Edward Snowden: ‘Not Possible’ to Return to U.S. Now

[DonViejo]

Source: ABC News

By Lee Ferran

Jan 23, 2014 4:37pm

Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor that exposed the agency’s most closely held secrets, said today that while returning to the U.S. would be the “best resolution” for everyone, it’s “not possible” now because he does not believe he can get a fair trial.

Charged in the U.S. with espionage-related crimes and living quietly in Russia, Snowden answered Twitter questions today in an online Q&A. When CNN’s Jake Tapper asked under what conditions Snowden would return to the U.S., the 30-year-old said the nearly 100-year-old Espionage Act, under which he is charged, “forbids a public interest defense.”

“This is especially frustrating, because it means there’s no chance to have a fair trial, and no way I can come home and make my case to a jury,” he said.

In a Wall Street Journal Op Ed Tuesday, attorney Jesselyn Radack, who has represented government whistleblowers in the past and has had contact with Snowden, argued similarly that it’s a “fantasy” to think Snowden would be able to mount a solid defense in a fair trial due to Espionage Act-related government restrictions.

-snip-

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/01/edward-snowden-not-possible-to-return-to-u-s-now/

[mike_c]

1. this is why those who call for Snowden to return and face the charges are disingenuous at best....

They know he will only face a foregone conclusion in a kangaroo court, where he will not be allowed to defend himself. He'll be railroaded, just like Chelsea Manning was railroaded.

[George II]

6. Rather presumptuous, aren't you? We won't know until he returns, will we?

[Th1onein]

26. Not presumptuous at all. We know from history: Manning.

And others before Manning.

[George II]

32. Manning was a sad case, and I really feel sorry for the person.

Assange saw a mixed up individual that he could manipulate, and he duped Manning into stealing all those documents for his own benefit. So Manning winds up going to jail (and I'm sure a horrendous existence) for decades while Assange sips champagne in the cushy environs of a foreign embassy.

As much as I pity poor Manning, I despise Assange even more.

[Th1onein]

42. It wasn't just Manning. There were others before him.

Who did, indeed, try to go the straight route. Their lives were ruined.

[ronnie624]

44. Lol. n/t

[George II]

7. "Chelsea" Manning didn't go on trial, Bradley did. He/she didn't become "Chelsea" until....

.....AFTER the trial.

What makes you think he was railroaded?

[deurbano]

8. What's the point of the quotation marks in "Chelsea" Manning?

Also, the person who went on trail was the same person after the trial... and that person now prefers to be called Chelsea.

[struggle4progress]

13. If Manning wants a name change, perhaps the most natural approach would be to petition

a court for the name change

As matters now stand, Manning, as a prisoner at Leavenworth, is still officially known as "Bradley Manning;" the records of the case were always similarly styled; and Manning's 21 August 2013 application to the Office of the Pardon Attorney, seeking a Presidential pardon for "Bradley Edward Manning," is signed "Bradley Manning"

[treestar]

17. To be sure there could not be a "fair" hearing on the name change petition either

The court would likely follow the law as it stands, which may be different from what Manning wants, in which case, it's "unfair."

[struggle4progress]

19. The procedure seems pretty simple in Kansas. There might be two hurdles for Manning:

first, establishing Kansas residency; and second, actually appearing in court personally to defend the name change, if the judge considers it necessary

The first is probably easy, as Manning is currently domiciled in Kansas and has no plans to move elsewhere in the immediate future. The second could present a problem, since Leavenworth officials might not be much inclined to help Manning appear in a Kansas court for a name-change, lest various other prisoners at Leavenworth conclude a name change offers a handy excuse for a daytrip outside the walls: maybe, however, a good lawyer might persuade a Kansas judge that Manning's name-change did not require much special investigation

Beyond that, it's just fees, some newspaper notices, and some paperwork, then a court date

[randome]

20. "...is currently domiciled in Kansas and has no plans to move elsewhere in the immediate future."

Oh, you of the subtle wit!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[struggle4progress]

22. Statute 79-32,109: Definitions

... (b) "Resident individual" means a natural person who is domiciled in this state. A natural person who spends in the aggregate more than six months of the taxable year within this state shall be presumed to be a resident for purposes of this act in absence of proof to the contrary ...
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_79/Article_32/79-32x109.html

Kansas Administrative Regulations
92-12-4a. Resident individual. (a) ... “Kansas resident” shall have the same meaning as that assigned to the term “resident individual” in K.S.A. 79-32,109 ...
(1) Subject to the further conditions and requirements in this subsection, “domicile” shall mean that place in which a person’s habitation is fixed, without any present intention of removal, and to which, whenever absent, that person intends to return ...
http://rvpolicy.kdor.ks.gov/Pilots/Ntrntpil/IPILv1x0.NSF/ae2ee39f7748055f8625655b004e9335/172c2d615f169b8e86257146004a9afa?OpenDocument

[randome]

25. I worked in Kansas for three years. Wouldn't wish that on anyone, even an incarcerated felon.

Okay, there were some good times, too.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[deurbano]

23. It's a matter of her stated preference and respect (or not) for that choice, not a legal issue.

My daughter's legal name is still the name that was on her birth certificate in Vietnam. She prefers to be called by her American first and last name, so everyone respects her wishes-- without feeling compelled to use snarky quotation marks.

[struggle4progress]

28. I doubt everyone will respect Manning's wishes in this regard: I have already pointed out upthread

that Manning signed the Presidential pardon request "Bradley Manning" in late August, and that the institution of confinement still identifies the prisoner as "Bradley Manning"

There are, of course, multiple issues here, such as the defense claim that Manning's leaks resulted from a medical condition, sometimes called gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria. The issue, whether Manning suffers from such a condition, can be resolved neither by Manning's self-diagnosis nor by casual posts on internet bulletin board but is instead simply a matter that must be considered by appropriate physicians. A related issue, whether Manning's medical condition ameliorates responsibility for some criminal acts, will be resolved only by combining available expert medical testimony with knowledge of current legal theories of diminished responsibility. To date, I have encountered no information on Manning's appeal, though the fact that counsel did attempt, in part, a diminished responsibility defense, which seems to have failed, suggests that the appeal will include arguments that the gender dysphoria diagnosis was not properly considered in verdict or in sentence

... Attorneys representing Pfc. Bradley Manning, a 24-year-old Army private previously identified as gay, startled observers at a pre-court martial hearing on Saturday by saying allegations that Manning leaked classified U.S. intelligence information could be linked to a personal struggle over his gender identity ...
Lawyers say Bradley Manning struggled with gender identity disorder
December 19, 2011
By Lou Chibbaro Jr. on December 19, 2011

I myself have never interacted with Manning in any manner. My knowledge of Manning is essentially limited to the unauthorized disclosure of hundreds of thousands of files Manning never have read. I have at present no cause to form any definite opinion whatsoever about any alleged psychiatric or medical condition Manning might suffer. On purely abstract grounds, I consider it a serious mistake to portray Manning as a poster-child for the gay community -- as some apparently wanted to do through election to Grand Marshal of San Francisco Pride -- or to make Manning the face of persons suffering gender dysphoria, especially as such portrayal is related to a particular court-martial defense strategy

Manning's daily interactions currently will be with guards and fellow-prisoners, and the modes of address by guards will be largely governed by regulation. If Manning strongly prefers not to be known as "Bradley Edward Manning," then a name-change seems an appropriate route for change

[markpkessinger]

29. If a guy named Theodore asked you to call him Ted . . .

. . . Would you insist on putting Ted in single quotes?

[struggle4progress]

30. The use of quotation marks in such contexts is sometimes common, in fact

Claudia Alta "Lady Bird" Taylor Johnson
Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jr.
Charles "Charlie" Parker, Jr.
Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower

[markpkessinger]

31. In some contexts, yes, but not in routine references n/t

[deurbano]

36. Of course. And Manning is not using Chelsea as a nickname. It has greater significance.

It also was just thrown in gratuitously by the poster upthread, since it has nothing to do with agreeing with or refuting the position that Manning was railroaded.

[George II]

24. Bingo

[George II]

33. Perhaps, but that person was "Bradley" before and during the trial.

[Demeter]

2. The Supreme court should overturn this relic of less-enlightened times

so that we can have democracy at last.

[pa28]

3. Not possible in the face of circumstances as they appear now.

It seems to me that he's saying he could return with an immunity deal.

[SoapBox]

4. ..."living quietly in Russia" ???

ROFLMAO

Comrade Eddie, the media whore?????

He CANNOT keep his mouth shut!

Traitor Snowden, you are NEVER coming back to America. Try Somalia or some such place.

[frylock]

11. arglebargle!!12

take your redbaiting bullshit back the '50s.

[deurbano]

37. Yeah, geez..."Comrade Eddie"?! Either back to the 50's... or Freeperland (which is kinda the same).

[DisgustipatedinCA]

27. Are you aware that you just demonstrated that you have no idea what you're talking about?

Really. It's provable. I just wasn't sure if you were aware of how this makes you look.

[George II]

5. Too bad. One doesn't refuse to face charges merely because HE believes he won't....

....get a fair trial. That's a slap in the face of America's judicial system.

Quite honestly, the numbers of those who care are dwindling. It may reach the point that only three people consider him relevant any more - he himself, Glenn Greenwald (until he finds another dupe), and Vladimir Putin.

[deurbano]

9. "Quite honestly, the numbers of those who care are dwindling." Yet, here you are.

[frylock]

12. the haters give "media whore" snowden more attention then they care to admit

[George II]

34. Yep, working to enlighten the dwindling few of their folly

[Titonwan]

41. Pssst...

It ain't working. You don't do current news much, do ya?

[struggle4progress]

10. I suspect public opinion could be rallied to support immunity for leaking about metadata

But he's gone rather beyond that: he provided the Chinese with information about Chinese addresses; he provided some technical details about UK intercepts; and so on

And he's managed to provoke quite a number of diplomatic crises completely unrelated to metadata collection

Moreover, he set out to do something like this: he says he took the BAH job because it might offer him the ability to obtain documents, and he then obtained a number of them by conning co-workers into revealing their passwords to him. In all, he obtained something like 1.7 million files, more than twice as many as Manning -- so, like Manning, he cannot have known the contents of most of the documents he handed over

[randome]

14. Which begs the question...

...why hasn't Greenwald released anything of late? It's been a while, hasn't it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[struggle4progress]

15. Greenwald's primary interest IMO is whatever magnifies Greenwald

[George II]

35. Not enough money has been offered!

[treestar]

16. Since he considers himself above our government, no wonder he thinks the trial would not be fair

He thinks he should be above our law. Too bad for him he's in a place that has a much more repressive government. I don't think it's going to respect his opinion that he gets to do whatever he pleases.

[randome]

18. "Welcome to another edition of 'Where Are They Now?'"

"Tonight, we interview local goat herder Edward Snowden. It may be hard to visualize but Mr. Snowden once worked for the American intelligence services. Good afternoon, Mr. Snowden, how is your herd today?"

"Whuh? Huh? Oh. Right. Did you see that light in the sky?"

"Mr. Snowden, you were once in a position of great trust for the American National Security Agency before you stole classified information and gave it away to foreign journalists. Can you tell us how you've adjusted to your life in Russia?"

"Sure. Right. Mr. One-Horn here is my best friend. He only has one horn. But he likes the other goats."

"Ohhhh...kay, Mr. Snowden, thank you for your time. Give our regards to Wikileaks or Vladimir Putin. Or...the goat association or whatever it is that you...whatever. Stop that. We're on camera. Good night, everyone!"
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[jmowreader]

21. Sure it's possible!

The minute he's no longer useful to the Russian government, they'll just take him into custody, call the US Embassy and ask that he be picked up.

[DeSwiss]

38. Stay where you are buddy.

You have all the leverage now. And as these revelations continue the water will get hotter for them, not you.

- Fuck 'em.....

K&R

[Titonwan]

40. Right on, DeSwiss! n/t

[Titonwan]

39. Stay away Edward (for now)

America is under the influence of propaganda and police state policy. Until we get this under control- there won't be any justice.
End the evil 'patriot' act. Rein in the NSA. Give this guy a medal, fer chrissakes.

[Cryptoad]

43. The Best thing He could do

for his cause would be to return and face the music, but it wouldnt be the best thing for him. The Gubermint is glad that he is where he his!

[hughee99]

45. Even with full immunity and no prosecution, it would just be a matter of time until they "find"

kiddie porn on his computer, a pound of heroine in the trunk of car, or a dead prostitute in his basement.