Report: CIA and FBI Helping Ukranian Government Quell Rebellion In East
Source: Agence France-Presse
By Agence France-Presse
Sunday, May 4, 2014 9:19 EDT
Dozens of specialists from the US Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation are advising the Ukrainian government, a German newspaper reported Sunday.
Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure.
It said the agents were not directly involved in fighting with pro-Russian militants. "Their activity is limited to the capital Kiev," the paper said.
The FBI agents are also helping the Kiev government fight organised crime, it added.
Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/04/report-cia-and-fbi-helping-ukranian-government-quell-rebellion-in-east/
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ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)
pscot
(21,024 posts)
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
Autumn
(45,081 posts)
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)
"And you can quote me on that!"
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Last edited Sun May 4, 2014, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)
Fighting human trafficking in the US.
Solving financial crimes in the US.
Stopping Civil Rights violators in the US.
You know what the CIA could be doing right now?
Being disbanded.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)leaks on Americans sending text messages about where they're going for Cinco de Mayo for them to farm out to the CIA.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)if they help Ukraine fight organized crime there. Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have a horrible organized crime problem. Putin has scaled it back a little in Russia, but it's almost too big to fight, especially with the corruption in those countries. A good deal of human traffickers get their women (especially for prostitutes) from Eastern Europe. I wish the Ukraine police and government a lot of success with their efforts. Make jokes all you want, but the FBI helping them establish a security system will help the country later. Read up on the Russian who is on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List. These people are a whole new level of evil. The Italian mafia types are amateurs compared to these guys.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)the russian govt became so wealthy in such a short amount of time.
independentpiney
(1,510 posts)is deafening.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)First, exactly what is it you would like us to us to say?
Second, are you implying that there are "pro Russians" here on DU? Now that's pretty hard to imagine.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)That Russia has done no wrong here at all and dismisses anything that is pointed out to them.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Most of what is being posted just makes sense to get posted.
The entrenched view of events is already well known and available. What looks to some like "pro-Russia" is simply people providing the other "conveniently overlooked" facts, views, culture, history.
That might make it look to someone who is entrenched in a single viewpoint like those people are all pro-Russia, when it is really an exercise in investigating to find the true course of events, intellectual honesty, and engaging empathy (something we seem to have a lot of trouble with).
I don't think Putin is "the good guy" (though I do think his reactions have some basis in culture and history that our narrative tends to prefer to not engage in), but why would I need to point that out when that is expressed everywhere including here and really doesn't need to be covered?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)but most know who they are. They only post one side and use language to make one side evil and the other side can do no wrong.
When given evidence of Russian military driving Russian military vehicles and breaking all of the signed agreements, these people would not believe it. When Putin finally admitted it those people still said Russia never had troops there.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...in assuming that those who slander the efforts of the liberal Western democracies - the free world - to help a struggling republic towards an authentic democracy by, for instance, sponsoring human rights film festivals through NGOs such as the National Endowment for Democracy, have a balanced, neutral, fair point of view. Those who slander the EU for "imposing austerity" and accuse the free world of initiating a campaign of economic rape and pillage, those who are willing to equivocate between Putin's fake Potemkin EU (the Eurasian Union) and the liberal Western democracies of the European Union are as likely to be neutral towards Russia as they are likely to openly state that they are pro-Russia.
independentpiney
(1,510 posts)First- Say whatever you want, and hopefully it will have some grounding in the regions history.
Second- not "pro- Russian" as such, but able to understand Russia's geopolitical concern with having a Ukrainian government next door dominated by West Ukrainians who are not only Western leaning, but in some cases actually anti Russian to the extent of considering the Ukrainian SS division national heros.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... did that and will continue to do so.
Second, understanding another country's geopolitical concerns and interests is not to be equivocated with misunderstanding, or worse, misrepresenting your own country's geopolitical concerns and interests, dismissing them, and slandering your country and your allies by imputing to them nefarious intentions. If not "outspoken" we certainly do seem to have some "soft spoken" pro-Russian DUers.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)has no people helping the Protesters in the East. BOTH sides are doing it. All of those uniformed Russian military that showed up in Crimea with no identifying patches and wearing masks driving Russian vehicles. No Russian involvement there. Same is happening in the East now. If the Kiev government retakes and gets more prisoners, Do not be surprised if some are Russian, Some have already showed passports and papers and are from Russia.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)If the Russians are doing it, that's not an excuse for the U.S. to do it. In fact, it's the opposite. If the U.S. wants to object to the Russian action, then the last thing they should be doing is to mirror it.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Just allow the slow covert takeover of a sovereign government to go on. At least the West of Ukraine is allowed many outlets on coverage of the crisis. The East not so much, Just Russian stations and journalists are routinely abducted and held as well as anyone who seems to disagree with Russia.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)You poor innocent soul..
Of course they don't need to intimidate (most) of our media outlets. But here is what happens if you show something they don't want you to show.
Svoboda is IN CHARGE of media, I mean in charge, they are in the executive.
This is Svoboda leaders keeping tabs on their media.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)But not nearly to the extent in the East. Show me one like that and there are dozens in the East. Not to mention the abductions, hostage taking and outright murders and assassination attempts
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Should we use a vinaigrette or thousand Island to make it tasty?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It may even make an important point -- not without captions, attributions, contexts, etc.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)When you want to derail a thread you fill it with either off topic tangents or in this case a half dozen topic less pictures.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thread%20Jacking
Surprised there wasn't a cat picture or two in there.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)The only effective objection to the Russian action is counter action, to provide material aid and to punish the malefactors for their infractions. Using the CIA to provide assistance and escalating sanctions against Russia's oligarchs, and, if need be, economic sectors, is the proper response.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It is a criminal organization that easily matches Putin in terms of the crimes committed worldwide.
The role of the U.S. government would not be to provide "counter action" to Russian machinations. That would imply the U.S. government should be involved in every conflict and every issue everywhere in the world.
The U.S. government's only legitimate role is to enact the will of We the People. It is not for a group of geostrategists to decide our "interests" (inevitably: the interests of their class) on our behalf, without a democratic and public debate. When were we asked if we wanted a secret CIA-State Department action to help overthrow the government of Ukraine? When were we asked if we should be allied with Ukrainian ethno-nationalists who want to deprive ethnic Russians of their equal rights in the Ukrainian state?
In this case, of course, the U.S. government is not providing "counter action." It participated in instigating a coup d'etat against the democratic government of the Ukraine. It's the Russian side that has engaged in counter action.
Who is putting sanctions on the U.S. oligarchs? That is what Americans should be interested in, since it's not the Russian oligarchs who stole hundreds of billions of dollars from Americans and got away with it. The Russian oligarchs are very bad guys, but it's for Russians to overthrow them. We have an equivalent problem here with our own oligarchs. The U.S. government let Wall Street rape and pillage the planet (with millions of real victims - famines and many other horrors included) and then rewarded the Wall Street criminals. If the U.S. govt wants to talk about distant Russian oligarchs, it should first gain moral standing -- by rounding up the American oligarchs, instead of letting them run this country.
We have higher priorities than instigating and getting involved in a Ukrainian quagmire. That's realism.
The actual "Sunday School" is the one run by fundamentalists of aggressive foreign policy, who would squander our energies and wealth on yet another foreign involvement that messes up real interests of the American 99% and benefits only a tiny class in the U.S.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... that was my point. I didn't read past your assertion that it is a criminal organization. It is no more criminal than our military. And no less necessary.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Our precious CIA, a criminal organization? Oh noes! Why, just because they've murdered many thousands around the world and in the process created all the future enemies that our precious military "defends" against? Saddam, Osama, Hekmatyar... all former assets. Largely became what they were thanks to CIA.
What are these groups necessary for? To make sure we keep spending a trillion dollars a year on maintaining a global empire that objectively does nothing to defend Americans, but actually causes most of the foreign threats they perceive?
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...the absence of thought. On second thought, the absence of thought IS a thought crime. Lucky, it's one of those crimes in which the perpetrator is the victim.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)most of Central America, and a host of other nations subjected to at times near-genocidal violence from the U.S. state seem to be absent from your thinking, indeed.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Both countries use tactics to engage their interests that are behind the scenes in many ways, because that is the well established protocol (It would be nice to change it at some point).
independentpiney
(1,510 posts)And while I don't condone that. it makes more sense considering both the ethnic Russian population and the not insubstantial amount of ethnic eastern Ukrainians who prefer to remain in the Russian sphere. Not to mention it's much closer to Russia than to the United States,don't take my word. check a map. Crimea should have never been made a part of Ukraine to begin with. That was the doing of Nikita Sergeyevich Kruschev and the Supreme Soviet in the 1950's as a bureaucratic streamlining
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)The forced relocation of the ethnic population from Crimea and the moving in of Russians after WWII. Other little facts that are often forgotten.
independentpiney
(1,510 posts)long before Stalins deportations, and was not merely a matter of importing Russians, but of forcing Russian language and cultural norms on the various existing ethnic groups, similar to the Magyarization of ethnic minorities within the Hungarian empire. The oft-mentioned Crimean Tatars were neither the majority ethnic group by the early 20th century nor were they the indigenous Crimeans, having arrived as invaders and slavers in either the 14th or 15th century.
daleo
(21,317 posts)It is even the same century -1800s. And let's not forget the spread of slavery went on in North America as well.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)They have been walking back their own extremist rhetoric and support.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)in the form of surface-to-air missiles to shoot down helicopters, in the form of actual Russian military out of uniform, in the form of thugs and assassins and experts on destroying democracy as Putin has done in Russia.
We are not "anti-Russian" we are anti-dictatorship, pro-human-rights, anti-Putin
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)vocal about it. Also, being anti-Russian needs to be broken down to anti-Russian government, anti-Russian people or anti-Putin. I am glad that the FBI and CIA are helping Ukraine create a security structure. The difference between us and Russia is that our announcement is in the papers.
The current head of the FBI seems to be very morally centered and I believe he would blow the whistle if we were doing something wrong (the way he refused to sign the authorization to continue the NSA spying under the old Bush rules, when he testified before Congress that he thought the attorney general firings were politically motivated, and prosecuted corrupt Republicans and Democrats.) He also assigned his good friend and former co-counsel to the investigation into the leak of Valarie Plame's identity. The current head of the FBI, James Comey, also prosecuted the Gambino crime family, ImClone, he was the lead prosecutor in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing case in Saudi Arabia, prosecuted Adelphia Communications and got 15 yrs for the CEO and much more. He has experience with organized crime, terrorists, and bankers. If Ukraine can get those under control their future is bright.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)pretty rare on this subject
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)know it.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Fortunately, our media is allowed to talk about these things, and usually no one goes to the gulag (not always true, of course).
But to be sure, they are there.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)now what Orwell referred to as The Ministry of Truth. If they are there they are within circles of power where levers are pulled. Kind of surprising the CIA would be there now. No telling how many covers Ed Snowden has blown. Well, now having considered the Header story, I think this is more media baloney.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)from BBC and certain people here who seem to pick out good news sites. Some are near professional in their research.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,315 posts)He said Russia was taking "offensive counter-intelligence and intelligence measures" to blunt Western efforts to "weaken Russian influence in a region that is of vital importance", Interfax reported.
The report indicated Malevany had given no details about the measures, but the remarks could increase Western concerns that Moscow may have designs on eastern Ukraine after annexing the Crimea region, a move that has caused the biggest crisis in East-West relations since the Cold War.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/28/uk-ukraine-crisis-russia-security-idUKBREA2R0QZ20140328
That was over a month ago, before these well-armed Russian speakers took over all those government buildings in the east.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)yesterday. Doesn't speak much for covert.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,315 posts)PosterChild
(1,307 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)But the damage of nonstop Russian propaganda will have the locals terrified of the Army. It is also much easier the take an objective but very hard to keep it.
UTUSN
(70,691 posts)Igel
(35,300 posts)However, a number of those arrested and detained in the East have had criminal records. And a suspicious number of attorneys general offices have been taken over. Some abandoned quickly with files destroyed.
Sometimes the cause is fairly quickly learned. Earlier today (US time, so yesterday, Ukr time) one was taken over for the purpose of disposing of the files of those that had been detained and arrested in previous weeks. In case the insurrection fails, they don't want the case files to be around. (It's like a metal plant that was sort of taken over but not quite; one of the demands was a signed statement from management that those involved in various activities not be fired. Like such a statement made under duress would amount to much.)
For good or for bad, Ukraine has a serious corruption problem. And it's highly likely that a number of those who were involved with Russia-related corruption in the East are going to support siding with Russia and not with the erstwhile anti-corruption folk in the West. If they really are all that anti-corruption.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)They are corruption. They are a political police who have made up dozens of bullshit cases to round up political activists, or to fool a few Muslim marks into "terrorist" stings.
The FBI should be rounding up the criminals of Wall Street. It lacks the resources for that, but apparently has some resources to go teach Ukrainians how to do things right.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)I guess if you get all your news from the boob tube...
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)will have problems until they can make a dent in the crime/corruption problem. I read a paper from Chatham House on asset raiders in Russia/Ukraine and it was very eye-opening. Putin has been able to marginally decrease the practice but even he can't stop it. Organized crime or regular criminals decide they want someone's business. They basically seize the business using corrupt judges and local magistrates filing court cases and the like against the owner. Eventually, the take over ownership of the business through quasi-legal means. Yanukovych appeared to be doing that through his son. That or something similar. Look at how many people sold their businesses to his son at very low prices. From what I understand, it was under threat of getting the business through the courts that led them to sell cheaply.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Since the FBI actively facilitates corruption here, and has done nothing to stop the oligarchs of Wall Street from plundering and burning the economy with millions of victims as they enrich themselves, it has no standing to be running (or advising) the law enforcement show in any other country.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The biggest financial fraud in history was executed by the Wall Street banks and their favored clients from 2002-2008, causing a crash that has cost literally millions of lives (not just jobs). The suffering is immeasurable. The point was to enrich a handful of motherfuckers who were then bailed out to the tune of trillions. When they are sanctioned, then the FBI might politely request - in public - to be of service to other countries.
Secret policy and covert actions are the opposite of democracy. We need an American Spring, then afterward we might have moral standing to urge democracy on others.
Of course, what they're doing in Ukraine is to help a few of the oligarchs against some of the other oligarchs. Nothing more. Disgusting. That's reality.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Last edited Mon May 5, 2014, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)
The FBI Has Been Secretly Fighting Alongside The US Military In Iraq And Afghanistan
The Federal Bureau of Investigation formed a little-known alliance with the military's secretive Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, putting agents on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan, Adam Goldman and Julie Tate report in The Washington Post.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Taking down leaders we don't like, installing puppets we do like, suppressing rebellions against the newly imposed "democracy".... it's a well-oiled propaganda machine.
King_Rat
(26 posts)CIA/OSS has supported the Bandera-istas since the beginning.
http://iwpchi.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/oss_plans_tipoff_bandera_to_avoid_capture_by_ussr.pdf
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
EmilyAnne
(2,769 posts)Odessa was a disaster.
If the Ukrainian government can't rein this sort of thing in and can't offer security to its citizens, then there is going to be one disaster after another.
The fog of war is getting thicker and thicker.
Tackling corruption will be a big part of it.
The police are a major player in the organized criminal system in both Russia and Ukraine.
They are fearful of Ukrainian plans to fight corruption.
They are paid so poorly that living without bribes and favors will seem impossible.
They will need reassurances and substantial raises. More likely they will have to be replaced, as as happened so many times in parts of Mexico when the corruption and reliance on bribes is seen as too entrenched to resolve.
Then, angry and displaced, they regroup and become paramilitary. Once again, look at parts of Mexico.
Its really such a lose - lose situation when it comes to tackling corrupt security forces.
