New Poll: Only One-Third of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding, or Delaying Obamacare

[TomCADem]

Source: Forbes

Polls consistently show that Americans aren’t happy with Obamacare. They think the law will make health care more expensive, and decrease its quality. But a new survey of 1,976 registered voters finds that only 33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded. 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, and 12 percent believe that the law should be expanded. The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.

The new poll was conducted by the Morning Consult, a healthcare media company founded by Michael Ramlet. Ramlet, in evaluating the results of his survey, finds that voters are “unmoved by three months of the defund argument,” and that a majority would “blame congressional Republicans a lot for a government shutdown.”

Voters would blame “Republicans in Congress if the current budget dispute leads to a government shutdown starting October 1.” 51 percent would blame them “a lot,” 21 percent “some,” and 17 percent “a little.” Only 12 percent would assign no blame to Republicans. But voters would also blame President Obama for a shutdown, albeit by slimmer margins: 41 percent “a lot,” 15 percent “some,” and 18 percent “a little.” Fomr Congressional Democrats, the numbers were 36 percent “a lot,” 24 percent “some,” and 23 percent “a little.”

Voters believe, by a margin of 66-33, that the 2012 election “represented a referendum on moving forward with implementation of the 2010 health care law.” 24 percent strongly agreed with that sentence; 42 percent somewhat did; 17 percent somewhat disagreed; and 16 percent strongly disagreed.

Read more: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/30/new-poll-only-one-third-of-americans-support-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/

---

I think the most surprising aspect of this story is that it appears on Forbes, which has been spewing anti-ACA bullshit from the get-go.

[Iliyah]

1. Uh Huh, don't trust them

BUT, the tend is moving towards a positive. Why in the eff would congresscritters who claim to love GAWD do so much harm? Let the program go forth, and these same gawd loving folks have already put a stop signal, mess it up label on it. Assholes.

[Skip Intro]

2. But only 26% want it implemented as is.

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2013, 01:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Only 38% support it as is or expanded.

A majority want it stopped or changed.

I hate to be a fly in the ointment but that's what the results say.

[busterbrown]

4. 33% say it should be repealed/defunded....

29% think it should be changed or improved.. Where did you read " stopped" in that number..

I don’t get your numbers..

[Skip Intro]

6. 62% want it either changed or repealed/defunded (stopped).

I did make an error. Only 38% want it implemented as is or expanded.

Those numbers are good news for those who oppose the ACA as is, because the majority oppose the ACA as is, according to this poll.

Sorry for the mistake.

[cosmicone]

9. You're lumping together "changed" and "repealed" numbers

and they are from two different poles.

Those who want it changed want it changed for the better i.e. not repealed.

[Skip Intro]

11. No, that's not correct.

They are from the same poll.

Those who want it changed, according to this poll, do not want it expanded, as that was an option that garnered its own support of 12%.

Those who support it or want it expanded is 38% according to this poll. It's right there in black and white.

[cosmicone]

12. I typed "poles" as in polar opposites

not implying two different "polls."

33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded << one pole


29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” (i.e. don't end it, mend it to function better) plus
26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, (i.e. don't change it let's see how it works) plus
12 percent believe that the law should be expanded.

29 + 26 + 12 = 67% << second pole

[busterbrown]

14. Christ ,I thought I was going nuts.

Is he just screwing with us?

[Skip Intro]

15. I don't think so.

I don't see the 29% who want the law changed (improved - which could mean any number of things shy of either extreme) as supporters. They don't want to let the law take effect and instead want to change it. That is the wording. That doesn't sound like support to me.

If that 29% doesn't support the law, and the 33% who want it stopped doesn't support the law, how is it wrong to say 62% oppose the law as it is?

[cosmicone]

18. Where does it say that they don't want the law to take effect?

You are reading things that are not there.

[busterbrown]

10. Huh?

Polls consistently show that Americans aren’t happy with Obamacare. They think the law will make health care more expensive, and decrease its quality. But a new survey of 1,976 registered voters finds that only 33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded. 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, and 12 percent believe that the law should be expanded. The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.


“Only 33% want it to be repealed, delayed, or defunded” Where are you getting 38%?

“29% believe that Congress should make changes to improve law.

“12% believe the law should be expanded”

How is this good news for Republicans”?

[Skip Intro]

13. Maybe I'm suddenly incapable of adding, so explain this to me:

If only 12 per cent want it expanded then the others who want it changed. 29%, don't like it the way it is also don't want it expanded. Is that not what the numbers say? Would you call those people supporters of the law? How? They had the option to selected "expand it," or to let it go into effect as is, but didn't, and instead chose "change it."

If they don't want it the way it is and also don't want to expand it, then clearly they have some fundamental problem with the law, and could hardly be called supporters. Am I taking a leap there?

If that 29% doesn't support it as-is, and another 33% want it stopped altogether, doesn't that add up to 62% opposing the law as it is?

One could assume the 12% who want it expanded support the law, as they want to expand it.

I don't see a ringing endorsement of the ACA in this poll, despite spin to the contrary.

Show me where I'm wrong.

[busterbrown]

16. That 29% your talking is in my mind supporting the law.

Correct..They don’t support law as it is...They want it stronger so that it is more effective. They don’t want it repealed. Do you not see that?

[Skip Intro]

17. But you make great assumptions there.

It doesn't say they want it stronger or more effective. Maybe they want it curtailed or stripped down? We don't know. What we do know is that they passed on saying let it go into effect as is, and they passed on saying expand it, and instead chose change it. We don't know what "change it" means, but I glean from their lack of saying let it go as is or expand it that they aren't huge fans of it. I don't think it logical to count them as supporters, even if they don't want it defunded or repealed. They clearly don't want it to go into effect as-is. I don't call that support.

Of course, I certainly could be wrong.

[busterbrown]

19. The poll stated they wanted it stronger..

When someone asks you to make their drink stronger it means not to reduce the amount of alcohol which the drink is based on, but add some more to it.

How do you make a law stronger by curtailing it or stripping it down.. Curtailing and stripping have nothing to do with the adjective stronger.. Look it up...”With Great Force”

Please!!

[Cha]

20. Thanks!

[Skip Intro]

29. No, it doesn't. Where do you see the word "stronger?"

It isn't there in the OP. It isn't in the Forbes article.

What is in the OP and the article are the words, "changed to improve," not "make stronger." Make stronger would fall under the expanded option.

You're claiming that the OP/article/poll say something they just don't say.

Sorry.

[TheEuclideanOne]

30. How can you be interpretting it in such an opposite manner?

Understanding the results of this poll could not be simpler. You can not be simply misunderstanding it, but trying to act as though it supports the way that you feel. That is the problem with facts. You can argue that you do not like them, but it does not change their value.

Let me give you an example that might clarify things for you. Approximately 100% of the people who read the poll and commented on it in this thread are trying to figure out how to explain to you that there is no conceivable way for you to logically come to your conclusion. You may, in turn, argue that this means 100% of the people agree wholeheartedly with your interpretation. You can sky write it, create a video about it, do an interpretive dance showing how 100% of people agree with you. At the end of the day, 100% of the people who have read your interpretation of the poll still conclude the opposite of what you do.

[geek tragedy]

33. Skip also thought the IRS was being used to silence Obama's critics, and he wanted answers

on Benghazi.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2958442

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023418909#post5

Oh, and he thought Michelle Obama's lack of patriotism was a problem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4749919&mesg_id=4752284

and of course Jeremiah Wright:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071884

Just so you know where Skip is coming from.

[TheEuclideanOne]

35. I wondering how people come to so easily believe things that are so easily disproven.

Do Republicans not have access to google?

[geek tragedy]

36. Epistemic closure. The more they see that their beliefs are factually false, the more

they dig in and maintain an emotional investment in them.

Ol' Skip really gets pissed at people who ridicule the fake IRS scandal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022942271#post7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022839962#post11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2839312

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2839353

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2839524

[TheEuclideanOne]

37. It really is amazing.

I only looked at the first of your links because I have seen the same arguments and refusal to believe facts so many times. If you boil it down to simplest terms, if somebody can interpret the word "expand" to mean the exact opposite. They are not being intellectually honest. Skip clearly knows what it means and if he pretends he doesn't, he is simply behaving like the 5 year old that puts his fingers in his ears and say "LA-LA-LA-LA" very loudly to avoid hearing something he doesn't like.

[Skip Intro]

42. Personal attacks in place of substance.

Typical schoolyard bully tactic.

Ignore the subject at hand, and try to attack the character of the person you disagree with.

Sad and way more transparent than you think.

Btw, how do you get "pissed" from my posts you link to? There's no anger there. Just somebody trying to make sense of reality rather than pretend it isn't there.

Why do people who think for themselves piss you off so much?

[Skip Intro]

41. How is any of that relevant to what the OP's poll numbers show? n/t

[Skip Intro]

40. I think it is a vague poll response to want "improvement."

That may be by design.

"Improve" could have various meanings. My initial impression, which I still hold, is that those who voted "improve" do not like the law the way it is. They see something wrong with it. Now what that is is up for debate, and I wish the poll had been more specific. But those who chose "improve" passed over "keep as is" and "expand." They don't want it killed, but they don't support it the way it is. That seems glaring to me.

However, I can see how others could have a different take on it. I think my take is more logical, given the context of polling in support of the ACA recently - Real Clear Politics polling average on the subject is 52-38 opposing. That is based on six polls taken this month, all showing double digit disapproval of the ACA.

I'm not arguing for or against the law, only what the poll results from in the OP show. I don't think they show what many want them to.

[TheEuclideanOne]

52. So, you are suggesting that unless somebody says it is the perfect bill, they want to kill it.

If you want to expand or improve on something, you don't want to kill it. You can not expand on something that you suggest should be killed, otherwise there is nothing to expand on. You are reaching so hard to define terms so that they make your argument that everybody hates it. The poll does not need to be any more specific, you need to stop redefining obvious terms to somehow fit your own narrative.

[Skip Intro]

53. I haven't said any such thing. Read my post again.

I think those who want to expand it support it as is as well. I count them as supporters. They are 12% in this poll. The 29% who want Congress to "change" it are the ones I don't count as supporters.

I think it is likely that those who skipped "enact as-is" and "expand" and instead voted that "Congress should change it" probably have a fundamental problem with it as it is. Doesn't seem like much of a leap to me.

If that is the case, then I think it a little insincere to put them in the "support" category. The "change it" respondents, not the "expand it" respondents.

The RCP roundup of polls on this backs up my assessment of the poll liked to in the OP. The CBS poll from Monday shows exactly 38% support for the ACA. 57% oppose.

You really need to read my post again, because I have not said what you continue to reply as if I have.

[TekGryphon]

61. No, many of us have basic reading comprehension skills.

And those of us who do are slapping our heads in frustration over how deliberately obtuse people like you are being.

The poll VERY CLEARLY had TWO options for "change". One was to "change and enhance" and the other was to simply "change" it.

How in the hell, given that, are you and your fellow fanatics arguing that the people who selected "change" are somehow supportive of the ACA and want to enhance it. If they felt that way, they would have selected the option that clearly stated that was their choice.

Get your head out of the sand. We need to change people's hearts and minds over the ACA. Fanatics covering the eyes and ears and screaming "EVERYTHING IS FINE!" are not a part of the solution - they're part of the problem.

[busterbrown]

49. Usually when someone wants to “Improve Something” It means enhance..

Most would say make stronger.. Give it up already!! You’re becoming a bit tedious..

[Skip Intro]

54. I'm sorry my not sharing your exact opinion bothers you so much.

The respondents actually said “Congress should make changes to improve the law.” Instead of passing it as is, they skipped over that option, and the one to expand it, to say, instead, that Congress should change it.

I'm ok that you don't agree with me, but it seems pretty clear to me that if 29% want Congress to change it rather than pass it like it is, they're not really supporters. Again, the RCP round of polls on support for the ACA bear out my take on this one.

I'm sorry my analysis bothers you, but that's what the numbers say, imho.

[busterbrown]

56. “29% wnat congress to make changes to improve the law"

What does “improve the law mean class”.. Yes, Change it so it will become stronger..

Who in the right mind would say make changes to improve the law so that it fails.. You do.. sorry Scotty you’re all washed up.

It’s almost as if you" Skip Intro "want it to fail so you can prove to us how perceptive and analytical you are..
Nice try..

By the way Polls change quickly, very quickly.. In the meantime its time for you to move on,,

[Skip Intro]

58. Wow.

I don't think any reasonable person would think wanting Congress, yes Congress, to change it is a vote for the law. As of this moment, the majority of Americans oppose the law, and that has been shown in poll after poll. That could change, but for now that is the way it is. That is the reality. To suggest that suddenly there is overwhelming support for it based on your reading of the poll linked to in the OP is little more that wishful thinking in my opinion.

We're just talking about poll numbers. Most adults on a political discussion board would be able to do that in a respectable manner, without getting personal and insulting. I've clearly mistaken you for one of them.

[TheEuclideanOne]

31. Expand it does not mean that they are fans?

So, if somebody says don't change a thing, you interpret that as meaning they dislike it? If somebody buys a product and then says I want more of that, you interpret that as dislike? Give me a break, man. You can not possibly believe that. You must interpret every poll to mean that it agrees with your viewpoint based on that logic.

[Skip Intro]

48. But I never said that.

Read my post again.

[geek tragedy]

32. Virtually everyone wants it improved/changed. A majority REJECTED stopping it.

Please stop trying to circulate rightwing propaganda

kthxbai

[geek tragedy]

34. Thank you for the RNC's spin on this. But, the simple math shows that a solid majority

oppose repeal/defunding.

The law can and should be improved/changed. Lumping those who want to improve it with those who want to sabotage it is deeply dishonest.

[Skip Intro]

43. Saying it doesn't make it so. Nor does insulting me.

There's a vague response option in the poll. I take it to mean one thing, and given the RCP polls on the matter, Americans oppose the ACA by double digits, based on six polls from this month, the latest of which - from yesterday - shows 38-57 favor/oppose. The OP poll shows much the same thing, imho.

What "improved" means is up for debate.

If you have a different opinion, then why not just voice that opinion, rather than engage in personal attacks and name-calling? Why not talk issues instead of concentrating on attacks? Really, can't you engage in respectful and civil discourse, or is this beyond your abilities?

[geek tragedy]

45. Not a single poll shows a majority favoring Republicans blocking it, not one.

When you stop taking the Republicans' side of their disputes with Obama, maybe you'll get a different reception.

[Skip Intro]

46. And I never said one did.

You use an old and tired meta tactic of twisting what a person with whom you disagree says, and then use that to try to attack the character of the person, all the while avoiding any adult conversation and discussion of the issue at hand.

I don't care what kind of reception you give me. Quite the contrary, I'm happy to point out the childish name-calling you try to pass off as discussion. To expose that weak substitute for discourse, and show it for what it is.

Although it is pretty apparent to begin with.

[TekGryphon]

60. You're lying deliberately.

He never said anything of the sort and you're acting like a fanatic with his head in the sand.

All he's saying is that the poll clearly contained a "change" option and a "change and enhance" option, and people like you who are assuming that everyone who selected the "change" option is automatically a part of the "change and enhance" option are being pigheaded and deliberately obtuse.

Get your head out of the sand. We need to change the hearts and minds of people, and deliberately avoiding reality by covering your eyes and ears and screaming "LALALA!" isn't going to do that.

[geek tragedy]

62. "A majority want it stopped or changed"

You know who talks like that?

John Boehner.

[TekGryphon]

63. God help the day John Boehner calls the sky blue.

Then I'll have to listen to partisan extremists on here claim it's white.

Poll after poll shows that while Americans do not want to shutdown the government to repeal the ACA, and do want to give it a shot - many Americans are either opposed to it or want to remove parts of it.

We need to convince them that it should be kept and, in fact, enhanced. We can't do that if we're arguing among ourselves because half of us want to live in fantasy land where Obama rides a rainbow-farting unicorn.

[Skip Intro]

44. CNN poll out today, 38% support ACA, 57% oppose.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/30/rel10a.pdf

This matches exactly my take on what the poll in the OP actually says about support for the ACA.

Here's the RCP roundup of polls on support for the ACA, all taken this month, for reference:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

[busterbrown]

50. You know what?

Bring your argument about this particular post somewhere else..

This thing is gonna be very fluid over the next couple of months.. We’ll be sure to check back with each other.

In the meantime you will never convince me that I read the poll incorrectly. “Wanted it stronger means to strengthen!”

[TekGryphon]

59. You and the rest here are being deliberately obtuse and acting fanatical

The poll very clearly, to anyone with a 5th grade reading level or higher, contained two "change" options. One was for people who wanted to see the law changed and enhanced, and one for people who wanted the law changed.

Skip Intro is pointing out, correctly, that it is a fallacy to assume that those who chose the "change" option over the "change and enhance" want the law to be "changed and enhanced". If that was the case, they would have chosen that option.

Thus the only logical possibilities for those who chose the "change" options are:

1. They are hard of hearing or mentally deficient and thus did not hear or understand the "change and enhance" option.
2. They want to change the ACA but keep it roughly the same.
3. They want to change and diminish the ACA.

You and the other fanatics here are pretending that the 1st category makes up the majority of those polled who selected that option are being foolish and pigheaded. Stop embarassing yourselves. We need to be working on changing people's hearts and minds about the ACA, not shoving our heads in the sand and pretending everything is great.

[PatrynXX]

3. Dr Suess musta gotten to them

that darn green ham

[Cha]

21. Obamacare.. Blame it on..

h/t pinboy http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3731533

[joshcryer]

5. So the Republicans are inadvertantly making Americans like it.

And the exchanges haven't even kicked in.

That's actually fucking hilarious.

[ffr]

7. Poll results only work on people who can read.

You know what I mean.

[Celefin]

22. So a majority of Americans do NOT see everything in black and white

The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.

That should be food for thought for the with us or against us crowd in Washington.

66% of Americans aren't stupid - pretty please stop treating them as such!

[JI7]

23. seems like the more Republicans oppose it the less people are opposed to it

[Democat]

24. How many anti Obamacare articles does Forbes run per day?

Any poll by Forbes or the Wall Street Journal probably skews strongly anti Obamacare.

[samsingh]

25. out of that 1/3 i would be surprised if even more than 10% even understood what they were against

it's probably the same third that votes repug no matter what.

[Kingofalldems]

26. Never trust a republican.

[Turbineguy]

27. And many of those are just parroting

what Fox News orders them to think.

[yurbud]

28. and they often don't ask those who don't like it if it isn't because it doesn't go far enough.

[blkmusclmachine]

38. .

.

[Jack Rabbit]

39. Just as I thought. Whenever some media whore says "Obamacare is wildly unpopular"

. . . he's lying.

OK, count me as among the 12% who want to see real national health insurance like they have in Europe. Call me a European-style socialist if you like. I'd rather have a strong socialist system than the Randian dystopia the Koch brothers would impose on us.

There are some things private industry does better than government, but delivering health care isn't one of them.

[Mr.Bill]

47. One Third. Or as Ted Cruz puts it,

The vast majority of America.

[Dawson Leery]

51. Most will accept the law with some changes.

[King_Klonopin]

55. Who gives a flying F--- about any of this !!

These are polls about a law that hasn't even been fully implemented yet !!

The polls that will count will be coming in about six months, after
the public experiences the TRUTH about the ACA. Then we can
exhale knowing the law can't be disparaged any more by the GOP
propaganda machine.

[olddad56]

65. people who aren't taking anti-anxiety meds like Klonopin

[King_Klonopin]

66. It is The King, after all! (good yuk)

Why get our knickers all bunched up over stupid opinion polls?
The numbers that count are yet to be counted -- they will be
the numbers of uninsured who have enrolled (already huge)
and their satisfaction with the programs.

Poll Question: Do you approve or disapprove of the year 2018 ?

Tea Party Response: It's awful. I disapprove!


Now, everybody, back to the benzo's !!!

[LanternWaste]

57. One wonders what the polls would have revealed had the populace been queried regarding the 14th Amen

One wonders what the polls would have revealed had the populace been queried regarding the 14th Amendment.

One of the reasons I believe that "the most popular" and "the most effective" are two wholly and separate concepts-- in law as in many other things too.

[olddad56]

64. Lets dump Obamacare in favor of the Affordable Care Act.....

[sendero]

67. The same 30% idiot-contingent..

... we've suffered since the 80s.