NSA surveillance: White House makes plea to scrap Amash amendment

[limpyhobbler]

Last edited Tue Jul 23, 2013, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: The Guardian

The Obama administration has forcefully urged the defeat of a legislative measure to curb its wide-ranging collection of Americans' phone records, setting up a showdown with the House of Representatives over domestic surveillance.

A statement from the White House press secretary Jay Carney late on Tuesday evening capped an extraordinary day of near-revolt on Capitol Hill concerning the secret National Security Agency surveillance programes revealed by ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden and published by the Guardian and Washington Post.

The White House urged House members to vote against a measure from Representative Justin Amash, a Michigan Republican, that would stop the NSA siphoning up the telephone records of millions of Americans without suspicion of a crime.

"This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open or deliberative process," said the statement emailed from the White House late on Tuesday in anticipation of a House debate on the Amash measure scheduled for Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/nsa-surveillance-amash-amendment

---

I believe we can refer to this provision as the Amash-Conyers Amendment

H.Amdt.101 to H.R. 2397: Ending authority for the blanket collection of records under the Patriot Act. Bars the NSA and other agencies from using Section 215 of the Patriot Act to collect records, including telephone call records, that pertain to persons who are not subject to an investigation under Section 215.

https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hamdt101

[Tx4obama]

1. The full White House statement below

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
July 23, 2013

Statement by the Press Secretary on the Amash Amendment

In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens. The Administration has taken various proactive steps to advance this debate including the President’s meeting with the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, his public statements on the disclosed programs, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence’s release of its own public statements, ODNI General Counsel Bob Litt’s speech at Brookings, and ODNI’s decision to declassify and disclose publicly that the Administration filed an application with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. We look forward to continuing to discuss these critical issues with the American people and the Congress.

However, we oppose the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our Intelligence Community’s counterterrorism tools. This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process. We urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/23/statement-press-secretary-amash-amendment

[matthews]

3. Wow. Talk about bull shit hypocrisy

"This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process."

[forestpath]

5. +1000

[Amonester]

6. Obviously, there must be some really scary sh!t they're not "informed" of...

And prolly not related to extraterrestrials too.

[NoOneMan]

11. How can we have an informed, open and deliberate process over double plus top secret info?

That just doesn't work.

[matthews]

14. How much of what comes out of his mouth it true? Think about it. How many

times has he bullshitted us and then lays low for a while, then comes back making speeches like nothing ever happened.

I think Mr. Obama is in for a big surprise if he thinks these little talks he plans to give on the economy are going to placate anybody.

Or that anyone but the True Believers will even for for his noise.

[jtuck004]

16. "not the product of an informed, open..." The surveillance or the bill? n/t

[matthews]

18. The farce of a statement from the White House

"This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open or deliberative process,"

[jtuck004]

21. I know, just being sarcastic. Astounding thing to come out of the WH.

Or perhaps not. And that's worse.

[matthews]

24. Things weren't great Obama's first term but now it's like he intentionally trashing

everything the Democratic Party has ever stood for. Everything.

And he can. He's not running again. You just wait until he signs the go-ahead on the Keystone. I don't think even the fanniest of the fan club will have any defense of that one. And it is coming.

[NealK]

35. "I don't think even the fanniest of the fan club will have any defense of that one."

Please don't underestimate their fanaticism, they would defend him if he killed a puppy with a chainsaw. And yes, he'll enthusiastically sign the go-ahead on the Keystone.

[Sunlei]

40. once the permit process is finished, the pipeline is a done deal. permits are 90% done.

It's all the states who let the process continue.

[JDPriestly]

31. The program is what is the blunt approach and not the product of an informed, open or

deliberative process. Obama is talking through his hat on this one.

Isn't he at all in touch with the American people. Was all that visiting little pizza places only for the election. Now it's back to the same old same old authoritarian stuff we got sick of under Bush. This is really, really sad. The power elite stays no matter who we elect to the White House, no matter what color he is, no matter how nice he is. Same old power elite. The Alexanders in their many forms.

[Mojorabbit]

19. +1000 nt

[Bluenorthwest]

8. What a tower of bullshit that statement is.

Even by Beltway standards that is some dissembling verbiage deluxe.

[rpannier]

25. Thanks for Posting the Statement

It's nice to get full input from all the players involved

[chimpymustgo]

37. Bagdad Bob bullshit.

[struggle4progress]

47. Thanks for posting that. Apparently many prefer kneejerking to informed, open, deliberative process

[cantbeserious]

51. The Desecration Of The 4th Amendment Continues

eom

[Red Oak]

2. Oh yeah

Like it was an informed, open, deliberative process that put this monster in place.

[matthews]

4. We hit the post button at the same time. And it was about the

same insane statement.

These people are arrogant fools.

[PSPS]

7. Obummer strikes again. Bush's fourth term continues.

[hueymahl]

9. OMG

They are criticizing the bill for its blunt approach. Really. As if sucking up indiscriminate data relating to every American just because they can and just in case, maybe, it may be useful in the future. Yeah, nothing blunt about that approach.

It is getting harder and harder to not post something that would violate the terms of service of this site.

[Amonester]

12. Don't put anything in the mail! Really.

And don't forget to use encryption software properly b4 everything you post!

[99th_Monkey]

10. POTUS hostility to Amash/ Amendment speaks loudly in favor of it's passage. ~nt

[Amonester]

13. It speaks so loudly that it will certainly not

pass.

All that speak is just for show.

[99th_Monkey]

15. Well, it's pretty obvious that Obama wouldn't support such a bill

since he's already on record arguing strongly in FAVOR of the NSA's 100% saturation surveillance on US citizens.

I don't know why this particular "announcement" should slow down Congressional action, since it's nothing new.

[Amonester]

17. Looks like you don't know a lot of stuff

he looks like knowing about a lot.

And, no. He's not gonna tell you.

[99th_Monkey]

20. I try not to act like a "know-it-all"

and I also try to avoid "talking down" to other peeps on DU.

Glad it shows.

[Amonester]

22. Glad you're not the one getting to read the PDBs

That's all.

[99th_Monkey]

26. I'm glad your glad

We be both glad, so I guess it's all good.

[limpyhobbler]

23. Here is the wording of this provision, I think

Seems to be based on the 4th Amendment requirement for a specific warrant...


http://amendments-rules.house.gov/amendments/AMASH_018_xml2718131717181718.pdf

Amendment 101
Sponsers: Amash (MI), Conyers (MI), Mulvaney (SC), Polis (CO), Massie (KY)
Party: Bi-Partisan
Summary: (Revised) Ends authority for the blanket collection of records under the Patriot Act. Bars the NSA and other agencies from using Section 215 of the Patriot Act to collect records, including telephone call records, that pertain to persons who are not subject to an investigation under Section 215.

Made In Order

http://rules.house.gov/bill/hr-2397

[sabrina 1]

28. They're panicking over the money. So much money going to to 'security corps like Booz Allen

Clapper's former Corporation. That sounds reasonable, though it doesn't go nearly far enough for me. But I guess they are worried that they will have to be careful with the money if even this crumb gets through Congress.

It's always all about money in the end.

Billions wasted on these violations of our 4th Amendment rights.

[limpyhobbler]

32. I didn't even think about that but that must be right.

I bet a lot of money is spent around mass collection and analysis of data. Why else would they need such massive data storage? It's the main thing this part of the government does and it is a cash cow.

Also much of the money goes to private contractors. And most all of it is a complete waste of money and violates everybody's privacy. This little amendment seems so innocent. But in its simplicity it threatens a massive government bureaucracy and slush fund. That could be why they are pushing back saying it is too much of a "blunt approach". They want to make it more complicated, to write in some loopholes for the money.

[Ghost Dog]

43. Thanks for the link. Quote (Wired, March 2012):

... Under construction by contractors with top-secret clearances, the blandly named Utah Data Center is being built for the National Security Agency. A project of immense secrecy, it is the final piece in a complex puzzle assembled over the past decade. Its purpose: to intercept, decipher, analyze, and store vast swaths of the world’s communications as they zap down from satellites and zip through the underground and undersea cables of international, foreign, and domestic networks. The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.” It is, in some measure, the realization of the “total information awareness” program created during the first term of the Bush administration—an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans’ privacy.

But “this is more than just a data center,” says one senior intelligence official who until recently was involved with the program. The mammoth Bluffdale center will have another important and far more secret role that until now has gone unrevealed. It is also critical, he says, for breaking codes. And code-breaking is crucial, because much of the data that the center will handle—financial information, stock transactions, business deals, foreign military and diplomatic secrets, legal documents, confidential personal communications—will be heavily encrypted. According to another top official also involved with the program, the NSA made an enormous breakthrough several years ago in its ability to cryptanalyze, or break, unfathomably complex encryption systems employed by not only governments around the world but also many average computer users in the US. The upshot, according to this official: “Everybody’s a target; everybody with communication is a target.” ...

... In the process—and for the first time since Watergate and the other scandals of the Nixon administration—the NSA has turned its surveillance apparatus on the US and its citizens. It has established listening posts throughout the nation to collect and sift through billions of email messages and phone calls, whether they originate within the country or overseas. It has created a supercomputer of almost unimaginable speed to look for patterns and unscramble codes. Finally, the agency has begun building a place to store all the trillions of words and thoughts and whispers captured in its electronic net. And, of course, it’s all being done in secret. To those on the inside, the old adage that NSA stands for Never Say Anything applies more than ever...

Nothing was new in what Snowden said.

[limpyhobbler]

44. This whole spy center should be dismantled and turned into an alpaca farm.

The size of it is what troubles me the most.

It wouldn't be necessary unless they were doing mass surveillance on the general population. Which of course they should not be doing.

Congress should cut funding for storing data on people who are not being investigated.

[24601]

50. That's an interesting thought. If you have to devise a system that hunts & gathers data, it would

probably cost a lot.

If you system is that companies turn over their calling records and all you have to do is upload the file to a database to be queried as a future point not so much. Most of the cost is IT infrastructure housing data turned over. Compared to building a tailored collection system, identifying target signals, intercepting & retrieving, decrypting, de-multiplexing and then storing it would cost much more.

If information about a call sits in a database and is never queried (as the Administration insists, that is what takes the court order) to determine the identity and connected numbers, the cost per number is exceptionally small because of the economy of effort.

I do recall a former Director of National Intelligence testifying before the HPSCI on communications in Iraq (combatant one to combatant two) that because of telecoms choosing the cheapest path, ran through the US. At this point, the SIGINT collectors (don't recall if it was tactical units with organic SIGINT or NSA) had to drop coverage. The HPSCI Chairman kept asking why they didn't keep collecting since they were fighting them overseas and the DNI kept explaining that they stopped because the law on the books at the time required them to drop coverage.

OK, I'll bite & say that I have no problems of collecting on two people fighting our troops, even when the foreign combatants' communications run through the US and don't see that affecting 4th amendment protections of US persons. Different story in my book if one of them is a US person.

[cantbeserious]

52. Yes - The Oligarchs Are Feeding At The Public Teat And Can't Be Denied As They Fatten Up At Our Expense

eom

[darkangel218]

27. I wish campaign contributions were refundable.

[bemildred]

29. That ought to help get it passed in the house anyway. nt

[JDPriestly]

30. I hope the Amash-Conyers Amendment passes.

This broad, nearly unlimited surveillance is unacceptable. Wyden's speech on this explains why in very eloquent language.

[avaistheone1]

33. Me too.

k&r

[NealK]

36. I hope that it passes too.

But I've been disappointed so many times that I can't help being pessimistic.

[delrem]

34. OMG OMG OMG -- this is ground zero.

[idwiyo]

38. New plan: Keep arming future Osama Bin Ladens over there so we can keep spying on everyone over here!

[dipsydoodle]

39. what does "forcefully urged" mean ?

.

[christx30]

42. "You got a nice little democracy here.

would be a shame if something... happened to it."

[GliderGuider]

41. We all wanted to believe so badly

Our hope blinded us to the truth. He doesn't represent the 99%, and never did.

I've never made a directly critical statement about Obama before, but this is just too heartbreakingly egregious.

[Gore1FL]

45. I read that as the "Amish Amendment"

And was trying to figure out if there were special needs for spying on the low-tech members of our society.

My misreading-based imagination was more awesome than the reality of this article!

[durablend]

46. Oh no worries

They're also being watched I'm sure...

[dipsydoodle]

53. I made the same mistake originally.

[Billy Blades]

48. 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats voted against the amendment

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/amash-amendment-fails-despite-democratic-support/67584/

[totodeinhere]

49. Yup. And Pelosi and Bachmann were on the same side (against it.)

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml