Toyota bumps up hydrogen-powered car in US to 2015

[bananas]

Source: Washington Post

Toyota said Monday that a hydrogen-powered vehicle that emits only water vapor as exhaust will go on sale in the U.S. in 2015, a year earlier than it promised just two months ago.

The Japanese automaker made the announcement Monday at the International CES, the technology industry’s annual gadget show. The shift came months after rival automakers Hyundai and Honda both said they’d start selling cars with that technology in the U.S. in 2015.

The electric car, which Toyota calls FCV for now, uses hydrogen as fuel for a battery. Toyota says it will have a range of 300 miles, can accelerate from standstill to 60 miles per hour in 10 seconds, and can refuel its hydrogen tank in three to five minutes.

Toyota says it will focus on selling cars in California at first. Working with researchers at the University of California, Irvine, Toyota said the first 10,000 vehicles can be supported with only 68 refueling stations from San Francisco to San Diego. It noted that California has approved $200 million to build about 20 fueling stations by 2015, 40 by 2016 and 100 by 2024.

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Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/toyota-bumps-up-hydrogen-powered-car-in-us-to-2015/2014/01/06/1c309a06-7716-11e3-a647-a19deaf575b3_story.html

[bananas]

1. CES 2014: Toyota shows off fuel cell car that can also power a home for a week

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-toyota-fcv-fuel-cell-ces-20140106,0,884109.story

CES 2014: Toyota shows off fuel cell car that can also power a home
By Jerry Hirsch
January 6, 2014, 1:00 p.m.

Toyota Motor Corp. released new details on its fuel cell car Monday at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas - including plans for an adapter allowing the car to power your home.

The automaker chose the big tech gathering to display the four-seater, which looks like a futuristic Prius, to highlight its advanced engineering. A fully-fueled vehicle will be able to supply enough energy to power a house for a week in an emergency, Toyota said. Its engineers are working on an adapter that will connect the car into a home’s electrical grid.

After debuting the concept car at the Tokyo Motor Show in November, Toyota plans to start selling the car in the United States next year. While it has yet to disclose pricing, the company said it has slashed the cost of bringing the car to market by tapping an electric powertrain it already uses on one of its hybrid vehicles and other common parts.

“Fuel cell electric vehicles will be in our future sooner than many people believe, and in much greater numbers than anyone expected,” said Bob Carter, senior vice president of automotive operations for Toyota’s U.S. sales arm.

Toyota is one of three companies pushing forward with fuel cell vehicle cars. Hyundai will start offering one later this year and Honda plans one next year.

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[loudsue]

10. Well there goes the American car industry. Republicans have made sure this country

has been "left behind".... I mean, after all, why innovate for the future when we're all going to be "raptured", right? And stupid is cool and science sucks.

Republicans are really bad for business.

[bananas]

2. Toyota will sell a fuel-cell car around the world in 2015

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5278884/toyota-will-sell-a-fuel-cell-car-around-the-world-in-2015

Toyota will sell a fuel-cell car around the world in 2015
By Chris Ziegler on January 6, 2014 04:00 pm

For automakers, CES is often dominated by self-driving and the ever-growing notion of the connected car, but Toyota's taking a more environmental tack with today's announcement: it's reiterating the call that it will have a hydrogen fuel-cell car for sale to consumers next year that produces nothing more than water vapor from the tailpipe. Toyota has said in recent months that it would have fuel-cell tech in consumers' hands "around 2015," but this is the first time that it's locking next year in stone — and it'll be a global launch, including the US.

<snip>

Toyota says it'll launch its fuel cell car first in California — the same state where Honda has offered its FCX Clarity on lease. California is a frequent target for early alternative fuel vehicle launches, and for good reason; as Toyota notes, California has approved some $200 million to build hydrogen refueling stations statewide starting with 20 by next year. Details of the production car haven't been released, but the prototype model that Toyota has been testing recently delivers 300 miles on a tank of hydrogen and takes three to five minutes to top off — reasonable numbers for a car that real-world drivers might want to own.

[bananas]

3. It's a hybrid fuel cell and battery

From the thread in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4290806

http://www.toyota.com/fuelcell/

The same hybrid technology at the heart of the Prius but with hydrogen and fuel cell stack.

[BlueStreak]

4. Not the same system

The Fuel cell doesn't deliver any mechanical power. It only produces electricity. So all the propulsion must come from electric motors. That is quite different from the Prius. Even on the plug-in Prius, the control system with fire up the engine if more acceleration is needed. You can't do that with this setup. You have to scale up the electric motors to provide 100% of the horsepower that you need in the vehicle.

I'm sure they can reuse some of the Pruis technology for regenerative braking.

[YOHABLO]

5. Okay .. I'm looking for the price tag .. can't find one.

Let's get everybody in electric or hydrogen by 2020 and give the oil companies the finger. (or are they the ones behind the refueling stations? It would figure wouldn't it?)

[bananas]

6. $50,000 to $100,000

Toyota Motor Corp. has promised to sell its fuel cell cars for $50,000 to $100,000, aiming for the lower end of the range.

[mpcamb]

15. Anybody know what a tank of fuel would cost?

Seems like 300 miles isn't much of a range.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. 300 miles is fine

My Nissan Sentra gets about 30MPG and has a 12 gallon tank, so that is 360 miles. The Nissan Leaf gets 50-100 miles on a charge depending on driving conditions, so 300 miles is a BIG improvement for a ZEV.

[tofuandbeer]

7. Found something, and it's not cheap (of course):

"Now, the company says it can produce a hydrogen fuel cell powered car that will cost in the neighborhood of $50,000. That isn’t cheap, but it is competitive with the Tesla Model S, which goes for just under $70, 000."

http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/13/06/3712993/toyota-to-roll-out-competitively-priced-hydrogen-powered

[yellowcanine]

14. Given the infrastructure deficits, Toyota needs to bring these in at near the cost of a Prius.

Or they are not going to sell very many of them.

[caraher]

9. Most hydrogen today derives from fossil fuels

Yes, one could use some carbon-free source of electricity to do electrolysis... if you do and run your car from that, good for you. But these fueling stations will just drive demand for natural gas.

The real benefit of fuel cell vehicles may lie in local air quality in cities with severe automotive emissions problems.

[Snotcicles]

17. Google: Ovshinsky’s Hydrogen Loop. nt

[William Seger]

8. Bad idea unless we first find a clean, renewable source of electricity

... to make the hydrogen. As physicist Bob Parks likes to point out, there are no hydrogen wells. There's a net energy loss making hydrogen with electricity and another loss when you extract electricity out of it with a fuel cell. If we have to burn more non-renewable fossil fuels to make the electricity to make the hydrogen, that would be worse than sticking with gasoline or just putting the electricity directly into electric car batteries. The only advantage hydrogen cars would have over direct electric cars is that you could fill them up like gasoline-powered cars rather than have to wait for a recharge -- provided, of course, that you could find a hydrogen station. This is an unrealistic Bush-era idea.

[yellowcanine]

13. The infrastructure needs are a big issue which is downplayed in the article.....

Toyota says it will have a range of 300 miles, can accelerate from standstill to 60 miles per hour in 10 seconds, and can refuel its hydrogen tank in three to five minutes.

snip....

“We don’t need a station on every corner,” he said.


So the car has a range of 300 miles, which is less than most cars on the road today and it takes about the same time to refuel as a Prius (10 gallons) I don't get it that the proponents are claiming they don't need the same level of infrastructure. No one wants to have to search for a refueling station when they are hitting the range of the car.

[loudsue]

11. And, btw, screw the oil industry!!! Yay!!!!

I can't wait until the koch brothers have been made totally redundant.

[yellowcanine]

12. Actually no - because natural gas being used to extract the hydrogen....

Eventually, maybe - but for now and for a long time we are going to be using natural gas and other fossil fuels not just for transport but also heating houses, etc. Fossil fuels not likely to be totally redundant in our or our grandchildren's lifetimes.

[loudsue]

18. yes. That sucks. I didn't know. nt