NSA Says Snowden Took Documents From Internal Website: Report...
Source: Reuters
Former security contractor Edward Snowden was able to obtain secret documents revealing a massive U.S. spying effort from the National Security Agency's internal website, U.S. officials said according to a report on Wednesday.
The classified documents leaked by Snowden were posted internally, and Snowden's job allowed him to single-handedly make digital copies without his supervisors' knowledge, government officials told National Public Radio.
They did not tell NPR how Snowden took copied files out of the office, citing an ongoing investigation.
"We have an extremely good idea of exactly what data he got access to and how exactly he got access to it," NSA's chief technology officer, Lonny Anderson, told NPR...
Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-usa-security-snowden-idUSBRE98H0J220130918
Question:
[font size = "4" color = "darkred"]Why is Snowden being publicly vilified and not the person(s) responsible for the fact that, "Snowden's job allowed him to single-handedly make digital copies without his supervisors' knowledge..."???!!![/font]
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Maybe because Snowden took the files, and maybe the person who put them on line wasn't thief.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)Is that what you're saying?
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)A thief of our tax dollars.
Lonr
(103 posts)Why is Snowden being vilified for letting the world know how badly our human rights are being violated by the NSA on a daily basis?
think_critically
(118 posts)If he's so concerned about human rights then why would he go to Russia for asylum. He's a damn hypocrite and a fraud. People should stop celebrating him.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...NSA's corruption.
Do you think he traded a plush job in Hawaii for a life in Russia because of selfish reasons?
I do celebrate him for his courage and willingness to put his life on the line for his principles. He's an American hero of the first order.
think_critically
(118 posts)What principles? You cannot stand on principles and seek refuge in a country that goes against them. There is no getting around that. Somebody who is willing to put his life on the line and risk everything would not be afraid to go to jail for what they did. If he did that then he might be a hero. Also, why release documents that don't have anything to do with domestic spying. He has almost ruined our relationship with a lot of countries because of what he did. What good did that do. Brazil is now moving to isolate it's internet access now and other countries may follow suit. That will mark the end of the internet as we know it and you can thank Mr. Snowden for that.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...you'd see that you've vindicated Snowden with your own words, "You cannot stand on principles and seek refuge in a country that goes against them. There is no getting around that."
Our government (in backing the NSA) went against its own principles, and there was no refuge for Snowden here.
Also -- it wasn't Snowden who damaged our foreign relations by exposing corruption ...it was the corruption itself.
2banon
(7,321 posts)I think that is fairly clear as events unfolded.
It seemed clear to me that Snowden didn't purposely seek asylum in Russia.
His intentions were to go to South America, for asylum. He ended up stranded at the airport in Russia on route but his itinerary and intended destination was thwarted vis a vis U.S. interventions.
If you have factual information/evidence contradicting I'd be interested in reading that.
As far as "leaking documents" .. what documents did he release that have no bearing on citizen surveillance?
I haven't read the article yet, will do so later tonight if the details of "leaked" information is revealed in the article, that will be interesting, but on face value, I don't take any statement/comment from the NSA as credible enough to truthfully give me the time of day, much less on this matter.
They traffic in lies and deceit as a matter of profession. Why would ANYONE take (at face value) anything any official from that department have to say on any subject, ever.?
As for "not afraid of going to jail" response is simply laughable.
Seriously.
It is possible that the whole affair is a huge charade and that Snowden is actually a double agent, and Russia (and the rest of the world) is being played.
Wouldn't be the first time.
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)Nobody ever admitted seeing him on that plane, though some official car apparently collected somebody from the plane when it landed in Russia, and nobody demonstrably saw him at the airport until he gave an officially-arranged press conference three weeks later
Those facts might suggest a narrative other than "He somehow accidentally got stranded at the Russian airport"
2banon
(7,321 posts)This statement :
"He somehow accidentally got stranded at the Russian airport" The word accidentally is no where in my post.
Never the less, I take your point.
I am not aware of any time spent in the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong. My understanding is that he was located in a hotel prior to his departure.
Although it wouldn't surprise me that the Russian Embassy offered him safe harbor given that the CIA was located "down the block" from the hotel he was staying at the time of his outing himself, according to his comments in that conversation.
I missed the information he was staying at the Russian Embassy. Was it widely reported or is it speculation?
2banon
(7,321 posts)Listening to "It's Your Call" on KAWL an hour ago, William M. Arkin was being interviewed to discuss this subject which is (in part) the subject of his new book [link:American Coup: How a Terrified Government Is Destroying the Constitution|American Coup: How a Terrified Government Is Destroying the Constitution .
In this interview, Arkin mentioned the French Press reporting that Snowden was at the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong, suggesting he could have flown directly to South America directly from Hawaii, and also mentioned that Cuba had denied him passage, (which would explain to me why he wasn't able to fly directly to S.A.)
I have not verified any of this information, so this needs to be checked.
To be clear, the topic was not about Snowden per se., but about the broader more IMPORTANT topic of the National Security State apparatus and the erosion of U.S. Constitutional Rights, which is really at the heart of the matter.
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)Here's the Moscow Times:
Did Kremlin Arrange Snowden's Trip to Russia?
28 August 2013
By James Brooke
June 21 was ... a hot day for Edward Snowden ... U.S. federal prosecutors officially brought charges against Snowden for unauthorized communication of classified and national defense information ... On that day in Hong Kong, Snowden received a one-way ticket to Moscow on Aeroflot, Russia's state-controlled flag carrier. As Kommersant reported Monday, citing Russian sources, Snowden also celebrated his 30th birthday in the safety of .. the Russian consulate ... For two days, Snowden stayed at the 17-room Russian consulate before being whisked away by car in the early morning hours June 23 for the 10-hour Aeroflot flight to Moscow ...
2banon
(7,321 posts)(Just to get this bit out of the way right now) and the Moscow Times is a "pro-western" paper .. you know, like FOX news vs Pacifica Radio.. right then.
That aside, in Brooke's own reporting, he is not able to factually state one way or the other the question of Snowden's intent wrt to Russia prior to his arrival there.
One of many question for me, would be why not just defect directly and quietly..(this is the usual procedure I think) Why put your life on the line by exposing oneself to being assassinated/imprisoned by agents for the West?
It's possible that Snowden was always an agent, maybe even a double agent. The whole affair may just be a huge charade, with the U.S. pulling the strings playing Putin.
We're not likely to find out anytime soon, one way or the other.
So to me, I think we should focus on what Snowden revealed about the Surveillance State apparatus against our citizens.. and take political action with regard to that very serious matter.
Deceit and theft against the American Citizens is the crime that's being ignored.
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)WikiLeaks и спецслужбы провели в Москве операцию "Сноуден"
23 июня 2013, 20:06
... По мнению экспертов, перелет Сноудена в Москву был согласован с российскими властями и спецслужбами, и, несмотря на то что его разоблачения не являются сенсацией для специалистов, представители ГРУ и ФСБ обязательно встретятся и побеседуют с ним ...
WikiLeaks and special services conducted an operation in Moscow, "Snowden"
June 23, 2013, 20:06
... According to experts, Snowden's flight to Moscow was approved by the Russian authorities and intelligence agencies, and despite the fact that his revelations are no sensation for professionals, representatives of the GRU and the FSB are certain to meet and talk with him ...
http://izvestia.ru/news/552478
christx30
(6,241 posts)He has almost ruined our relationship with a lot of countries because of what he did.
If a man cheats on his wife, and her friend finds out and tells her, who's the asshole that ruined the relationship? The cheater? Or the friend?
2banon
(7,321 posts)with regard to our intelligence operations in general, and the National Security State in particular?
We have a long and storied history of spying on everyone, allies and foes alike going back to the Cold War years, even before the National Security Act of 1947 was enacted and then firmly institutionalized.
This isn't news to anyone, with the exception of a lot of American citizens, apparently. Ordinary citizens in other countries might have been surprised to some extent, but certainly not their dear leaders.
It would be astonishing to me if important allies were really blind sided by the revelations, and had not already in place their own security measures to prevent their own secrets from being eavesdropped on by the U.S. intelligence community and other actors.
My concern is that American citizens do not seem to understand the implications and potential impact on their own personal lives...
It's rather tragic, actually.
christx30
(6,241 posts)to anyone. Just like the warrantless wiretapping after 9/11. I assumed it was going on. I'm not talking about ground breaking revelations here. I'm talking about getting people pissed off about this issue and demanding answers. Maybe shaming a few congress critters into trying to get it stopped. Or get some of them fired if they refuse to do it.
2banon
(7,321 posts)as why we should care if some congress critters got pissed off, and shamed into repealing the Patriot Act and all of the laws that were spawned from which created the automatic green light for the NSA and every other alpha bet soup intel/security depts to surveille with out a warrant on any and every citizen in this country.
I'm not getting why you'd be upset about that, don't mean to be dense..
christx30
(6,241 posts)violated on a daily basis just because the powers that be want to do it? Why does it matter that our leaders don't have the guts to stand up and say that it's a bad thing because they don't want to be painted as having a pre-9/11 mindset? Because it's a terrible thing that the warrant-less wiretapping is going on. Because while they might be going after Mohammed Atta's buddies, there is a risk, and from reports about NSA analysts doing freaky surveillance crap against their own husband, wives, girlfriends. Because it's not too much of a stretch in thought that someone unscrupulous might get damaging information about one or more congress critters and blackmail them for any number or reasons. It's about finding something that's stupid and wrong, and fighting against it.
So, yes. I think they need to be shamed into repealing the Patriot Act. They aren't going to do it because that would imply they give a shit.
2banon
(7,321 posts)on all points... thanks for the clarification, I must have misread/misunderstood your previous response to mine. 
on edit: I see my mistake, you were responding to "think critically" not me..
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)Our "leaders" aren't leaders at all. They get their marching orders from the multinational corporate world via bribery, coercion, and blackmail. DC is corrupt from top to bottom, and those responsible have utter contempt for our constitution.
Up until now, this "post 9/11 world" crap has been an effective smokescreen behind which all manner of assault on our constitution was painted as "patriotic." ...and the corporate echo chamber (the MSM) has constantly resurrected the specter of Jihadist boogie men in order to justify the abuse and dismantling of our constitutionally guaranteed rights as American citizens.
Fortunately, the public is wising up; and I don't see this "national security" dog hunting for much longer. It may take longer than we wish, but I see a day when any contender for state or federal office will have to run on a platform which would repeal the Patriot Act (abolishing all its extant machinations) in order to have a realistic shot at being elected.
2banon
(7,321 posts)That's exactly how I see it..
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)had provided information about websites in China that NSA had hacked into. The timing strongly suggests that the aim was to affect the summit, which it did
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)and some of this was months ago now. But the stories did appear there, sometimes with an indication that the interviews on which they were based had occurred weeks before publication
... May 20: Edward Snowden, 29, arrives in Hong Kong, just after taking leave from his National Security Agency contracting firm Booz Allen Hamilton ...
Edward Snowden timeline of events
By ASSOCIATED PRESS | 8/1/13 11:29 AM EDT
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/edward-snowden-timeline-of-events-95057.html
... Revelations of U.S. government surveillance programs had threatened to complicate the first-time summit between the two. Obama and his aides grappled with questions about the surveillance as the president headed to Rancho Mirage for the summit, where he planned to raise U.S. complaints about Chinese spying ...
By Lesley Clark
McClatchy Washington Bureau
Spying hangs over U.S.-China summit
Posted on Friday, June 7, 2013
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/07/193355/spying-hangs-over-us-china-summit.html
... Mr. Xi said Friday that his country is also a victim of cyber attacks ...
Obama and Xi conclude summit discussions
Mark Knoller
CBS News
June 8, 2013, 9:19 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588341/obama-and-xi-conclude-summit-discussions/
... June 12: The South China Morning Post in Hong Kong says it interviewed Snowden at a secret location ...
Edward Snowden timeline of events
By ASSOCIATED PRESS | 8/1/13 11:29 AM EDT
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/edward-snowden-timeline-of-events-95057.html
... Among some 61,000 reported targets of the National Security Agency, Snowden said, are hundreds of computers in China ... The Morning Post said it had seen documents provided by Snowden but was unable to verify their authenticity ...
NSA hacks China, leaker Snowden claims
By Jethro Mullen and Chelsea J. Carter, CNN
updated 5:32 AM EDT, Thu June 13, 2013
... June 23: Snowden leaves Hong Kong on an Aeroflot flight to Moscow ...
Edward Snowden timeline of events
By ASSOCIATED PRESS | 8/1/13 11:29 AM EDT
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/edward-snowden-timeline-of-events-95057.html
Edward Snowden, the former U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) contractor who has been leaking information on U.S. intelligence operations, has revealed to the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post that the NSA has run extensive operations in recent years against China's Tsinghua University and mobile phone companies ...
Snowden: US Spies On China’s Universities and Mobile Firms
By Zachary Keck
June 23, 2013
HONG KONG (AP) — A former National Security Agency contractor says that U.S. hacking targets in China included the nation's mobile-phone companies and two universities hosting extensive Internet traffic hubs in the latest allegations as Washington pushes Hong Kong to extradite the ex-contractor ...
June 23, 2013 3:31 AM
Snowden says US targets included China cell phones
http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-says-us-targets-included-china-cell-phones-073119007.html
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)
Rockyj
(538 posts)
TxGrandpa
(124 posts)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)service he rendered to our democracy.
The people who defend the NSA have not thought through what the surveillance means for our country. In the late 1970s when the Supreme Court ruled that police may collect metadata, they were deciding a specific case concerning the collection of evidence in the narrow facts of a legitimate investigation of a crime that had occurred. That is not what the NSA surveillance is about. Not at all.
You have a First Amendment right to freedom of association. That means that Congress can pass no law that permits anyone in government to interfere with your free association with anyone in the world. The First Amendment arguably does not apply to foreign nationals outside the US. But it most definitely applies to all communications of Americans. It is not a freedom that is limited geographically to "within the United States," not in my reading of the plain text. It prohibits the government from limiting the association of Americans, period. That is my opinion. If the Congress has enabled the NSA to collect all the metadata on your communications, how can you or anyone else associate with others or ultimately organize freely?
You have a First Amendment right of freedom of religion. That means that the government cannot pass a law that authorizes any employee to limit your right to freedom of religion at all. But if the NSA can collect your metadata without any cause at all, much less probable cause, how can you really be free in your religious search, expression and association?
You have a First Amendment right of freedom of the press. That means that the government cannot pass or impose any law that abridges (limits) your right to read any news or obtain any information from the media that the media can provide. How can you enjoy the freedom of the press if the NSA is spying on reporters to discover their sources?
And in that context, think of Thomas Paine. He published the documents that stirred the hearts of the patriots in our American Revolution. The NSA and our government would surely have threatened him as they threaten Edward Snowden. We are supposed to be a country that encourages freedom of information and free dissent. A criminal, including terrorists, is defined as one who has committed a crime. How can a journalist be a criminal under the First Amendment? So why should journalists be under investigation.
Our government is far too dependent on its secrecy laws for keeping the peace and establishing what it considers to be "security" in the country. Think about what happened with the Occupy movement. Were they a threat to the security of the country? I don't think so. A messy inconvenience at most in all places in which they were nonviolent. (And that was most everywhere.)
The NSA and our military are a small elite in the country. They are not elected. They barely even answer to our elected officials. They have willingly and conspicuously lied to our Congress. We should be finding out much more about what is going on in their hidden, undemocratic, possibly very corrupt halls. The existence of such a "special" protected cabal within our otherwise democratically elected government is a huge threat. Snowden and his revelations are no threat at all compared to the threat of this very powerful, very secretive clique in our government. Which, by the way, has taken access to all kind of information that could be used to intimidate or blackmail at the NSA's whim.
The NSA spying is incompatible with even a shadow of a democracy. It makes a mockery of everything that previous generations of Americans fought and died for. It is in my opinion unconstitutional.
There was a time when slavery was considered to be lawful, to comply with the Constitution. The NSA spying enslaves our communications, and will destroy what we have left of democracy. I know this sounds extreme, hair-on-fire they say. But think about it. If you do, you will agree with me.
Of course those under 65 probably did not take a good government course and probably never really learned much about the US Constitution. The Nixon administration and the right wing of the US got so scared after the Viet Nam demonstrations that the serious study of government was all but removed from high school curricula.
To whom did the files that Edward Snowden allegedly "stole" really belong? To that elite clique in the NSA who were never elected and who live and "serve" through series of weak administrations and snub their noses at money-grubbing members of Congress, waiting until they get the right court in order to expand NSA power?
No. The files that Edward Snowden "stole" belong to you and me and every other American.
So, no. I don't see Edward Snowden as the person who violated an enforceable law here. He was acting in the greatest American tradition which places limits on unrestrained, out-of-control authority in a nonviolent way.
I don't think of Edward Snowden as a hero. I think of him as having done the job that others in the NSA should have been doing on behalf of his employers, the American people.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Well done, and thanks for taking the time to enumerate so eloquently what is at the very heart of the matter here.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)
...And for those who don't think that violating our constitution isn't such a big deal --
[font color="darkred"size="4"]the constitution is the law![/font]
Nihil
(13,508 posts)
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Thank you for writing this excellent post.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...you go up against entrenched corruption -- you are made an example of (it discourages further dissent within the ranks)
Link Speed
(650 posts)The next person will give this some long, hard thought.
PSPS
(13,618 posts)Worshiper/Apologist Hit Parade:
1. This is nothing new
2. I have nothing to hide
3. What are you, a freeper?
4. But Obama is better than Christie/Romney/Bush/Hitler
5. Greenwald/Flaherty/Gillum/Apuzzo/Braun is a hack
6. We have red light cameras, so this is no big deal
7. Corporations have my data anyway
8. At least Obama is trying
9. This is just the media trying to take Obama down
10. It's a misunderstanding/you are confused
11. You're a racist
12. Nobody cares about this anyway / "unfounded fears"
13. I don't like Snowden, therefore we must disregard all of this
14. Other countries do it
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)PSPS
(13,618 posts)I don't like living in a Stasi country.
TriplD
(176 posts)...if they hadn't privatized this operation.
The people at Booz Allen Hamilton have probably been in CYA mode since the leaks began. I doubt that they are "partnering" in good faith with their NSA investigators.
htuttle
(23,738 posts)Back in another lifetime last century, and under a different pseudonym, I wrote an article for a proto-eZine about the just-leaked copy of the NSA Employee Handbook. I found a copy or two of it still online, and while I cringe at some of the writing now, it's amazing to see how much tighter security must have been during at pre-privatized NSA.
It's here, on some sort of security-centric site:
Secret Dress Codes of the NSA
http://www.tscm.com/NSATSSITKDressCode.html
Here's a copy of the NSA Employee Handbook, circa 1995 or so:
http://www.tscm.com/NSAsecmanual1.html
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)
PuffedMica
(1,061 posts)The NSA has it set up were every access to every piece of information has an unalterable log file associated with it.
So the I. T. guy goes in and makes backup copies of the hard disks and steals one of the backup copies, which were not logged because none of the information was accessed. Then he goes home and unpacks the backup on his laptop without the log files being updated (because they are on another computer at the main office).
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)the spies are good at spying on others but not so good spying on each other.i guess that`s what ya get when the spies turn spying over to a for big profit private corporation.
so snowden is stuck in russia for who knows how long. greenwald is the celebrity the year in brazil and writing a book.
the spies are still spying..so what has really changed?
2banon
(7,321 posts)or the whole thing is a charade. An elaborate charade albeit, but it wouldn't be the first time...... which ever the case it'll be interesting, i think.
MADem
(135,425 posts)guessing.
2banon
(7,321 posts)just curious..
MADem
(135,425 posts)The topic here is Snowden. He signed non-disclosure agreements and violated them, he ignored his own IG, the No Fear Act, and other methodologies to complain about things that bothered him, he ripped off his employer(s)--we are learning he stole from others in addition to BAH--and he ran to Russia.
I do wonder if he was a double agent, not a "whistleblower." The help he got in Hong Kong from the Russians--to include housing--seems a bit "off" to me. He may have tried to play this as whistleblowing but USA figured out he had a deal with the Russians, so they forced them to keep him. No sunny VZ beaches for Ed!
Hope it was worth it...! Wonder if he's mastered the intricacies of Russkie grammar yet--I took a few lessons in that language, it's rather brutal. The easiest part is the alphabet!
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)What if you're wrong, and Snowden did act strictly on principle?
MADem
(135,425 posts)There's a phrase for people like "Libertarian Eddie"--he's "too clever by half."
He'll have a lifetime to regret his intemperate conduct.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...being exposed?
MADem
(135,425 posts)that Snowden told his pal Vladimir first.
And we know he did that.
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)For Years[/font]
NSA Director Keith Alexander, who admitted in court documents kept classified since 2009 that the agency had illegally surveilled thousands of phone numbers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/09/10/nsa-secretly-admitted-illegally-tracking-thousands-of-alert-list-phone-numbers-for-years/
I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad that this came out in the open.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Frankly, surveilling phone numbers is what the phone company does, so they know what to charge you. And look when they STOPPED doing it (that would be the year Obama took office)--it's not like they were doing it three weeks ago:
I'm not saying for a second that this isn't "an issue," and that there should not be more transparency with regard to some aspects of it, and that there shouldn't be considerably more judicial oversight over the whole process, but my hair is just not on fire.
Snowden had the No Fear Act and a load of avenues available to him if he truly cared about "the American people" and their privacy. None of his Ars Technica writings suggested that he gave a crap about anyone in that way--that would have been quite the epiphany. Instead, he job hopped to get "better stuff" and then took off to the Russian consulate in Hong Kong, after baiting a little mousetrap for Greenwald to muddy the waters.
I think he thought he'd be able to hang out in Iceland (didn't do the Wikipedia search on the change in government, I guess) or South America, playing the international bad boy. I don't think he counted on having to learn Russian and adjust to that society. If he doesn't like surveillance in the USA, he's going to HATE IT in Russia.
I think he sold the info he snatched to the highest bidder. I hope his asking price was high enough to support him in style in Russia--it's expensive there since the USSR fell. No more subsidies, no more social safety nets....it's like a society run by .... Republicans!
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...it just doesn't make sense to me that he would give up his life in Hawaii, his 6 figure salary job, his ballerina fiancé et al. for less than altruistic reasons. Call me gullible, but I actually believe the guy in this interview (please watch this if you haven't seen it already)...
MADem
(135,425 posts)is because he was told by the BAH personnel shop that there was a "problem" with his clearance. He talked his way past it, but he knew the clock was ticking. When a problem comes up, they start (eventually) at ground zero and go through everything all over again.
I believe they would have learned that he lied mightily about his educational qualifications, and he would have been fired and that clearance stripped from him. He would have been heavily investigated, too, and if he had any untoward contacts, he might have been charged with espionage.
I also believe that he wasn't planning on bolting so quickly. He'd grabbed junk from Hewlett Packard when he worked for them in Japan, and he had job hopped over to Booz to get stuff from their servers. I think he would have kept grabbing stuff --- and maybe even giving it away (and who knows, maybe, when he went to Thailand and Hong Kong on previous vacations, they weren't actually "vacations" but meetings/handoffs....we aren't doing the HUMINT like we used to and it's hurting us, IMO). Maybe he had a long-range plan, but he was forced to jump before he was ready.
It makes no sense that he left when he did EXCEPT for the fact that he was told that there was a problem with his clearance. He barely scratched the surface at BAH. But with the clearance problem...THEN it makes sense.
Of course, who knows what his motives are? He could be simply having medical issues--he claimed he had adult onset epilepsy, and that can happen as a consequence of drug use (not necessarily the case with him, but it's a theory). When that condition happens, too, regardless of cause (blow to the head can do it too) it can result in major personality changes, and that could be a cause for his conduct, perhaps. I read recently about a guy who was not terribly generous, but who had a stroke and started giving away his fortune to the great consternation of his family....
I just don't buy "World Altruism" as a motive--particularly when I learned he ran to the Russian consulate and was sheltered there while in Hong Kong.
For a guy who doesn't want to live in a surveillance world, he sure picked one helluva surveillance state to hide out in, and the fact that the Russians were so ready to chum up with him makes me believe they turned him. In fact, I think they had him well cooked and flipped before he left Hawaii. Maybe even while he was working in Japan...or maybe even in Europe. Who knows--maybe the Russians have infiltrated our security clearance process, and they know we're such fuckups that they can use that information to blackmail people who are making six figures with shit to hide....?
Sometimes, the simplest explanations are the most valid....
That said, I -- like everyone else here--"KNOW" absolutely nothing. I have no special insight, no "buddies" in the business, or anything of that nature. I just have a strong feeling that this guy is a bullshitter, that he's not what he seems to be, and that he is--to quote one of Ricky Gervais' catch-phrases--'havin' a laugh' at our expense. I think, in time, it will all come out, too. We'll just have to wait-n-see!
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)Util and unless facts prove otherwise, I'm going with his original story. All the dots seem to me to line up simply to backup Snowden's narrative.
Since all the hubbub, allot of pejorative reports have come out in the corporate owned MSM -- but I certainly don't trust them (the MSM) to be honest brokers of truth, especially during a controversy like this. They've played fast and loose with the so called "facts" far too often to be relied upon for professional objectivity.
So, as you said, we'll just have to wait and see.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If I'm wrong I'm not going to berate myself over it, either--it's just a very strong feeling I have.
Something just seems "off" to me with that guy (and I have experience reading people over the years), but as always, time will tell!
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)...we're better off having corruption in high places exposed to the sunlight (which is the best disinfectant).
ehcross
(166 posts)Edward Snowden has made the USA incapable of understanding that the NSA-PRISM is their only tool available to confront another 9/11.
The NSA has developed a unique capability to monitor possible threats to U.S. National Security, thus providing its citizens advance warning to allow for due measures to be implemented by Government.
The scheme is operational and specifically targets threats aimed at the USA.
2banon
(7,321 posts)But in my view, that's simply fantasy.
The NSA doesn't exist to protect American Citizens, as they exist to protect their own existence essentially. Ruling elite, Wall Street, MIC, Big Business. not you or me or our families. I don't think The 9/11 meme is as useful to control the masses as it use to be, but who knows..
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Well that was imaginative.
2banon
(7,321 posts)will easily lead most to the same conclusion, milage may vary...
Indi Guy
(3,992 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
- K&R
yurbud
(39,405 posts)held accountable, and to keep the contracts flowing, so the company has more money to give the politician.
Snowden is just one guy who doesn't have deep pockets.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)DU blames Obama.
