suppose to do......
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)voluntarily.
'Flight risk' is positively Orwellian.
hack89
(39,171 posts)a private jet and and a welcoming country is all he needs.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)for fleeing rather than facing the music. (Saw a post just this morning comparing Snowden unfavorably to Ellsberg, b/c Ellsberg didn't flee - maybe in this thread even!)
Now Snowden would be voluntarily returning to face trial - the ostensible objective of those pious patriots - and he's a 'flight risk'?
I say he should refuse to return to the U.S. and demand instead a trial at the World Court. That would at least allow the proponents of patriotic piety to continue their grousing about Snowden's "cowardice."
Of course, where I come from, we call such patriotic piety by a different name, something that comprises lively double standards and involves inmates of the 8th circle of Dante's Inferno.
hack89
(39,171 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)jurisdiction either.
hack89
(39,171 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)has offered Snowden asylum:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/28/311253/venezuela-renews-asylum-offer-to-snowden/
hack89
(39,171 posts)and Venezuela knows that. Snowden can't travel without a passport.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)an embassy in Moscow. Said embassy is Venezuelan territory under international law.
See also: Julian Assange and Ecuadorean embassy in the UK.
Nice try, though.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Russian wants Snowden gone, not sitting in the Venezuelan embassy in Moscow.
Notice how Assange is trapped in London - he cannot step outside without being arrested.
Spending years in a Venezuelan embassy in Moscow is not my idea of being free.
ellenfl
(8,660 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)and the Bruins are a great team.
I'm a Hawks fan but honestly it could have gone either way.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)As the idea of negotiating the US wouldn't agree to the terms and he won't come back anyway so it's quite ridiculous for him or his family to say he is willing to come back. Most likely Ecuador will given him asylum and that will be the end of it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)because Snowden is making Obama look bad which is funny because Obama was looking pretty bad all on his own.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)return to Samuel Johnson's wisdom: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)There's a cult of hero worship on DU surrounding Obama in which a few engage. There aren't many of them left holding on to their blind loyalty but those few are vociferous and very prolific.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)I have seen some claim him as a hero (even though those same people blasted Scooter Libby for revealing Plames name as an agent for the CIA which was classified) but the board as far as I can tell hasnt been full of people calling him coward or atleast not in most of the threads I have read over this issue.
Then again I suppose I could have missed it as people keep creating their own topics over him scattered all over on the DU.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)to become undocumented aliens! Going the other way is likely much easier. Then on down to Ecuador.
ancianita
(36,133 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)a super fast internet connection wherever he may land!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)He will be placed in detention straightaway.
However, I think he's a good candidate for bail, despite his laughable voyage, so that could probably be worked out in hearings.
He'll get 3-5 in a federal for reduced charges.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)What with all that delicious food available to him in the Russian transit area, all those nights filled with partying in his own room with himself, all of those reality tv program offers that keep pouring in, and now he may even be able to sell his movie script.
Or not.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)again, he didn't think out his plan very well.
If he intended to be the hero for the paulbots, scratch that, he's is after all this falling into the perfect image of a coward.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Snowden's father: My son may return to US, being manipulated by WikiLeaks
Edward Snowden's father says his son could return to back to the US if certain conditions are met, NBC reports. Snowden wants to remain at large before trial and choose where it would take place. The father insists his NSA-leaker son was manipulated.
Edward Snowden also would like prosecutors not to file a so-called gag order, which bans information or any comments from being made public, Lonnie Snowden said.
The channel reports Snowden Snr. intends to send a letter to the US Justice Department and attorney General Eric Holder through his lawyer later on Friday.
Lonnie Snowden, who has not spoken to his son since April, believes his son was manipulated by third parties, including WikiLeaks.
I think WikiLeaks, if you've looked at past history, you know, their focus isn't necessarily the Constitution of the United States. It's simply to release as much information as possible, Snowden Snr. told NBCs Today.
http://rt.com/usa/snowden-father-return-usa-377/
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)Holder worshipper, are we?
I don't expect he could do anything acceptable or not, with that much saliva dripping from his ass.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:55 AM - Edit history (1)
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Botany
(70,582 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)tied to the stake and the flames are rising up around them, that they can demand ice water and a designer asbestos suit?
Who does he think he is? And he may not have "spoken" to his son, but I'll betcha a donut he's exchanged EMAILS with the little shit.
I hope he's good at languages--Russian is a (pun intended) real BEAR to learn...and surprisingly, the easiest part is the alphabet!
How nice that he'll be able to get the Full Immersion Program at the Moscow Transit Lounge University!
I have to wonder--have Ecuador and VZ told him to pound sand? I hope so--he did not do this right at all, and I'm not fully convinced he even knows what the hell he's talking about.
askeptic
(478 posts)more cake for the masses to detour them to nonsensical speculative adventures...
MADem
(135,425 posts)He may not have "spoken" to his son but I'll bet he's gotten emails or texts from him.
I think the NPR theory that he's hidden away at the guarded NOVOTEL Hotel for non-visa holders is probably accurate. I wonder who is paying for that?
Nancy Waterman
(6,407 posts)he still has. Essentially, what he would be doing is extortion: you treat me well and give me a deal or I release them.
And they are in the hands of others, so there is no guarantee they can be gotten back anyway.
ancianita
(36,133 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)He has nothing to trade.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Tell the Justice Dept., "my son would like the same deal you gave the Bush administration and the banksters. "
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)Also, in the article, it said that they haven't even spoken. So, this is just what the dad is saying.
edit:
Updated since I had only read the original Reuters article.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Snowden's father was on TV a few weeks ago begging his son to come home and displaying an incredible degree of naivete about his son's situation.
Here's how the BBC reported this story earlier
Lon Snowden told NBC News his son may return if he is not detained before trial, nor subjected to a gag order and can choose where his trial is held.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23100746#
Wonder of wonders my friend, I just checked your link to see if later in the USA Today article they put any qualifiers on it and look at this. They changed the sentence already!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/28/edward-snowden-nbc-today-show-nsa-return-home-traitor/2471273/
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I haven't seen quite this much bullshit since the election.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)It's embarrassing too.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Featured News, Politics, World | Friday, June 28, 2013
Source:: Expreso Newspaper
Lonnie Snowden, father of the former CIA analyst, who is accused by the U.S. of espionage said this Friday that Edward is willing to surrender and return to the country only under the condition that they not be imprison him before being processed and not be forced to remain silent.
...
Snowdens father said he had sent through his lawyer, a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, text in which the former analyst of the National Security Agency (NSA) explains that he plans to return to the United States only if hes not immediately arrested or forced to remain silent and can choose where the process takes place.
....
http://www.ecuadortimes.net/2013/06/28/snowden-would-return-to-the-united-states-only-with-conditions/
These doofuses are so out of their league. Anyone paying any attention is on to their game.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)the future tense 'will' and the conditional-subjunctive mood 'would'.
Not that I expect that to slow down the pious proponents of patriotism in the slightest.
Your linguistic sleuthing skills are clearly a match for Chomsky's. In short, you ROCK!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)In this case it was mostly that this story made no more sense than the stories about how we had Ecuador in a squeeze with that stupid trade deal that was just a fig leaf for the US war on drugs. NBC can always be counted on to carry water for the MIC.
Renew Deal
(81,871 posts)The US can set terms too. Snowden should come home voluntarily or the US will use any means possible to bring him home.
treestar
(82,383 posts)How many terms has Julian required of various governments, that they do exceptional things in his case? Maybe it goes with the leaker territory.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)That "dictate" word must have been used by the mass media because it keeps popping up here.
And the U.S. most likely not use "any means possible." If they wanted to torture him, they should have kept it from the press (although they don't seem to torture White people), and had CIA pick him up and "rendition" him.
MADem
(135,425 posts)http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-usa-security-snowden-russia-idUSBRE95O1DG20130625
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)wandy
(3,539 posts)Somehow I don't think that being a 'man without a country', cooling you're heals at a Russian airport, with you're pockets possibly stuffed with U.S. secrets is the bestest situation to be in.
Why do I hear Warren Zevon.
But how was I to know it.
She was with the Russians too.
Send Lawyers Guns and Money.
Dad get me out of here.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)They'll stay far away!
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)comply with it?
They have had people in cages in Cuba for a decade now with no court hearing, indictment, or charges.
They'll do whatever the fuck they want.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)What an asshat.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)I wonder who went to whom: father to NSA, or...nevermind.
mulsh
(2,959 posts)was " here's the deal. No deal. You get nothing."
Turbineguy
(37,366 posts)All is forgiven!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Snowdens father, who knows his son far better than anyone on the internets believes that Snowden is being manipulated.
But I guess, others will discount this as will
Again the descriptor, Useful Idiot comes to mind. Im pretty certain that, if we are honest with ourselves, we can reflect on an instance(s) in our lives where we THOUGHT we were doing the right thing for the right reason
only to find that that right thing was really for others reasons - that really had nothing to do with us.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)agree, someone backed this persons path in life. The excellent paying 'jobs' that fell into his lap. Someone directed him towards the high security job with 3 months,unmonitored computer access. Someone helped him pass security and get hired. & someone backs the very expensive world run.
This is no lone wolf. Now his backers have dropped him. Only a matter of time before the Feds arrest him. He will be muzzled forever. His Dad should know the Gov won't allow free speech to a pending case person. His Dad should tell him to speak now about who backed him, how he got the jobs and passed the security clearances.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)because if he were to tell his whole story, it would expose him as a non-hero; but rather, at best a person with an innocent, but naive agenda, and at worst, the "useful idiot."
KinMd
(966 posts)..and he hopes that Jessie Eisenberg will play him in the movie
tonekat
(1,820 posts)Now he is on his own, to sleep in a pod and subsist on junk food. I suppose he could form a club with that other guy who's stuck in an airport somewhere because of citizenship issues.
frontier00
(154 posts)He sounds like a concerned parent