Al Gore takes aim at "unsustainable" capitalism

[cyberpj]

Like they don't hate him enough already for exposing Global Warming, er, uh, Climate Change!

This should be interesting to watch...

Al Gore takes aim at "unsustainable" capitalism
By Sinead Cruise | Reuters – 1 hr 21 mins ago

LONDON (Reuters) - Former Vice President Al Gore wants to end quarterly company reporting and explore issuing loyalty-driven securities as part of an overhaul of capitalism which he says has turned many of the world's largest economies into hotbeds for irresponsible short-term investment.

Together with David Blood, senior partner of 'green' fund firm Generation Investment Management, the environmental activist has crafted a blueprint for "sustainable capitalism" he wants the financial industry to adopt to support lasting economic growth.

snip-
At a briefing ahead of Thursday's launch, David Blood said capitalism has been blighted with short-termism and an obsession with instant investment results, which had ramped up market volatility, widened the gap between rich and poor and deflected attention from the deepening climate crisis.

The former CEO of Goldman Sachs Asset Management put forward five key actions which he hoped would revive the discussion on how to clean up capitalism and put companies, investors and stakeholders on the path towards long-term, sustainable profit.

More:
http://news.yahoo.com/al-gore-takes-aim-unsustainable-capitalism-164819308.html

[YvonneCa]

1. Good article. Thanks for posting...

...this. Comments are a bit frightening, though.

[xtraxritical]

5. You're right the comments are very scary.

Al Gore has always been sincere in his desire to improve things for everyone, and has spent a great amount of time studying approaches to 21st century problems. I've read a couple of his books and know this to be true.

The comments of the yahoos on Yahoo are just mean spirited and purely ego driven to appear cool to the other yahoos. Not one of their opinions is informed by anything other than peer pressure. In other words they're a gaggle of high schoolers that need to be "cool" because they have no accomplishments enhance their self esteem. My advice is read some nonfiction and turn off the TV.

P.S. DU'ers are cool for real.

[YvonneCa]

10. I agree completely. I'll bet I've read...

...the same books.

[tech_smythe]

13. Humanity is rapidly approaching a point of forced evolution

socially and economically.
the cold war is over
the war on terrah is arguably over
the oil is running out

deeeeeeeeeep down they know this.
they know the golden age of unrestrained consumption is over, or ending very soon.
but they re self serving troglodytes and can't, wont change
they're afraid of change.
they are the bullies and popular ones from school. they always got their way
they were never forced to evolve and adapt because the situation always changed for them.

but now... they have no choice and it scares them to death (and rightfully so)

they know they won't be welcome in the new world. so they're taking a scorched earth approach.
if they can't do it, fuck everyone else!

I see this kind of self-interested garbage more and more and it scares and saddens me.

[tabatha]

2. Absolutely agree.

And maybe this is the time to do it when so many countries are failing under this version of capitalism.

[Klukie]

3. I Love him!!

[Uncle Joe]

4. It's way past time that Wall Street started taking the long view.

Thanks for the thread, cyperpj.

[cyberpj]

30. I'm one of those who never stops thinking about that alternate reality timeline where

Gore fought back and was actually able to become President of the US back in Y2K.

What might our country look like now, ten years later?

Sigh..............

[bread_and_roses]

6. "Sustainable" and "Capitalism" don't belong in the same sentence (n/t)

[TBF]

25. Post of the day. nt

[The Doctor.]

7. Wow, the sheer ignorance of those comments!

These people have no exposure to reality. They just have the wretched information bubbles they live in. I'd be amazed if any of them could ever deal with reality without having a breakdown.

[Uncle Joe]

8. If ignorance is bliss, they must be the happiest people on the planet. n/t

[YvonneCa]

11. DUzy! I LOVE this...

...comment.

[cyberpj]

31. It's easy to post talking points because you don't have to have an actual discussion about facts...

Have you ever seen one of these Fox-ites caught in an intelligent conversation with an opposing point of view.
They have nothing to contribute but what they've been fed.
It's just sad.

[cyberpj]

50. Saturday kick for the weekenders. nt

[politicasista]

9. Kick

[patrice]

12. KICK!

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. Except, of course, for companies Gore sits on the board of.

Like, oh...you know.

[Uncle Joe]

15. What evidence do you have than an exception would exist for them or are you just pulling this

speculation out of some dark and stinky sphincter?

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Al Gore's bona fides as a hypocrite of Order One are well established

(see, for example, his multiple and enormous homes), so why wouldn't a board member of the
MOST VALUABLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD want to protect his property while destroying that
of others?

[Uncle Joe]

17. So then you have no evidence, thanks for the answer.

You might consider that perhaps a board member of the MOST VALUABLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD has the good sense and vision to recognize that it could all be for naught should the world go to hell in a handbasket.

He might know that runaway capitalism is a growing, major threat to all business, not to mention human society in general.

If you're going to change the game, the best position and time to do so is when you're at the top of the heap.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. But by all means, don't start with his own company's private slaves in China.

That would be universal disarmament, right?

[Uncle Joe]

19. Why do you think business practices overseas won't change if the dynamics are changed here at home.

"While we believe that capitalism is fundamentally superior to any other system for organizing economic activity, it is also clear that some of the ways in which it is now practiced do not incorporate sufficient regard for its impact on people, society and the planet," Gore said."

(snip)

Companies have also been encouraged to integrate financial reporting with insight on environmental, social and governance policy so investors can clearly see how performance in the latter can contribute to the former."

Gore is addressing cause and effect on a macro level, working to change the destructive business practices of the entire market.

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. Physician, heal thyself. nt

[Uncle Joe]

21. No physician can stay healthy long if everyone is sick. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. That makes exactly zero sense.

Then again, a quick glance at your avatar renders anything I have to say moot, doesn't it?

More iPads, damn you! My jet needs fuel so I can go tell people not to fly in jets!

[Uncle Joe]

24. The system is sick and any companies that Gore sits on the board

of do not have a monopoly on your concerns with overseas labor abuse.

If Apple were to go away today, there would be a replacement if not more than one strongly influenced if not forced to do the same, because our system of valuation is sick.

If the system isn't structurally changed, the same adverse dynamics of short term thinking, greed is God and myopic vision will take all viable large corporations; even those with stated high ideals down the same path in a push to excel in a toxic environment.

A new path must be blazed, that's what Gore is trying to do.

[fascisthunter]

27. exactly....

[cyberpj]

32. Not to mention that any seat he may hold on a 'board' is only one seat among anywhere from

2 or 3 to who-knows-how-many other seats that also hold votes.

[Uncle Joe]

33. Here is something else to take into consideration as well

From a post by "onehandle"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=54026

"Apple is the only tech company that has joined the Fair Trade Association."

Surely other tech companies have joined the Fair Trade Association by now?

If they haven't why aren't we hearing about them?

[LanternWaste]

34. I imagine that when we are reduced to bumper-sticker philosophies

I imagine that when we are reduced to bumper-sticker philosophies, it's because we lack anything of relevance or substance to address the actual on-stage issue, and instead rely on either tired platitudes, or simply failing to address the message itself.

Human nature, I suppose.

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. So Al Gore is on the board of the most valuable company in the world

which got that way from using slave labor in China, yet it's CAPITALISM IN GENERAL he's trying to fix.

Classic Al Gore: "Why solve my own problems and in so doing be an example to others, when I can
just go tell other people what to do and keep doing whatever I want?"

[Uncle Joe]

41. Hey did you see this part?

on a post by onehandle,

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=54026

"Apple is the only tech company that has joined the Fair Trade Association.

Foxconn is trying to get out ahead of the inspections.

Where's Google? HP? Dell? Amazon? Samsung? Asus? Microsoft? Any of the dozens of other companies that use the same workers as Apple?"

or this part on an OP by grahamhgreen?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101453996

"Foxconn Increases Wages, Raises Pay By 16-25% For Chinese Workers - TechCrunch

"The company just released a statement indicating pay raises for Chinese workers just before the Fair Trade Association is set to interview employees about life at Foxconn.

The base pay of junior level worker in Shenzhen is now at 1,800 yuan ($290) per month and, if the worker passes a technical examination, it will be raised to 2,200 yuan. Three years ago the base pay was just 900 yuan per month."

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Perhaps Gore is working to "solve the problems" as a member of the board of "THE MOST VALUABLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD" both in house and on a more fundamental macro level.

I look forward to seeing you giving Gore kudos on your next post, unless of course you're truly not sincere about giving a rat's ass about Chinese workers, slave labor etc. etc.

[Uncle Joe]

43. You didn't actually address the three major points or facts of the post,

and that's a fact.

1. Is Foxconn more than just Apple, yes or no?

2. Is Apple the only major tech company to join the Fair Trade Association?

3. Is Foxconn changing or improving their labor policies perhaps from percieved pressure of the Fair Trade Association?

[hughee99]

47. Two very recent developments for a company that he's been on the BoD of

for close to a decade.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/03/19Former-Vice-President-Al-Gore-Joins-Apples-Board-of-Directors.html

[Uncle Joe]

48. When did Apple's BoD become aware

of the labor problems?

Did they try to get the Chinese to improve their labor practices before these recent developments?

[hughee99]

49. If they were on the DU they'd have known for several years now.

So I'd think they'd be AT LEAST as informed as DUers. I'm not sure what they did to encourage the improvement of labor practices in the past, but recent announcements seem to indicate that any suggestions they may have made didn't change things very much. Who knows, maybe the nets to stop the workers from jumping off the building was Apple's idea. I have yet to see ANY suggestion from someone in the company that they're working on moving their production somewhere where they WOULD have more say in how the workers were treated, which one MIGHT expect to have seen if China wasn't being responsive to requests they had made.

[Uncle Joe]

51. Well apparently for "several years," their salary increases have outpaced those in the U.S.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/foxconn-increases-wages-raises-pay-by-16-25-for-chinese-workers/

"The base pay of junior level worker in Shenzhen is now at 1,800 yuan ($290) per month and, if the worker passes a technical examination, it will be raised to 2,200 yuan. Three years ago the base pay was just 900 yuan per month."

(snip)

Foxconn is often viewed as a good entry-level job in China. The work is hard, no doubt, but the pay is fair for the region and job seekers often line up by the thousands for a chance to work at Foxconn. Not only is the pay a good deal higher than the required minimum but the company also provides dorms, meals, and recreational facilities for its workers. Foxconn is viewed as a way to move from the fields to the city.

________________________________________________________________________________

My understanding is that Foxconn has a vast number of employees converting from an agricultural life to an industrial/urban life, no doubt they go through great cultural stress. This is not to hold the company harmless in the treatment of their employees, but I wonder how their suicide rate compares to our military?

I imagine both groups suffer from PTSD.

One thing seems to be apparent the Chinese still line up by the thousands for the jobs.

[hughee99]

52. Given the current state at Foxconn that Apple recently admitted to,

You're going to have a hell of a time convincing me Apple is pushing for workers rights and being very successful at it. If they're not getting what they want, why aren't they working on alternative production methods. If they ARE getting what they want with respect to this issue, then they're not really pushing very hard (hell, apple could cut a check to foxconn for everyone working on apple components and make sure everyone there makes $50K USD and STILL make a profit on their stuff if they wanted). Apple, in truth is working on getting exactly what they want... cheap labor without the bad PR from it.

Besides, 3 years ago, the workers were making 900 yuan a month and making apple products. I don't fault Apple for not knowing the names of the individual workers at foxconn, but they should have some idea about the basics of the companies they do business with (like roughly how much workers make, their work hours, etc...). It sounds to me like you're giving them a pass for everything before 3 years ago, and suggesting that any improvements in the last 3 years MAY have been due to Apple's pressure.

[Uncle Joe]

54. What did Microsoft, Amazon, Hewlett Packard and a multiitude of other tech companies admit to?

"Less than a month ago, the Times ran a damning account of working conditions at the Foxconn factory. Although the company's suicides and potentially hazardous work environments have been covered for years, this was the powder keg that launched a very public backlash against Apple and sparked an independent investigation. As you may expect, Apple was probably none-too-pleased about the way the paper specifically called it out in the headline -- despite the fact that Foxconn manufactures products for Microsoft (MSFT), Amazon (AMZN), Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), and many other companies."

Read more: http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/2012/02/17/apple-exposes-bitter-grudge-with/#ixzz1mlymjsE2

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"As Tim Worstall has pointed out, there’s nothing particularly noteworthy about Foxconn’s manufacturing in China, or Apple’s relationship with it. Oppressive conditions are par-for-the course over there, and Foxconn actually has a slightly lower suicide rate than China writ-large. and any electronics company worth their salt does their manufacturing in similar conditions: it’s the game they all play, and it’s the game we demand when we ask for cheap electronics."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/02/10/why-does-apples-manufacturing-bother-us-so-much/

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If FOXCONN's suicide rate is actually lower than of China's at large, why would corporate media institution N.Y. Times make such a big story out of it and put the blame solely on Apple?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7611747

PTSD suicide rate exceeds ALL US deaths in Iraq/ Afghanistan

The disease affects one out of every six veterans and last year contributed to 334 suicides among service members, which is higher than the number of service members who were killed in Afghanistan or Iraq during the same time period, Rhodes said. The disease nearly caused him to take his own life in 2007.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Could the Times have been feeling guilt because of the great number of American Veterans' suicides from Afghanistan and Iraq, the latter being a war based on lies which the Times was front and center promoting to the American People during their stenographer, brown nosing days of the Cheney/Bush Era?

Do you know if the N.Y Times has admitted to anything yet?

[hughee99]

55. Hey, look over here, look over here.

For the purposes of THIS discussion, what the NY times admitted or didn't admit is irrelevant. What HP, Amazon and Microsoft did is irrelevant.

Gore has been on Apple's board for a long time. Apple has had a deal with Foxconn for a long time. I don't expect people at Apple to know if the workers in the Foxconn plant's sector 7G are getting shortchanged 5 minutes a day on their break, but they should know if people are making slave wages or forced to work 12 hours a day. If Apple couldn't be sure the supplier wouldn't embarrass them, they SHOULDN'T have gone into business in the first place. A lot companies don't give a fuck, but people seem to expect more from Apple and particularly Al Gore, especially when talks about the evils of our capitalist system. Apple didn't do much about this issue, and seems to be getting a lot of credit for putting up with the same abuses as the other companies FOR YEARS, but coming out a few weeks earlier than other companies to denounce them. No word about Apple offering to give Foxconn more money for what they buy on the deal they pay their workers better. No word about Apple threatening to move manufacturing to a place where they have more say in the labor practices. Nope, they just find the current situation unacceptable and are "working on it". Don't give me this "But APPLE is socially responsible" crap. If they were, they wouldn't be weeks ahead of other companies on these sort of issues, they'd be YEARS ahead of them. The difference between Apple, HP, Microsoft and others is just that Apple has more adept PR people who got out in front of this issue better than the other companies once they knew it was going to be a story anyway.

[Fool Count]

23. Capitalism needs to die and be buried once and for all.

Trying to make it "sustainable" is a palliative measure which could not last.

[Bigmack]

26. Infinite growth in a finite system is a logical impossibility.. nt

[laundry_queen]

44. And this is the crux of the problem

Unfortunately the whole system is set up to only function in an infinite growth medium and to revamp the whole system is akin to trying to stop a diesel engine 100-car train in the foot before it runs over the victim on the track. I believe it is simply too big, too complex to be stopped now. Something huge will have to happen - something that brings all humans to their knees - and only then will we be able to rebuild a fair, finite-based, conservation-based system. Let's just hope someone doesn't try to 'shock doctrine' us first in an attempt to keep the current, dying system.

[Uncle Joe]

46. I believe that's why Gore is not suggesting revamping the whole system, this is more like applying

a brake slowing and equalizing the process to make transistion easier and to give humanity/society time.

My earnest hope is that humanity can master space travel to the point that our fate is tied to that of the galaxy and universe not just the planet or solar system.

[NeoConsSuck]

56. Exactly !

Capitalism is like a shark. It needs to keep moving forward, if it stands still, it can't breathe and suffocates. Profits must always increase, consumption must always rise. The entire stock market is based on future earnings, and they better be more than what they're making today, or the stock will sink like a rock.

In a finite world, this economic system is doomed. Time to retire capitalism for the sake of the planet.

[unkachuck]

28. thank you Mr. Gore....

"While we believe that capitalism is fundamentally superior to any other system for organizing economic activity, it is also clear that some of the ways in which it is now practiced do not incorporate sufficient regard for its impact on people, society and the planet," Gore said.

....I empathize with your desire to curb the excesses of capitalism but should we not be looking towards a more managed global economic model in which abusive competition is minimized and resources are more equitably shared? Half the worlds' population goes to bed hungry while our planet can no longer sustain the unregulated environmental raping.

"...capitalism is fundamentally superior to any other system for organizing economic activity..."

....during the last decade and even today, governments around the world have demonstrated their inability to control the evils of capitalism....what appears to be 'superior to any other system' is merely the economic self-interest of the few, being pursued with little or no concern for the consequences....capitalism is an inherently undemocratic system which can not be made democratic....

[lovuian]

35. Unregulated Capitalism is a failed system

we have lived through two Great Depressions and mutiple Recessions

It only allows the 1% to own all the assets

this is why the Kings had their heads chopped off

People got FED UP

[nanabugg]

36. I see a marriage here. At last some people putting people first again.

Could this be the bride and groom of national capitalism where the interests of the nation trumps the greed of fat cats on Wall Street and the Corporate Boards and CEOs?

http://www.care2.com/care2blog/new-york-rolls-out-new-kind-of-corporation.html

[hughee99]

37. Gore ought to go find the worlds most valuable company, kick down the doors of the Corporate

Board meeting and give all them greedy fat cats hell!

[Dreamer Tatum]

40. Absolutely. He wouldn't even need to kick the door in - he has the key. nt

[Uncle Joe]

38. This looks most promising, nanabugg.

This new law has the ability to transform the State and national economy by creating businesses that must create benefit for society and the environment in addition to profit. Thirteen businesses from across the State rushed to adopt the new corporate form as they build a new economy. One company even left Delaware and incorporated in New York State to take advantage of this innovative corporate form. Currently seven states, including New York, have enacted benefit corporation laws.

(snip)

Benefit corporations are a new kind of corporation legally required to: 1) have a corporate purpose to create a material positive impact on society and the environment; 2) expand fiduciary duty to require consideration of the interests of workers, community and the environment; and 3) publicly report annually on its overall social and environmental performance using a comprehensive, credible, independent, and transparent third party standard. Traditional corporate law requires corporations to prioritize the financial interests of shareholders over the interests of workers, communities, and the environment.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/care2blog/new-york-rolls-out-new-kind-of-corporation.html#ixzz1mfQxvMJT

Welcome to D.U.

[nanabugg]

45. Thanks! nt

[Mopar151]

53. Good - this is long overdue

If for no reason than the conflict between short-term results (particularly stock price) and longterm shareholder value.