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brooklynite

(94,745 posts)
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:18 PM Oct 2013

Government shutdown: John Boehner: ‘There’s going to be a negotiation’

Source: Politico

Speaker John Boehner said President Barack Obama’s desire to negotiate after the debt ceiling is lifted and government is funded amounts to “unconditional surrender by Republicans.”

The message, delivered outside the speaker’s office on Tuesday afternoon as a response to Obama’s earlier press conference, does not bode well for solving the government shutdown or debt default this week.

Boehner called on Democrats — either in the Senate or White House — to begin negotiations Tuesday. Democrats said government must be funded and the debt ceiling must be hiked before talks start.

“The long and short of it is there’s going to be a negotiation,” Boehner said. “The only way this is going to happen is to in fact have a conversation….the conversation ought to start today.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-debt-limit-house-senate-97982.html?hp=t2_s



I guess he's not "playing games" anymore.....
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Government shutdown: John Boehner: ‘There’s going to be a negotiation’ (Original Post) brooklynite Oct 2013 OP
He has committed sedition and needs to be removed from office, and into prison. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #1
thumbs up 1000 times Doremus Oct 2013 #4
Maybe they should investigate first bucolic_frolic Oct 2013 #5
Last I checked, we were not the Republicans Kelvin Mace Oct 2013 #7
We have few options until 2014. Actually we have no option left except capitulation R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #16
No, but I once decide we can make exception Kelvin Mace Oct 2013 #23
On what legal grounds would we arrest anyone on the right? R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #24
Violation of your oath of office is an Kelvin Mace Oct 2013 #25
+100000 cristianmarie533 Oct 2013 #33
“Unconditional surrender by Republicans” mac56 Oct 2013 #2
He says it like it's a bad thing. nt Xipe Totec Oct 2013 #11
I will second that: "Unconditional surrender by Republicans" PuffedMica Oct 2013 #13
The Tea Party/Boehner took a stand without an end kiranon Oct 2013 #22
Oh, there's going to be a negotiation. reflection Oct 2013 #3
He's going to negotiate with an empty chair munster69 Oct 2013 #8
LOL lanlady Oct 2013 #12
Boehner is a sad person Gothmog Oct 2013 #6
Did someone make him president while I took my nap? TBF Oct 2013 #9
You didn't hear? JeffHead Oct 2013 #10
So much for Obama's 5-year capitulation to these thugs. What did Obama gain from his never-ending blkmusclmachine Oct 2013 #32
The conversation you speak of orangeman SHOULD benld74 Oct 2013 #14
what`s to negociate?.... madrchsod Oct 2013 #15
The caucus has to decide what their position is. grantcart Oct 2013 #17
Scorned ltheghost Oct 2013 #18
Could the Orangeman turn blue if he holds his breath and stomps his feet like a spoiled brat? Owl Oct 2013 #19
Impeachment SammyBrown Oct 2013 #20
Ironically, Impeachment Is A Tool That Congress Can Use DallasNE Oct 2013 #28
Heh. Oh Boner, They_Live Oct 2013 #21
Is he waving the white flag Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2013 #26
Interesting To Watch The Stock Market Today DallasNE Oct 2013 #27
John Boehner spoke at about 4:30 PM eastern time, 30 minutes after the NYSE closed. kelly1mm Oct 2013 #30
Don't Be Such A Jerk DallasNE Oct 2013 #34
The markets closed at 4:00 pm EST. That is a fact. Bohner spoke after 4pm, also a fact. kelly1mm Oct 2013 #35
Sounds like extortion to me. Is this a Violation of his Oath of Office? Can Boner be arrested? blkmusclmachine Oct 2013 #29
whatever. ZRT2209 Oct 2013 #31
I would like to envision Boehner and Reid or Boehner and Obama Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2013 #36
 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
1. He has committed sedition and needs to be removed from office, and into prison.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:20 PM
Oct 2013

The extreme minority is damaging the country and he KNOWS it. He's holding America hostage, and SEAL team needs to be sent in and remove the baggers and thrown into a mental institution for doctors to do determination that these people are legally insane and cannot function as a Representative of the United States.

bucolic_frolic

(43,311 posts)
5. Maybe they should investigate first
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:28 PM
Oct 2013

They always tell citizens to report extortion to local authorities or the FBI

Making these tactics visible and ostensibly legal is going to send quite a message
to Americans

"I'm not going to pay my electric bill until you knock $20 off!"

"I want more fries before I pay - that box there is kind of skimpy."

The possibilities are endless, the result is sheer chaos.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
16. We have few options until 2014. Actually we have no option left except capitulation
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 07:44 PM
Oct 2013

to GOP demands.

Should the POTUS go in that direction?
 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
23. No, but I once decide we can make exception
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 10:55 PM
Oct 2013

to these things, we will continue to do so in the future. On what legal grounds would we arrest anyone on the right? Last I looked there are no sedition laws despite New Gingrich wanting to revive the 1917 Sedition Act. Please, lay out for me how the warrant will be drawn up.

Love your screen name, by the way.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
24. On what legal grounds would we arrest anyone on the right?
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:25 PM
Oct 2013

One could argue that if the leadership of the GOP fails to allow a vote on CR, as there seems to be enough Republican votes for its passage, and they willfully allow this country to default...bringing about financial chaos then they would be in violation of their oath of office. If they crash the economy then they could very well be bringing about bad times to equal 2008.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


What good is taking an oath to uphold the constitution while your intent is to ignore it for the sake of one's political party and their collective egos? Doing so will put them at odds with their constitutionally elected duties as stewards of the same constitution.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/10/07/why-the-14th-amendment-matters-in-the-debt-ceiling-crisis/

Though triggered by specific threats the country faced in the aftermath of the Civil War, Section 4 of the 14th Amendment remains relevant to our world. Yale's Balkin explained on his Balkinization blog in June 2011: "Section 4 targets the worry that, once fully readmitted to the Union, senators and representatives from Southern states ... would deliberately refuse to repay debts incurred in suppressing the confederate rebellion." Still, he continued, the provision "was stated in broad terms in order to prevent future majorities in Congress from repudiating the federal debt to gain political advantage, to seek political revenge, or to try to disavow previous financial obligations because of changed policy priorities."


The inevitable crisis arises because the President has a Constitutional obligation to "take care that the laws ... be faithfully executed," which means spending money at the levels Congress has mandated. Yet his only source of funds with which to do so are the revenues Congress permits him to raise via taxes or the funds it permits him to borrow by issuing public debt. (The Constitution gives Congress control over all three functions: spending, taxation, and borrowing.) If the President fails to come up with the requisite money to spend, he'll default on the public debt in violation of Section 4 of the 14th Amendment.


But the bigger point is this: Section 4 of the 14th Amendment exists, and it is all about trying to ban precisely what's going on right now. The only question is how it applies. And even that uncertainty tells us something very important about the gravity of the crisis we are facing today. The reason we have so few precedents to guide us in applying Section 4 is that, by and large, the provision comes into play only when a critical mass of members of Congress are willing to see grievous harm come to our nation if their demands aren't met -- demands that cannot be achieved through ordinary democratic processes. That's a situation that we really haven't faced since Civil War Reconstruction, when formerly hostile, armed insurgents were being reintegrated into the Union and, therefore, into Congress.


The President is not the only one who has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution. Members of Congress, too, have an obligation to support and defend it -- including Section 4. The House members currently using the prospect of debt-default as a bargaining chip -- whether to delay implementation of the Affordable Care Act or to achieve any other goal -- are betraying the Constitution, and the President is correct to draw a line in the sand and refuse to legitimize this abuse or incentivize its recurrence. He deserves immediate, full-throated, bipartisan support for putting an end to this constitutionally forbidden tactic once and for all.


Sorry for the info dump, and it is CNN, but I thought it was relevant.

The last paragraph says the most, but the previous ones give context.


So how would I draw up a warrant? I wouldn't. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure if a default happens there will be plenty of lawyers that would consider giving it a shot; especially if they lose their shirts in a heavy economic downturn.

TY about the screen name.
 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
25. Violation of your oath of office is an
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:36 PM
Oct 2013

impeachable offense. Only the House can offer articles of impeachment (the Senate and Chief Justice of the SCOTUS try the case). These alleged crimes are being committed by public officials acting in their public capacity, thus the usual criminal justice system is held in abeyance until an impeachment and conviction occur.

So how do you propose to get the GOP to impeach its own people? And if you could, a conviction in the Senate is a long shot.

In my opinion, Obama has the power under the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling. I think if push comes to shove he, will act under that authority. If he does, he will be impeached by the House GOP and acquitted in the Senate (that is a dead certainty in my view).

PuffedMica

(1,061 posts)
13. I will second that: "Unconditional surrender by Republicans"
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 06:50 PM
Oct 2013

We won the election (twice) and our President is in charge here. The obstructionist Republicans are endangering both the economic health and the National Security of this Nation.
If the Republicans refuse to pass a clean CR and then pass a negotiated budget along the lines the President wants, they should be arrested and confined while the Democrats fix the problems.

kiranon

(1,727 posts)
22. The Tea Party/Boehner took a stand without an end
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 10:28 PM
Oct 2013

plan. Welcome to Iraq - debt ceiling style. It's time to gracefully withdraw, put forth a clean CR and raise the debt ceiling and go on to fight another day. Do it in the name of the veterans, cancer patients, children and so on to make it look like they are making the sacrifice for the good of the country/veterans/women/children/God. Create another ribbon they can paste everywhere to honor their sacrifice. Maybe dough rising on a field of green.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
3. Oh, there's going to be a negotiation.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:26 PM
Oct 2013

I can't wait to see him negotiate his way to the car late tonight, dropping his keys several times and muttering about "debt sheelingsh."

Gothmog

(145,619 posts)
6. Boehner is a sad person
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:31 PM
Oct 2013

Boehner is in a tough position and has to decide between his job as speaker and his country. So far, Boehner is protecting his job and its perks at the expense of our country

JeffHead

(1,186 posts)
10. You didn't hear?
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 06:15 PM
Oct 2013

Obama and Biden both resigned and told Johnny to have fun dealing with this shit and see how you like it.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
32. So much for Obama's 5-year capitulation to these thugs. What did Obama gain from his never-ending
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
Oct 2013
fetish for "bipartisanship"? The GOPee most likely is going to impeach him, anyway. Eh.

benld74

(9,910 posts)
14. The conversation you speak of orangeman SHOULD
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 06:51 PM
Oct 2013

have taken place 5 months ago, when the DEMS were pleading with the GOP to got to comittee with the House and Senate budgets PRIOR to voting on them.
BUT, the GOP had other ideas.

This is where we are now. AND it is BECAUSE of the GOP.

ltheghost

(37 posts)
18. Scorned
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 08:01 PM
Oct 2013

Why is Boehner coming off like a scorned ex girlfriend? He has been talking all week about having a conversation with Obama..lol.... He probably wants a seafood dinner too. I can't wait for the Republicans to turn on him when he caves. Hello Speaker Cantor.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
28. Ironically, Impeachment Is A Tool That Congress Can Use
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:06 AM
Oct 2013

To remove the President, Vice President or Federal judges. Members of Congress are secure in their jobs although the can bring ethics charges against members and pressure can be applied that forces them to resign. But as the case of Sen. Vitters (R-LA) shows you can frequent prostitutes and still get re-elected.

They_Live

(3,241 posts)
21. Heh. Oh Boner,
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 10:23 PM
Oct 2013

don't think of it as "Unconditional surrender by Republicans", just think of it as being strong enoughtto admit the fact that you LOST. Twice. At least.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
27. Interesting To Watch The Stock Market Today
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:58 PM
Oct 2013

As Obama started to speak the Dow was down nearly 140 points. As he concluded his press conference the Dow bounced back to where it was only down 95 points. Then John Boehner spoke and the Dow closed down 160. One assumes the American peoples sentiments pretty much mirrored the trade activity on the Dow. Obama gave hope and Boehner dumped cold water on that hope. And the Republicans think they are winning the PR battle with the American people. How delusional of them.

kelly1mm

(4,735 posts)
30. John Boehner spoke at about 4:30 PM eastern time, 30 minutes after the NYSE closed.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:30 AM
Oct 2013

So, are you arguing that the President dumped cold water on the markets? That since " One assumes the American peoples sentiments pretty much mirrored the trade activity on the Dow" that the R's are winning the PR battle?

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
34. Don't Be Such A Jerk
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 04:52 AM
Oct 2013

Obama was scheduled to speak at 2:00PM http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/10/08/at-obamas-press-conference-wheres-the-accountability/ This post has retweets in the 2:20 to 2:40 timeline so he may not have started until about 2:15.

Here is Dow chart showing late bump before plunging 60 points in the last 35 minutes. http://t.money.msn.com/investing/stock-price?symbol=$INDU

Now I wasn't paying close attention to when during the press conference I first observed the Dow. My recollection was the Dow was down 137 but the chart shows it must have been down 127 instead. I was shocked when it was down in the upper 90's several minutes later, confirmed by the chart. So the bounce was 30 points rather than 40 points. Big deal.

I could not find a timeline on when Boehner spoke but I'm sure it was not over an hour after Obama finished. I had a phone call as Sam Stein was asking his question so I had a several minute gap and when I came back it was only a couple of minutes before Boehner stepped up to the mike. I did find a write-up on Boehners presser that was filed at 4:38 so it is almost certain that Boehner had finished before 4:30.

kelly1mm

(4,735 posts)
35. The markets closed at 4:00 pm EST. That is a fact. Bohner spoke after 4pm, also a fact.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:34 PM
Oct 2013

Your entire post was based on what the markets did based on your assertion that the markets reacted favorably to the President's speach and unfavorably to Bohner's comments. The markets were closed when Bohner spoke. Thus, your assertions make no sense.



Just so you know here is a google hit:

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Speaker of the House of Representatives John Boehner will make a statement at 4:30 p.m. ET on Tuesday, aides said, apparently to respond to President Barack Obama's news conference earlier in the day that focused on their stalemate on fiscal issues.
Boehner renewed his call for negotiations on Tuesday, while Obama said he would be willing to talk with the speaker once Congress reopens the government and raises the debt limit."

http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-statement-fiscal-crisis-201610881--business.html

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,438 posts)
36. I would like to envision Boehner and Reid or Boehner and Obama
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:50 PM
Oct 2013

sitting down at a table and the President (or Reid) offering him a paper with a big fat "zero" on it and telling him that negotiations are now concluded.

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