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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 10:59 PM Mar 2015

The Demonisation Of Russia Risks Paving The Way For War

Politicians and the media are using Vladimir Putin and Ukraine to justify military expansionism. It’s dangerous folly


On the ground, it has meant the rise of Ukrainian fascist militias such as the Azov battalion, now preparing to ‘defend’ Mariupol from its own people. Photograph: Alexander Khudoteply/AFP/Getty Images

Wednesday 4 March 2015 15.02 EST
Seumas Milne

A quarter of a century after the end of the cold war, the “Russian threat” is unmistakably back. Vladimir Putin, Britain’s defence secretary Michael Fallon declares, is as great a danger to Europe as “Islamic State”. There may be no ideological confrontation, and Russia may be a shadow of its Soviet predecessor, but the anti-Russian drumbeat has now reached fever pitch.

And much more than in Soviet times, the campaign is personal. It’s all about Putin. The Russian president is an expansionist dictator who has launched a “shameless aggression”. He is the epitome of “political depravity”, “carving up” his neighbours as he crushes dissent at home, and routinely is compared to Hitler. Putin has now become a cartoon villain and Russia the target of almost uniformly belligerent propaganda across the western media. Anyone who questions the dominant narrative on Ukraine – from last year’s overthrow of the elected president and the role of Ukrainian far right to war crimes carried out by Kiev’s forces – is dismissed as a Kremlin dupe.

That has been ratcheted up still further with the murder of the opposition politician Boris Nemtsov. The Russian president has, of course, been blamed for the killing, though that makes little sense. Nemtsov was a marginal figure whose role in the “catastroika” of the 1990s scarcely endeared him to ordinary Russians. Responsibility for an outrage that exposed the lack of security in the heart of Moscow and was certain to damage the president hardly seems likely to lie with Putin or his supporters.

But it’s certainly grist to the mill of those pushing military confrontation with Russia. Hundreds of US troops are arriving in Ukraine this week to bolster the Kiev regime’s war with Russian-backed rebels in the east. Not to be outdone, Britain is sending 75 military advisers of its own. As 20th-century history shows, the dispatch of military advisers is often how disastrous escalations start. They are also a direct violation of last month’s Minsk agreement, negotiated with France and Germany, that has at least achieved a temporary ceasefire and some pull-back of heavy weapons. Article 10 requires the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Ukraine.

But Nato’s hawks have got the bit between their teeth. Thousands of Nato troops have been sent to the Baltic states – the Atlantic alliance’s new frontline – untroubled by their indulgence of neo-Nazi parades and denial of minority ethnic rights. A string of American political leaders and generals are calling for the US to arm Kiev, from the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Martin Dempsey, to the new defence secretary, Ashton Carter. For the western military complex, the Ukraine conflict has the added attraction of creating new reasons to increase arms spending, as the US army’s General Raymond Odierno made clear when he complained this week about British defence cuts in the face of the “Russian threat”.

more...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/04/demonisation-russia-risks-paving-way-for-war
20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Demonisation Of Russia Risks Paving The Way For War (Original Post) Purveyor Mar 2015 OP
Milne has been a Kremlin ass-kisser his entire career. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #1
It took 2 1/2 hours before the first (and only) post trashing the author of the OP. Purveyor Mar 2015 #2
LOL. Predictable newthinking Mar 2015 #4
Well, when you post articles by noted Stalin apologists, whaddya expect? nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #10
so that's the goal in posting BS--to see who calls BS first? uhnope Mar 2015 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #3
Working rather well, sadly, someone here has already called for The Draft. djean111 Mar 2015 #5
No doubt, someone well over draft age Demeter Mar 2015 #6
Yup. With a lot of "inevitable!", "war has always been with us!" and "think of the current, tired djean111 Mar 2015 #7
Russia demonized herself when she annexed Crimea. Nitram Mar 2015 #8
Milne, cashing that check as usual... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #9
Here's his Bio/Background....which puts him closer to Bernie Sanders in views than a Propagandist KoKo Mar 2015 #13
Which is why he gets in bed with Sputnik and RT? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #16
Pawel Swidlicki and Dmitri Macmillen (Links in your post) BIO/BACKGROUND KoKo Mar 2015 #14
These links work for you? They're pretty easy to find with a simple search Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #17
One could argue other stand points. Igel Mar 2015 #12
I read you...but there is an alternative view that's equally worth viewing....imho n/t KoKo Mar 2015 #15
Risks? That is the whole point of doing it. yurbud Mar 2015 #18
How can anyone old enough to remember the Cold War be falling for this shit? yurbud Mar 2015 #19
That's why the PTB are doing it Doctor_J Mar 2015 #20
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. Milne has been a Kremlin ass-kisser his entire career.
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 01:24 AM
Mar 2015

Note that he calls for Ukraine to be deemed "neutral" under any negotiated settlement.

He purports to care about Ukrainian popular sovereignty when bemoaning the abdication of Yanukovych, but is awfully quick to do away with it by arguing it should not be allowed to choose its own allies. Kind of like how Netanyahu views a Palestinian state.

And he has likely never met someone from the Baltics if he thinks the following is true:

Instead of creating a common European security system including Russia, the US-dominated alliance has expanded up to the Russian border – insisting that is merely the sovereign choice of the states concerned. It clearly isn’t.


Which countries are most adamant about guarding against Russian aggression? Poland and the Baltics.
 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
2. It took 2 1/2 hours before the first (and only) post trashing the author of the OP.
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 02:11 AM
Mar 2015

Y'all are slipping!!!


newthinking

(3,982 posts)
4. LOL. Predictable
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:37 AM
Mar 2015

Amazing how some people are so caught up in cold war thinking that they have convinced themselves that anyone with a nuanced or researched position is some kind of commie. Reminds one of more conservative times. But with people who are democrats? Awkward....

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
11. so that's the goal in posting BS--to see who calls BS first?
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 02:30 PM
Mar 2015

not exactly "intelligent conversation."

What do you want someone to say about such an article, so soon after the assassination of Nemtsov, at this time when Russia is becoming full-on fascist? To praise the article for its nuance?

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
7. Yup. With a lot of "inevitable!", "war has always been with us!" and "think of the current, tired
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 07:51 AM
Mar 2015

soldiers!". So yeah, lets throw new bodies over, to die. And then we will probably read that old heinous "if we stop now, all the kids who have died will have died in vain! Must kill more kids!"

I think that today, while the powers that be could really give a shit about demonstrations - yay! We can use our new toys on real people! - at least the internet lets us know what is really going on. Both sides, ALL sides, have trolls, though. Russian, American, Middle Eastern - all sides have trolls and prevaricators.

And it is, as always, all about the fucking money. For people who would not dream of being soldiers. In the field, anyway.

Nitram

(22,800 posts)
8. Russia demonized herself when she annexed Crimea.
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 12:51 PM
Mar 2015

And when she started nibbling at Georgian and Ukrainian territory.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
9. Milne, cashing that check as usual...
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 01:23 PM
Mar 2015
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/573470606718550016
https://macmillen.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/milne/

When did a message board which used to be experts in calling out American propaganda get so oblivious to Russian propaganda? Or is this one of those enemy-of-an-enemy type of deals?

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
13. Here's his Bio/Background....which puts him closer to Bernie Sanders in views than a Propagandist
Sat Mar 7, 2015, 02:27 PM
Mar 2015
Seumas Milne (born 1958) is a British journalist and writer known for his left-wing views. A columnist and associate editor at The Guardian newspaper, he is author of a best-selling book[4] about the 1984–5 British miners' strike, The Enemy Within: The Secret War Against the Miners,[5] which focuses on the role of MI5 and Special Branch in the dispute.

Early life

The younger son of the former BBC Director General Alasdair Milne, Milne attended Winchester College and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Balliol College, Oxford, and Economics at Birkbeck College, London University. His sister, Kirsty, who died in July 2013, was an academic and former journalist.[6]

Career

Milne was the business manager of Straight Left, a monthly publication of an orthodox factional group within the Communist Party of Great Britain.[7] Milne worked as a staff journalist for three years on The Economist before joining The Guardian, where he has been a news reporter, Labour Correspondent (Europe), Labour Editor, and Comment Editor (for six years, 2001-7).
Milne has reported for The Guardian from the Middle East, Latin America, Russia, Eastern Europe and South Asia,[8] and also written for Le Monde Diplomatique[9] and the London Review of Books.[10]

Milne has been described as a "staunch socialist" in the Evening Standard.[3] Following an article he published in September 1995 in The Guardian, Milne "became characterised as a 'far-left activist' and member of the Socialist Workers Party".[1] Peter Popham argued that connecting Milne to the SWP was a "smear", but "there is no mistaking that Seumas is on the far left of the Labour Party, of which he has been a member for 20 years".[1] Milne served on the executive committee of the National Union of Journalists for ten years.


[1][8] He was joint winner of the 1999 What the Papers Say Scoop of the Year award.[11]
Views
On British politics


Milne was a strong critic of New Labour, in particular over its support for foreign wars, privatisation and low taxes on the wealthy.[12] He has argued that David Cameron's "makeover" of the Conservative Party is "skin deep"[13] and attacked the party for its links with "rightwing fringe" parties in eastern Europe[13] and support for "small state" public spending cuts.[14]

More at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
14. Pawel Swidlicki and Dmitri Macmillen (Links in your post) BIO/BACKGROUND
Sat Mar 7, 2015, 03:03 PM
Mar 2015
Pawel Swidlicki

Education
University of Nottingham
International Relations (MA)
2009 – 2010
University of Leicester
History (BA)
2003 – 2007

Research Analyst at Open Europe

London, Greater London, United Kingdom
Think Tanks

Experience
Research Analyst

http://openeurope.org.uk/contact/
September 2011 – Present (3 years 7 months)
Internship
Parliamentary Office of David Ward MP
May 2011 – September 2011 (5 months)
Account Maintenance and Modification Officer
September 2007 – September 2009 (2 years 1 month)

MORE AT:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pawel-swidlicki/66/985/559


------------------------------------


Dmitri Macmillen

Law Student seeking Graduate Opportunities

London, Greater London, United Kingdom

Previous

European Human Rights Advocacy Centre,
Russian Paralegals,
European Union Border Assistance Mission to Moldova and Ukraine

Education

Queen Mary, U. of London


MORE:
BIO/BACKGROUND AT:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dmitri-macmillen/80/158/808

Igel

(35,306 posts)
12. One could argue other stand points.
Sat Mar 7, 2015, 12:45 PM
Mar 2015

Not demonizing Russia or counteracting it did pave the way for war. The Donbas is instance #4 of this.

What it has prevented is *our* being at war with Russia, and the attitude seems to be that if it's not us at war then it's not really war. Only we matter--and Russia, of course. Lesser folk are 3/5 of a human being and, well, sacrificing them is the price we're willing to pay.

Rather like one of the DNR's early leading military figures, who co-published a piece after the Chechen war saying it was better to kill a thousand Chechen civilians than let a Russian soldier die. This was in defense of the near-destruction of Grozny and what can only be described as war crimes.

We live in fear of what might happen to us while sitting back and making snide comments to justify those that we fear. Bravery it isn't, nor even false bravado.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
20. That's why the PTB are doing it
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 10:15 AM
Mar 2015

More war = more tax money. If they can get their war on in Russia, the ME, AND south america, they can get rich, break the bank, and have lots more wounded vets to use as props at sporting events.

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