Abbas threatens ‘all options open’ if US-led diplomatic bid fails

[Mosby]

Source: Times of Israel

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas warned in comments published Monday that “all options are open” if there is no substantive progress in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

The comments, Abbas’s first since US Secretary of State John Kerry announced on Friday that peace talks would resume after a hiatus of almost three years, may be an attempt to exert pressure on the US and Israel to meet Palestinian demands on the terms of formal negotiations.

Kerry said Israeli and Palestinian representatives would meet in Washington within days to resume the negotiations. “We have reached an agreement that establishes a basis for resuming negotiations,” he said. But Abbas’s two spokespeople contradicted the secretary on Sunday, saying in separate interviews that the path to resumed negotiations had not yet been cleared, and that the imminent meetings in Washington were aimed only at seeking to finalize the terms for the new negotiations.

Israel’s leaders, by contrast, have indicated that they hold to Kerry’s declaration, and are anticipating resumed negotiations without preconditions.



Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-threatens-all-options-open-if-peace-talks-fail/

---

The Palestinian leadership are playing games, as usual.

[RiverNoord]

1. Um... Ok...

The primary precondition that the Palestinian authority demands is that Israel stop settling its citizens in occupied land before talks begin. Displacing the population of occupied land and moving in your citizens is severely illegal under several treaties Israel is a party to.

And this is 'playing games'? Whatever.

[Mosby]

6. the new settlement issue is a red herring

All the construction is taking place in areas that are near the green line and will be part of land swaps. Everyone on both sides know that.

[Douglas Carpenter]

7. we all know that without the removal of the vast majority of settlements - a contiguous and viable

Palestinian state is a physical impossibility - There is not a shred of evidence that the State of Israel ever viewed " the peace process" as anything other than scam to buy time while making a Palestinians state impossible. And they have succeeded.

There are approximately 450,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, (*now closer to 500,000) including East Jerusalem. According to B'tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights, " the built-up area of the settlements in the West Bank covers 1.7 percent of the West Bank, the settlements control 41.9 percent of the entire West Bank" .*

http://www.btselem.org/English/Maps/Index.asp

full PDF map:

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Settlements_Map_Eng.pdf

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fdu#axzz2ZoDLB6il


“there is no Palestinian state, even though the Israelis speak of one.” Instead, he said, “there will be a settler state and a Palestinian built-up area, divided into three sectors, cut by fingers of Israeli settlement and connected only by narrow roads."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/world/middleeast/11road.html?_r=12&pagewanted=2&ei=5070&en=22948d4799a34065&ex=1187496000&emc=eta1&oref


Israel has never slowed down its relentless settlment expansion - never



Comprehensive Settlement Population 1972-2008
— filed under: general-stats, stats


Year West Bank Gaza Strip East Jerusalem Golan Heights Total
1972 1,182 700 8,649 77 10,608
1983 22,800 900 76,095 6,800 106,595
1985 44,100 1,900 103,900* 8,700 158,700
1989 69,800 3,000 117,100 10,000 199,900
1990 78,600 3,300 135,000 10,600 227,500
1991 90,300 3,800 137,300 11,600 243,000
1992 101,100 4,300 141,000 12,000 258,400
1993 111,600 4,800 152,800 12,600 281,800
1995 133,200 5,300 157,300 13,400 309,200
1996 142,700 5,600 160,400 13,800 322,500
1997 154,400 5,700 161,416 14,300 335,816
1998 163,300 6,100 165,967 14,900 350,267
1999 177,411 6,337 170,123 15,313 369,184
2000 192,976 6,678 172,250 15,955 387,859
2002 214,722 7,277 175,617 16,503 414,119
2003 224,669 7,556 178,601 16,791 427,617
2004 234,487 7,826 181,587 17,265 441,828
2005 258,988 0 184,057 17,793 460,838
2006 268,400 0 186,857 18,105
473,362
2007 276,462 0 189,708 18,692 484,862
2008 295,380 0 n/a 19,083 n/a

*1986 data

Source: Central Bureau of Statistics, Statistical Abstract of Israel, 1992-2008 and List of Localities, the Populations, and Symbols, 1995-2007. Statistical Yearbook of Jerusalem, Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies, 1991-2008.

http://www.fmep.org/settlement_info/settlement-info-and-tables/stats-data/comprehensive-settlement-population-1972-2006

[Mosby]

8. we all know that "Palestine" must be free of Jews.

OK, we get it. No Jews in the future Islamic state of Palestine.

Unlike Israel who absorbed 156,000 muslims (19% of the population) in 1948 the Palestinians have clearly stated that Jews are not welcome in Palestine. Interestingly American and European progressives support this position. I guess multiculturalism only applies to westerners.

In case anyone cares, the vast majority of Jewish Israeli settlers, most of whom are not of the religious variety, live within a couple miles of the green line. Israel is willing to relocate the 100K or so that live deeper in the WB, including the residents of Ariel.

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. you know and I know that 85% of the native indigenous population were forced out of Palestine in

Last edited Tue Jul 23, 2013, 01:51 AM - Edit history (2)

1948 in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing by the Zionist forces *- the remaining manufactured Arab minority remained under military occupation until 1966 and still to this day are far from treated as equals. This obviously contrast greatly with the Israeli Jewish settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem who live in absolute superiority over their Arab neighbors who are kept by force at a distance and with no rights whatsoever. It was and is a violation of International Law to resettle a civilian population inside territory occupied by force such as happened continuously and relentless - not even pretending to restrain for any peace process. Are those Israeli-Jewish citizens who want to remain inside a future Palestine state willing to live as equals inside a Palestinian state? Or will they continue to live as they are now with special roads. control over the water supply and energy supply and completely outside the jurisdiction of the Palestinians state while the Israel state continues total control over the road system, the electric grid. the water supply and in fact expo fact control over all departure and movement from any future Palestinian state - which is all that is being proposed to them. The network control over the territory of any future Palestinian state did not happen by accident. What we saw in the so-called peace process was the massive expansion of settlement activities and the infrastructure to support it which by itself negates any possibility of a viable independent state.

Imagine any state being supposedly granted independence but with a hostile foreign entity controlling entry and movement form that supposedly independent state along with that state diced up so that even internal movement is not possible without the approval of that hostile foreign entity. Imagine that supposedly independent state having its electric grid and water supply and even its airspace under the control of a hostile foreign entity.

From Scars of War Wounds of Peace: The Arab Israeli Tragedy by former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami


from page 42:

"The reality on the ground was at times far simpler and more cruel than what Ben-Gurion was ready to acknowledge. It was that of an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation, at at times atrocities and massacres it perpetrated against the civilian Arab community. A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arabs' monument of grief and hatred."


and from page 43:

" Benny Morris found no evidence to show 'that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus'. Indeed Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and the Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to gave been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions..."

From page 44:

"The first major wave of Arab exodus in April-May 1948, essentially in the wake of the Dir Yassin massacre that was perpetrated by Lehi and Irgun with the Haganah's connivance and the unfolding of Plan D, might perhaps have taken the leadership of the Yishuv by surprise. But they undoubtedly saw an opportunity to be exploited, a phenomenon to rejoice at -- Manachem Begin wrote in his memoirs, The Revolt, that 'out of evil, however, good came-and be encouraged. 'Doesn't he have anything more important to do?' was Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

from page 44:

"The debate about whether or not the mass exodus of Palestinians was the result of a Zionist design or the inevitable concomitant of war could not ignore the ideological constructs that motivated the Zionist enterprise. The philosophy of transfer was not a marginal, esoteric article....These ideological constructs provided a legitimate environment for commanders in the field to encourage the eviction of the local population even when no precise order to that effect was issued by the political leaders. As early as February 1948, that is before the mass exodus had started but after he witnessed how Arabs had fled West Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion could not hide his excitement."

"Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

[Mosby]

15. the Arabs rolled the dice and lost - big time

Ben Ami talks about this starting on page 35.

Much of the Aggressive Defense doctrine was developed during and after the experiences the yishuv had dealing with the Arab revolt and the overt antisemitism in the region during that time.

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. to quote Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the philosophic father of the Israeli right, who way back 1923

"Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of foreign settlement. This is how the Arabs will behave and go on behaving so long as they possess a gleam of hope that they can prevent Palestine from becoming the Land of Israel".
(from 13, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab Word by Avi Shlaim

There is no indigenous people in the history of the world who ever accepted the resurpation of their homeland without a fierce fight as long as they had a means to resist and even most of the time when they didn't. There is absolutely no reason why the Palestinians would have accepted a bunch of Europeans claiming Palestine or a part of Palestine. They did exactly what you would have done, I would have done all peoples everyone everywhere in the world would have done when confronted with an alien campaign to usurp their homeland.

What was most unusual - that since 1988 the Palestinians agreed to seek peace with the Israeli state and they begin their negotiations accepting the loss of 78% of their homeland. Talk of a generous offer. What indigenous people have ever began negotiations over their homeland with renouncing their claim on 78% of their homeland? But that was not enough for the State of Israel. Nothing seems to be.

[Ash_F]

16. If I am not mistaken, Palestinians are not allowed on those settlements. /nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Nice editorial comment. Maybe Israel should stop stealing Palestinian land.

Before it sits down to talk about how much more Palestinian land it wants to steal.

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. bloody well about time he put them on notice - long, long past due in fact

[JDPriestly]

4. Typical Palestinian game-playing.

If they stopped playing games and started working toward peace, they might get more of what they want.

The Palestinians always have some excuse for not dealing with reality. They are condemning their own children to lives of hopelessness.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. The Palestinians aren't the ones playing games

The ones playing games are the Israelis who are carving up their land as we speak.

The Israelis aren't interested in peace.

[The Stranger]

10. Funny seeing this here on DU -- constantly blaming the victim for being victimized.

It just looks weird here.

And it's comforting knowing that no one buys it for a second.

[hack89]

5. Including a crushing military defeat? nt

[jessie04]

11. Ooooo...I like when Abbas threatens.

It makes him seem like almost a man.

[Joey Liberal]

12. This is why the Palestinian's never gain anything

Abbas is in no position to make this sort of statement. It just makes them look bad. What options is he talking about? Firing more rockets into Israel and then letting his citizens take more poundings and suffering?

[freshwest]

14. Always suspect there is a profit to be made by prolonging this conflict. I don't buy the excuse...

That either side is crazy. This is like England and Ireland, years and years of the same thing. No matter how many times they seem to get it right, it just keeps on bubbling back up.

IDK, but I suspect it's a proxy war. Supposedly the major power on one side is the USA. Who is the other one, honestly?

At least no big news has come out of I/P lately. Which is good, as it's usually deadly. Haven't heard of any suicide bombings, missiles, etc.

The violence is not at that stage, just the daily commerce that breeds the violence. The rich versus poor.

Don't hear any good news out of I/P, either. Difficult to weigh down on one side or another. People get to going about that, not solutions.

So, the issue here is what? That this guy made a veiled threat?

MInd you, we hear this all the time here in the USA. But we're not lobbing missiles and shooting at each other yet.