Biden says Venezuela 'concocting' bogus stories

[Zorro]

Source: AP

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden calls Venezuela's situation alarming in remarks published Sunday, suggesting its government is using "armed vigilantes" against peaceful protesters and accusing it of "concocting false and outlandish conspiracy theories" about the United States.

Biden's remarks, issued in writing to a Chilean newspaper in response to questions, drew an angry rebuke from Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

"We reject their aggression," President Maduro told supporters at a rally the socialist-led government held at the presidential palace. "They were defeated in the OAS and now they want revenge."

The U.S. had strongly objected to a declaration of solidarity for Venezuela issued by the Organization of American States on Friday night.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-venezuela-concocting-bogus-stories-232842054.html

---

Looks like Biden is a right-wing fascist and not a true Democrat, either.

[Cha]

1. Bullshit on Vice President Joe Biden not be a "true Democrat, either".

[reddread]

9. Clarence Thomas n/t

[24601]

10. Re-read the story. VP Biden didn't accuse Venezuela of concocting Clarence Thomas, or anyone

else in the Judiciary.

[delrem]

11. You are responding to what the right-wing calls "sarcasm",

in these post-Orwellian, post-9/11 days.

The gist of the "sarcasm" is a message that one should be "allowed", so to speak, to agree with Biden in this regard, and not be called "fascist" in return. Well, VP Biden does have a wondrous smile.

On the other hand, through VP Biden the US is using a heavy rhetorical hand to bitch-slap Venezuela's newly elected gov't and to favor a group that includes supporters of previous coup attempts, and the USA is *not* acknowledging earlier US interventions as e.g. the aborted 2002 coup.

So OK, I can't call those who agree with Biden "fascists", but I can rightly call them "disingenuous".

[Zorro]

14. Would you call those who agree with Biden "right-wing"?

[delrem]

16. Why would I do that?

They could have two crippled "wings", for all I know, or two perfectly functioning wings working in tandem to span the skies.
Whatever that means according as your "right-wing" metaphor.
One thing for certain: neither question or rational answer could have any bearing whatsoever on what VP Biden actually said.

[Zorro]

17. Then perhaps you can clarify who you define as "right-wing"

as in "You are responding to what the right-wing calls "sarcasm"".

[delrem]

19. Why should I do that?

Don't you recognize the sarcasm?
How can you *not* see that anti-Bolivarian rhetoric of that import, from VP Biden no less, is "right-wing" according as Latin American politics?

Are you honestly, sincerely and from the heart, trying to suggest that VP Biden is expressing anything akin to a "leftist sentiment" here -- in terms of the Latin American left, of course (and not some BS "Hillary is a progressive because progressives have a big tent" type line).

I've gotta admit that I'm laughing at your ridiculously ad hominem line of enquiry!

[Zorro]

22. Laugh away

I think everyone recognizes your lame attempt to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[delrem]

23. Then I restate:

I said

"You are responding to what the right-wing calls "sarcasm",

in these post-Orwellian, post-9/11 days.

The gist of the "sarcasm" is a message that one should be "allowed", so to speak, to agree with Biden in this regard, and not be called "fascist" in return. Well, VP Biden does have a wondrous smile.

On the other hand, through VP Biden the US is using a heavy rhetorical hand to bitch-slap Venezuela's newly elected gov't and to favor a group that includes supporters of previous coup attempts, and the USA is *not* acknowledging earlier US interventions as e.g. the aborted 2002 coup.

So OK, I can't call those who agree with Biden "fascists", but I can rightly call them "disingenuous"."

You might have a big problem with that, but I still call those who agree with VP Biden disingenous.

[joshcryer]

15. Sarcasm is the best way to avoid pointless deflection.

The insults, btw, tend to come from the authoritarian left, more than anything.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. It's not just "supporters of previous coup attempts" it's the old millionaire political class.

[delrem]

36. A rather small colony, less than .01% to have such a large clan of supporters on DU!

[MADem]

18. I think there's a missing sarcasm tag, there...! nt

[BeyondGeography]

2. Call me a cultist

But I'm going with Joe on this one. Maduro isn't even Chavez Lite.

[proudretiredvet]

5. [phone]

[MADem]

21. Over a thousand have been arrested, many tortured and denied access to legal aid.

That's, of course, if you believe those "fascists" at the United Nations...

The office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights said a group of its experts have asked Venezuela to respond to “allegations of arbitrary detention and excessive use of force” against protesters and journalists.

“We are deeply disturbed by the allegations of multiple cases of arbitrary detention of protesters,” according to a statement posted on the office’s website. “Some were reportedly beaten -- and in some cases severely tortured -- by security forces, taken to military facilities, kept in incommunicado detention, and denied access to legal assistance.”

[delrem]

25. I don't understand.

You provided a link to something entirely different than suggested by your title.

Your link
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-07/maduro-rejects-oas-role-as-venezuelans-host-rival-marches.html

"Maduro Rejects OAS Role as Venezuelans Host Rival Marches

...
‘Create Chaos’

“We want to create chaos, to bring things to a complete stop,” protesting student Luis Miranda, 20, said. “If we set up barricades in every state of the country, we can stop people from moving around and we can achieve a national strike.”

The office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights said a group of its experts have asked Venezuela to respond to “allegations of arbitrary detention and excessive use of force” against protesters and journalists.

“We are deeply disturbed by the allegations of multiple cases of arbitrary detention of protesters,” according to a statement posted on the office’s website. “Some were reportedly beaten -- and in some cases severely tortured -- by security forces, taken to military facilities, kept in incommunicado detention, and denied access to legal assistance.”

Maduro earlier this week rejected any mediation effort by the OAS after Panama President Ricardo Martinelli called for the Washington-based organization to discuss the crisis. On March 5, Maduro retaliated by cutting diplomatic and commercial ties with the Central American nation, saying he wouldn’t “accept anyone conspiring against our country.”

[MADem]

30. What "title?" This is not my thread.

I provided a point of information, and some quoted material--which I see you requoted again in your cut/paste--to support what I said.

The students have called for a three day national strike. This isn't a secret; I've posted this in days past. They've got flyers up all over the web about it. Here's one:



Here's a flyer about the detentions/killings/torture:



This is interesting, I think (the note says "Don't Give Up&quot :



And look at the "huge" (cough) crowd at Maduro's speech that was televised the other day:

&feature=share&app=desktop

[delrem]

34. I see, madem, that you are very invested in the Venezuelan counter-revolution.

This is perfectly consistent with how I understand you, madem, on all issues about which you post. It matters not, you consistently hot-rod the MIC, NASA, and (IMO) the very worst of a "western civilization" that is (thank the great koot hoomi!) on the decline.

In this case you won't get your putsch, madem. The broad base of Venezuelan voters, who recently voted Maduro into power, haven't come out to join with you and your counter-revolutionary spirit.

[MADem]

40. You need to put the "putsch" word away. You clearly do not understand the issues,

and instead are viewing the situation in a cartoonish way which is typical of those who are clueless about the reality on the ground.

This isn't about government overthrow. This is about objection to government INCOMPETENCE. The odds are that the Bolivarians will stay in power no matter what happens; and that's fine, so long as a COMPETENT Bolivarian who pays the bills, keeps the light and water running, keeps the shelves stocked, and lowers the seventy-murders-a-day crime rate is put in charge. Diosdado Cabello wants the gig, I'm sure--and he was Chavez's best friend.

Grow up and stop falsely characterizing people. It's rude and disruptive.

[delrem]

43. I see, madem, that you have the definitive account of "what it is about".

And you care *so* deeply for the future of the democratic left-wing in Venezuela, for the future of the Bolivarian revolution - that you choose to be totally oblivious of putsch heavy recent Venezuelan and Latin American history.

And hey, I call it as I see it when .01% backed "demonstrators" act to stall and dismantle the entire Venezuelan economy, as their plan B after once again losing elections to the left-wing Bolivarian base.

[EX500rider]

47. NASA?!?!?!? The horror..... lol n/t

[EX500rider]

48. "The broad base of Venezuelan voters"

By "broad base", it that the just over 50% he got? Sounds like half the country voted for somebody else.

[delrem]

62. It's a base that's consistently voted in the Bolivarian left. Much to your dismay.

[EX500rider]

64. "Much to your dismay." Ohhh!! A mind reader!!! WOW! What color am i thinking of?

[delrem]

69. Nope, not a mind reader. Just someone who can read the obvious.

[EX500rider]

71. If you say so..

[snooper2]

93. You see the skies over Caracas today?

[EX500rider]

65. I assume you mean the steadily shrinking base as they won by 1% last time...

.....or was it 1.47%? lol

[delrem]

72. They won by a bigger margin than Obama.

But for gawdsake, quit expressing your dismay at their win, EX500rider. Unless you want "mind readers" to come along and laugh at you for it.

[EX500rider]

73. "quit expressing your dismay" point to my dismay.....I'll wait

[MADem]

92. Don't be too hard on him.

He not only gets the basic facts wrong, he can't do math, either. He's also an amateurish goader/baiter. Much too obvious--the blatant hectoring nature of his posts gives him away.

He can spell "putsch" though--points if you can get him to say it...! It's his favorite word!

[quadrature]

3. where is Obama on this?.....nt

[karynnj]

4. Do you seriously think the VP would put out a statement that is NOT administration policy? nt

[proudretiredvet]

6. Would Joe Biden speak without thinking.....

LOL.. Yes. He has a history of it. I think that is when he is at his best.

[karynnj]

42. He is FAR less a loose cannon than media and right wing powers want him to be seen

On this, his comments mirror those of the administration. If I had to characterize them, I would say that they have been very cautious - with the only strong statement being that specific allegations are baseless.

[quadrature]

13. better way to put it ---> throw a bowl of spaghetti at the wall..

see what sticks

[L0oniX]

7. Venezuela probably learned that from us.

[another_liberal]

8. That is what happens when your government gets caught organizing a series of coups . . .

People can end up being quite willing to believe you might just be doing it again.

See how that works, Mr. Vice President?

[Kolesar]

20. What are you saying?

PUt a finer point on it, please.

[another_liberal]

27. When a country, like our country, gets the reputation it has . . .

It really has no grounds to complain if people around the World are quick to believe it is acting like it has acted before.

In other words, if you don't want your country accused of causing a coup, then make goddamn sure your country doesn't cause any goddamned coups in the first place!

[Zorro]

28. So do you agree with Maduro's assertion that the US is behind the protests?

[another_liberal]

29. Who knows for certain?

The fact does remain, though, that we have encouraged, financed and even organized such coups many times before, in many different lands all around the World.

As one South American leader recently said: The only country in the World which does not have to fear a coup is the United States, because there is no U. S. embassy there to organize one.

[delrem]

37. Unfortunately,

it's somewhat heartbreaking to see someone try to explain history to the history-proof. To a whole host of young-bloods who go forth with an attitude "look forward, not back" and who think historical fact has a "bias".

[another_liberal]

38. Very few hours of any kind of history . . .

Last edited Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

It is a sad fact that very few hours study in any kind of history are required of most students in American Universities. Many receive their degrees with as little as one, three credit hour history class, and that does not even have to be on American history. How can they possibly judge the truth of what is told them about the things happening in our World?

Those who don't go on to higher education can't be expected to understand much at all. The American people, generally, are quite easy prey for those who wish to exploit their ignorance of history.

[reddread]

41. good point

and that ignorance doesnt come cheaply, either.
No context or honest discussion to speak of in the MSM for years now.
plenty of hardline revisionism and vacuous silence, as we saw last November, dished out with shovels
burying the Kennedy assassination after 50 years.
I might not love getting older, but I would never want to be as young and victimized
by contemporary American culture and lack the perspective and experience of my years.
disappointing as things may turn out, at least I know enough to catch a few clues.
kids these days...
GET OFF OF MY LAWN!

[another_liberal]

81. I wouldn't necessarily say young people today are more ignorant than their parents were . . .

On the other hand, our billionaire-controlled media is far more uniform and pervasive, not to mention manipulative, than it ever was in the past.

[reddread]

83. seeing is believing, and living through it far more formative than a google search

the pivotal issues of the fairly recent past barely touch the consciousness of people born after the fact.
Its not ignorance born of stupidity or laziness, its the cold hard barrier of times passage that stands between
significant history and youths eternal spring.

[EX500rider]

53. And it could be some people don't hold this administration responsible for My Lai or Iran Flt665 or.

...Chile, or other things that happened before this administration. heck i don't even blame then for stuff BUSH DID!!! OMG!!! lol

[delrem]

59. Look forward, not back, EX500rider. That's the name of the game.

aka: "launder that atrocity, USA style"

[EX500rider]

63. So all US administrations are interchangeable going back to the 50's?

So why bother to vote?

[EX500rider]

51. What happened under different administrations and during the cold war=N/A

[another_liberal]

82. The Cold War?

Was that in 2009?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/world/americas/29honduras.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Was the Cold War in 2013?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/world/middleeast/egypt.html?pagewanted=all

And don't even try to say we weren't behind both of these removals of democratically elected governments. When the U. S. wastes no time in recognizing an obvious coup's ringleaders as the legitimate new government of their country, we were clearly in on the coup.

[EX500rider]

84. "wastes no time in recognizing an obvious coup's ringleaders as the legitimate new government..

..... we were clearly in on the coup."

No that is not clear. If someone they liked better got in office, they might do that and have nothing to do with it. And yes, I know the State Dept/Embassy met with blah blah at some point so WE MUST BE INVOLVED!! Sorry, that is not proof.

[another_liberal]

85. In both of these cases, to mention only two since the Cold War . . .

Democratically elected governments were overthrown by military juntas, military juntas we were supporting before the coups, and which we continued to support after the coups. They had our approval and backing or they would have never dared to act.

Let's not pretend to be naive, shall we?

[EX500rider]

87. Approving and orchestrating 2 different things

[another_liberal]

88. I'm sure the evidence is there that "ochestrating" most certainly did occur.

It may take a decade or two to come into the public record, but don't bet against it being there.

[EX500rider]

89. We shall see i suppose.

[EX500rider]

86. Except your Honduras link says this:

"Later Sunday the Honduran Congress voted him out of office, replacing him with the president of Congress, Roberto Micheletti.
The military offered no public explanation for its actions, but the Supreme Court issued a statement saying that the military had acted to defend the law against “those who had publicly spoken out and acted against the Constitution’s provisions.”
Leaders across the hemisphere, however, denounced the coup, which American officials on Sunday said they had been working for several days to avert."

[Ash_F]

12. The US will have to spend the next half-century repairing its image

Better get started on that, Joe.

[MyNameGoesHere]

24. Glad the protesters are peaceful and angelic.

On Sunday afternoon in eastern Caracas, about 100 demonstrators threw rocks at police, who responded with tear gas and water cannon. Some protesters tore a bus kiosk from the sidewalk and set it ablaze, providing authorities with an opportunity to repeat on state media its accusation that anti-government activists are vandals.

They seem like perfect people, nothing wrong here.

[MADem]

31. Over a thousand have been arrested, many have been tortured and denied access to legal aid.

Of the 23 people who have been killed, all but two have been on the protesters' side.

If the national guard/police/colectivos wouldn't halt peaceful marches they wouldn't have any difficulty from the students, the mother's group, or other protesters.

Kind of hard to feel sorry for unarmed students up against the national guard in riot gear, riding in Chinese APCs, shooting people in the streets ... is that what you're seriously saying?

[delrem]

35. There have been allegations.

There have been those on the internet who spread the allegations.

You're not gonna get your putsch, madem. SORRY!!!

[MADem]

39. If your answer is to call the deaths and detentions and abuse "allegations"

then you are in deep denial.

Who wants a "putsch?" That kind of foolishness is the product of a mind that truly doesn't understand what people are complaining about in VZ.

Talk about partisan! Stand over there and call college--and now high school--kids "fascists!" Yeah, that's the ticket.....

[delrem]

44. I believe you recently claimed that the Venezuelan poor were demonstrating.

That one of your right-wing sources found an example to push.

You won't get your putsch, madem - the democratic left just won yet another election, and you're piss out of luck.

[MADem]

45. When you keep repeating the same word, over and over again, like a

toddler who has learned a swear, I know I've bested you in debate, particularly when you can't even get the basic points straight.

Here's that "right wing source" I quoted.

Venezuela's poor join protests as turmoil grips Chávez's revolution

The poor neighbourhood of Petare in western Caracas is not an obvious hotbed of anti-government sentiment. In the past, its residents have been among the major beneficiaries of Venezuela's public health and education campaigns, and an economic policy that resulted in one of the sharpest falls in inequality in the world.

But as demonstrations sweep several major cities, even the people of Petare have taken to the streets to protest again surging inflation, alarming murder rates and shortages of essential commodities.

Jorge Farias, a self-employed motorcycle taxi driver, once voted for the late president Hugo Chávez, but this week he joined opposition rallies.

"This country can't stay like this for much longer. If it's not lack of food, it is the fear of being killed when you step out of your house to go to work", he said. "I would like to wake up without this fear," he added. "I have never seen this country in this state of total collapse. We are going from bad to worse, and we are losing faith".

"Ya esta bueno ya", is phrase which Venezuelans are hearing with increasing frequency. Roughly translated as "Enough already", the slogan captures a wide-spread sense of discontent and growing uncertainty over the country's future.

It's called The Guardian--Glenn Greenwald used to work for it; George Galloway loves it.

So, yeah--ya esta bueno ya.

Now run along.

[delrem]

46. Let me count: 1.... Jorge Farias.

That's massive support from the poor for the fascists who want to dismantle the Bolivarian revolution, and oust the democratically elected gov't. The fascist jokers that you support.

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1393168155.html

"1) No mention that those extreme sections of the right-wing who have called these demonstrations in Venezuela our wanting to oust the elected, constitutional government in the coverage (or the map) despite being called 'la Salida' (meaning 'the ousting'). Furthermore, they have a history of anti-democratic actions aimed at destabilising and removing the elected government, most notably the temporarily successful coup against Hugo Chavez in 2002.
2) No mention of the deaths stemming from the extreme elements of the opposition's violence, now including a government supporter motorcyclist who was decapitated this weekend (see http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10391 )
3) No mention of $5m US funding this year to these right-wing opposition groups, building on the $millions they have received over the lifetime of the Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro-led governments. "

eta:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/violent-protest-no-help-venezuela

"We deplore the wave of violence from minority and extremist sections of Venezuela's opposition, that left three dead, 60 injured and saw physical assaults on government institutions, including shots and Molotov cocktails attacks on the state TV channel and a state governor's residency (Jailed López tells his allies to keep fighting, 22 February). This followed a recently launched campaign by Venezuela's extreme right for La Salida (the ousting) of the government of President Maduro before his constitutional mandate ends in 2019. La Salida is led by extremist politicians Leopoldo López and María Corina Machado, who were both implicated in the 2002 coup in Venezuela. This is not the first time that the sections of the opposition have sought to oust the elected government by unconstitutional means, having lost at the ballot box.

We believe that while people in Venezuela have the right to protest – and that the Venezuelan constitution guarantees these and other democratic rights – this must be done peacefully. There is no justification for violent opposition to the elected government in Venezuela. We strongly support the statement of the Union of South American Nations that violence to seek to overthrow the elected, constitutional government is unacceptable. We join them in both condemning the wave of violence and in supporting calls for dialogue and peace.
Grahame Morris MP Chair, Labour Friends of Venezuela, Colin Burgon Chair, Venezuela Solidarity Campaign, Ken Livingstone, Tariq Ali, Billy Hayes CWU, Peter Hain MP, Professor Doreen Massey, Linton Kwesi Johnson, Sandra White MSP (SNP), Ken Loach, Professor Julia Buxton, John Pilger journalist & filmmaker
Bruce Kent peace campaigner
Dave Anderson MP Labour
Michael Connarty MP Labour
Richard Gott writer & journalist
Andy De La Tour actor
Paul Flynn MP Labour
Roger Godsiff MP Labour
Ian Lavery MP Labour
Elfyn Llwyd MP Plaid Cymru
John McDonnell MP Labour
Chris Williamson MP Labour
Mike Wood MP Labour
Baroness Gibson APPG on Latin America
Murad Qureshi London Assembly Member, Labour
Professor Julia Buxton academic & consultant
Dr Francisco Dominguez Head of Centre for Brazilian and Latin American Studies, Middlesex University
Tim Potter Barrister & Haldane Society"

eta:
http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/web/telesur/#!en/video/termina-cuando-saquemos-al-actual-gobierno-l-lopez
"It'll be over when we manage to remove those who are governing us" L. Lopez

[MADem]

49. Look, I just handed you MY source. My left wing source. I don't care about your crap.

I am not a "supporter" of Lopez, but nice try at trying to change the subject. I guess you're unclear about something else--Lopez has been in jail at Ramo Verde; Maduro put him there. He's not leading any marches, he's behind bars and has been for some time. So take your stale old quotes and put them where they might do some good.

You make it more apparent, with every post you make, that you don't have a grasp of what's actually going on in VZ--the "opposition" is made up of a number of factions; it's not a united front.

However, that doesn't matter, because those individual factions aren't running the show anymore. The students are. The middle class are. The poor are. The mothers of murdered children are. The medical workers are. Everyone who is sick and tired of the bullshit is part of this process.

And their priorities are bread-and-butter issues.

Like these doctors, tired of breaking the news about murdered kids to grieving parents, tired of digging bullets out of people, and tired of no medicines in the pharmacies and no anesthesia in the hospitals:





So get off the tired old yammering political bandwagon--no one gives a shit about that angle; they haven't for awhile.

They care about security and scarcity.







I support the efforts of the protesters to bring security, justice and an end to scarcity, inflation and murder in the streets to VZ. Got it?

So just step aside, stop dragging out stale, irrelevant foolishness, and go babble "Putsch-y, putsch-y, putsch-y!" at someone who buys what you're selling.

[delrem]

50. You won't be getting your putsch, madem - regardless of the wishes of V's fascist leaders.

And yes, your sources are right-wing as they get, even tho' they call the wannabe putsch leaders "moderates" and "centrists".

[MADem]

52. Awww, you mad, bro?

I'll alert the Guardian that they've achieved status as a right wing publication on delrem's putsch-y little list!

[delrem]

60. The Guardian published the right-wing swill, it didn't write it.

And you won't get your putsch, madem. Even as fired up for one as you are.

[MADem]

66. Awwww, you ARE mad, bro!!!

Putsch-y, putsch-y, Puuuu!

[delrem]

68. Nope, I'm just saying that you won't get your putsch, madem.

Regardless that your hero stated: "It'll be over when we manage to remove those who are governing us" L. Lopez

Not that I'd expect you to penetrate the subtlety of Lopez statement! You seem a bit too... emotional.

[MADem]

91. Yeah, you are! And you're projecting, too, Mister "Emotional."

You're playing the goad-n-bait game with language. Your use of the "putsch" word is one element, and your false and repeated insistence (in Nanny Nanny Boo Boo elementary school fashion) that I regard Lopez as a "hero" is the second element. What you're doing is rude and disruptive, but I'm not gonna alert on you because I think it's WAY better for people to see you for exactly what you are, there, skippy.

I've also got a bet going as to how many times I can get you to say "putsch." Don't let me down, now, sport!

Keep up the good work!

[EX500rider]

75. "And you won't get your putsch, madem. Even as fired up for one as you are"

I KNOW!! He's practically started another Bay of Pig's all by his/her lonesome!! BAD MADEM!!

[EX500rider]

56. Can you imagine the anti-govt uproar here if the US had shot & killed 220 protesters @ Occupy?

We'd be the biggest fascist police state ever....Venz., not so much apparently.

(Venz pop. 30 million/22 dead would be US 300 million/220 dead)

[MADem]

58. Heads would explode! I guess it's OKIYB!

OK if you're Bolivarian!

[EX500rider]

70. So you think a bunch of rich people are out at barricades throwing rocks and molotov's?

very unlikely.

[delrem]

74. You make no sense whatsoever.

[EX500rider]

76. Looking into a mirror are we?

[delrem]

79. So, you now rise to ikyabwai? Whatever your point might be, keep the laughs coming.

[EX500rider]

77. "I believe you recently claimed that the Venezuelan poor were demonstrating."

So if they aren't it must be rich people out rioting? LOL

[delrem]

78. You reduced yourself to nothing. Congrats.

[EX500rider]

80. Oh no!! Not nothing!!! Sorry, as Descates says: "Cogito ergo sum"

[delrem]

90. Rene Descartes, in Meditations on First Philosophy,

did not argue like this:
"So you think a bunch of rich people are out at barricades throwing rocks and molotov's?
very unlikely."
followed by:
""I believe you recently claimed that the Venezuelan poor were demonstrating."
So if they aren't it must be rich people out rioting? LOL"

There's considerable distance between Rene Descartes' arguments and just about anything seen on DU except perhaps in the Philosophy group.

In any case you make no argument and make no point - which is all I can say about your 'cogito'.

If there is a point to laughing at the idea that "the rich" could/couldn't-be be rioting, throwing rocks and molotovs, in Venezuela in early 2014 and just after elections reinstating the explicitly Bolivarian gov't, you haven't made it. In case you don't know, "Bolivarian" means the same as "progressive" does, to folk down there. Likewise in case you don't know, the rich have been known to hire their Pinkertons.

[EX500rider]

54. No, no, those kids are all NeoCon's is what i heard......LOL n/t

[MADem]

57. Tools of the Capitalist Pigs, doncha know!!

Of course, since there's no damn meat in the stores, if they ever found a capitalist--or any kind of-- pig they'd make bacon and sausage and pulled pork outta it!

[EX500rider]

61. All these are CIA fronts also:

I give you, the pro-oligarchic opposition!

Democratic Action
Acción Democrática Social democracy

A New Era
Un Nuevo Tiempo UNT Reformism

Independent Electoral Political Organization Committee
Comité de Organización Política Electoral Independiente COPEI Christian democracy

Justice First
Primero Justicia PJ Humanism

For Social Democracy
Por la Democracia Social PODEMOS Social democracy

Project Venezuela
Proyecto Venezuela PV Christian democracy

Communist Party of Venezuela
Partido Comunista de Venezuela PCV Communism

The Radical Cause
La Causa Radical LCR Labourism

Popular Will
Voluntad Popular VP Progressivism

Movement for Socialism
Movimiento al Socialismo MAS Socialism

Fearless People's Alliance
Alianza Bravo Pueblo ABP Social democracy

National Convergence
Convergencia Nacional CN Conservatism
Convergencia Nacional

[MADem]

67. And don't forget the doctors and medical professionals, and the mothers of the murdered!

All putsch-y capitalist pig-tools, every one of 'em!!! I know, because an "expert" on the subject who is stuck on that pee-word told me so! Right here, in this thread!

[EX500rider]

55. "There have been allegations."

You saying there haven't been any marchers shot or govt people arrested for it?
'Cause that's what Venz. says, but what do they know?

[RobertEarl]

26. Empire Strikes Back!

I wonder how much free beer and pizza we've been sending to those universities?

[jtuck004]

32. I like Joe, but how can you get mad at countries where citizens make fun of the NSA in email?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/opinion/have-a-nice-day-nsa.html?_r=0

...
But for now, we citizens have our own plan. It has become something of a joke among my friends in Brazil to, whenever you write a personal e-mail, include a few polite lines addressed to the agents of the N.S.A., wishing them a good day or a Happy Thanksgiving. Sometimes I’ll add a few extra explanations and footnotes about the contents of the message, summarizing it and clarifying some of the Portuguese words that could be difficult to translate.

Other people have gone so far as to send nonsensical e-mails just to confuse N.S.A. agents. For example: first use some key words to attract their surveillance filters, like “chemical brothers,” “chocolate bombs” or “stop holding my heart hostage, my emotions are like a blasting of fundamentalist explosion” (one of my personal favorites, inspired by an online sentence-generator designed to confound the N.S.A.).
...

**snort*