After I Lived in Norway, America Felt Backward. Here’s Why.

[Lodestar]

Young people who want to experience alternative models of government...visit Norway!

A crash course in social democracy.

Some years ago, I faced up to the futility of reporting truths about America’s disastrous wars, and so I left Afghanistan for another mountainous country far away. It was the polar opposite of Afghanistan: a peaceful, prosperous land where nearly everybody seemed to enjoy a good life, on the job and in the family.

It’s true that they didn’t work much–not by American standards, anyway. In the United States, full-time salaried workers supposedly laboring 40 hours a week actually average 49, with almost 20 percent clocking more than 60. These people, on the other hand, worked only about 37 hours a week, when they weren’t away on long paid vacations. At the end of the workday, about four in the afternoon (perhaps three during the summer), they had time to enjoy a hike in the forest, a swim with the kids, or a beer with friends—which helps explain why, unlike so many Americans, they are pleased with their jobs.

Often I was invited to go along. I found it refreshing to hike and ski in a country with no land mines, and to hang out in cafés unlikely to be bombed. Gradually, my war-zone jitters subsided and I settled into the slow, calm, pleasantly uneventful stream of life there.

Four years on, thinking I should settle down, I returned to the United States. It felt quite a lot like stepping back into that other violent, impoverished world, where anxiety runs high and people are quarrelsome. I had, in fact, come back to the flip side of Afghanistan and Iraq: to what America’s wars have done to America. Where I live now, in the homeland, there are not enough shelters for the homeless. Most people are either overworked or hurting for jobs; the housing is overpriced, the hospitals crowded and understaffed, the schools largely segregated and not so good. Opioid or heroin overdose is a popular form of death, and men in the street threaten women wearing hijabs. Did the American soldiers I covered in Afghanistan know they were fighting for this?

cont'd

http://www.thenation.com/article/after-i-lived-in-norway-america-felt-backward-heres-why/

Expat Blog About Life In Norway
http://www.lifeinnorway.net/

Check out Michael Moore's film about his visit to Norway
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017335448

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Half-Century Man]

1. One way to truly access your own house is to visit others.

[dreamnightwind]

2. That's an excellent article

Sad to see her give such short shrift to Sanders, she implies that he doesn't seem to know how their system works, when I think the truth is that he isn't trying to get us all the way to the Scandinavian model (with givernment owning a lot of the means of production) and he understands very well how the Scandinavian system works. Sanders is trying to shift our country in that direction, possibly enabling a future candidate in the Sanders vein to get us closer to the full Scandinavian system.

But otherwise, I found this to be a great read. Hard to choose the right excerpts, but here's some more:



So here’s the big difference: In Norway, capitalism serves the people. The government, elected by the people, sees to that. All eight of the parties that won parliamentary seats in the last national election—including the conservative Høyre party now leading the government—are committed to maintaining the welfare state. In the United States, however, neoliberal politics puts the foxes in charge of the henhouse, and capitalists have used the wealth generated by their enterprises (as well as financial and political manipulations) to capture the state and pluck the chickens.

They’ve done a masterful job of chewing up organized labor. Today, only 11 percent of American workers belong to a union. In Norway, that number is 52 percent; in Denmark, 67 percent; in Sweden, 70 percent. Thus, in the United States, oligarchs maximize their wealth and keep it, using the “democratically elected” government to shape policies and laws favorable to the interests of their foxy class. They bamboozle the people by insisting, as Hillary Clinton did at that debate, that all of us have the “freedom” to create a business in the “free” marketplace, which implies that being hard up is our own fault.

In the Nordic countries, on the other hand, democratically elected governments give their populations freedom from the market by using capitalism as a tool to benefit everyone. That liberates their people from the tyranny of the mighty profit motive that warps so many American lives, leaving them freer to follow their own dreams—to become poets or philosophers, bartenders or business owners, as they please.

[Baobab]

25. Sanders could not do that, it would cost too much for the government to buy the right to have health

care and education back from the rightful owners, the corporations.

Do you get what I am trying to tell you about whats been happening for 20 years?

Norway gets to have all that stuff because it existed BEFORE they joined the WTTO.

[groundloop]

3. WOW.... very telling article

This makes me question my sanity for staying in the US.

I just checked, and as of 2014 Norway has a per capita GDP that is 24% higher than the US - they must be doing something right. In fact I'd go out on a limb and say that we should be learning something from Norway - I'd guess that adequate vacation time and treating workers fairly would be a good place to start.

[Major Nikon]

9. The reason for their GDP is pretty simple

Norway owns vast oil reserves in the North Sea which are nationalized. They are sitting on top of a $810 billion fund for 5.1 million people.

[Baobab]

19. how dare they nationalize.. arent they in WTO?

WTO prohibits public things.

To join India had to give up their right to public education.

[Major Nikon]

20. I think the US would be a much better place had we nationalized our oil reserves at the same time

However, I don't believe we would compare to Norway even if we had.

[Baobab]

22. progressive (irreversible) liberalisation (privatization or disinvestment)

Google the underlying term

[Baobab]

26. No, they are doing something wrong, public education.

If you look at the statistics, the risk of a wealthy person becoming poor in Norway is far higher than in the US.

here is where they crossed the line.

The US is one of the very best and most secure places to be rich.

[RoccoR5955]

4. I have felt the same way

when I went to the Netherlands for the first time a couple of years ago.
From the amount of public transportation, to the attitude of people, when I came back to the US, I felt like I was coming home to a second world country.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. Because we are a second world country...

just look around. Education is shit. Infrastructure is shit. The justice system is right out of a banana republic (unless you can afford a decent lawyer).

[Baobab]

23. The US has the most profitable private education system in the world

India had to get rid of their public education system last year just to get a slice of it.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. Profit does not always equal good education. nt

[Baobab]

27. Exactly! thank you. Public Education is theft. Charity is theft.

They are the old way. The pre-Clintonian way.

Its a great education when it makes people rich.


Imagine if more countries were like Norway, stealing all those customers from business.

[awoke_in_2003]

28. Oh, and welcome to DU...

[Baobab]

29. Sarcasm

I'm trying to explain something important about our state religion. The one most people don't know about.

[awoke_in_2003]

33. Oh, I got it...

my sarcasm meter is usually well calibrated. I just notice that you joined on 25FEB (my birthday) and thought I would say welcome aboard.

[Baobab]

34. Thank you

I was trying to explain a backwards "amoral code" which is getting put in place of our human values in a way which is very difficult to get people to understand because we've been seriously misled. So very seriously.

Look at the paragraph I just posted. What's missing in that picture?

[Baobab]

40. Part of the idea is to shake people of those unrealistic expectations

they complain a lot about that in private.

[Enthusiast]

5. Kicked and recommended!

Thank you for the excellent article, Lodestar.

[Lodestar]

12. Thanks for reading. I think we all need to move from theory to

experiential learning and modeling, so I'm always interested to hear
about people's experiences of other ways of living. It's an important
first step to see one's own culture (country) clearly and be exposed
to alternatives, which travel always provides.
I hope a lot of young people will become engaged and
interested in exploring governments so that they can bring real change to our
country.

[Baobab]

30. But wouldn't that be impossible?

Businesses need predictability, for 5000 years we had that, now we have something else.

[Baobab]

38. As long as its liberalisation (privatization) it is okay.

Kind of like a six year old saying they'll play as long as you agree in advance that they must win.


http://data.consilium.europa .eu/doc/document/ST-11103-2013-DCL-1/en/pdf

http://data.consilium.europa .eu/doc/document/ST-6891-2013-ADD-1-DCL-1/en/pdf

Must fix url and right click and save to disk as file1.pdf file2.pdf

[Baobab]

41. Modeling starvation and a race to the bottom

why pay more? Neoliberalism sees paying more than the lowest the market will bear as being wrong.

The concept of a living wage is anathema to neoliberals. But our American neoliberals in the Democratic party shield us from their real opinions here. Even as they speak candidly when they are overseas.

[pangaia]

6. I have been to Norway several times for 2-3 week stays-business and pleasure.

and have many friends there.. Sarpsborg, Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim. I agree with the totally 180 degree difference in life there as compared to the US..

The thing that may be difficult to convince Americans about is the higher taxes required for what is 'given' to the citizens there.. Of course, Norwegians complain about taxes, fees on certain highways, etc..doesn't everybody everywhere. BUT... they also know what they are getting and would not, as far as I can see, EVER trade it for the crap that goes on in the US.

[mountain grammy]

8. Yes, getting something for in return for taxes..

a huge chunk of our taxes go to the bloated war machine... manufacturing instruments of death and destruction instead of meeting the needs of human beings. The biggest problem for American companies seems to be the lack of real slave labor, but with our stagnant minimum wage and the decimation of unions, they're close to the ultimate corporate power: fascism.

[Baobab]

39. Around half. But for that we get more military bang than ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED

n/t

Hows this for shock and awe!


Awwwwwwwww....

Unions wont matter without jobs to give people.

[Baobab]

31. Check out this paper- its even more extreme now

American Exceptionalism in a New Light: A Comparison of Intergenerational Earnings Mobility in the Nordic Countries, the United Kingdom and the United States


We develop methods and employ similar sample restrictions to analyse differences in intergenerational earnings mobility across the United States, the United Kingdom, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden. We examine earnings mobility among pairs of fathers and sons as well as fathers and daughters using both mobility matrices and regression and correlation coefficients. Our results suggest that all countries exhibit substantial earnings persistence across generations, but with statistically significant differences across countries. Mobility is lower in the U.S. than in the U.K., where it is lower again compared to the Nordic countries. Persistence is greatest in the tails of the distributions and tends to be particularly high in the upper tails: though in the U.S. this is reversed with a particularly high likelihood that sons of the poorest fathers will remain in the lowest earnings quintile. This is a challenge to the popular notion of 'American exceptionalism'. The U.S. also differs from the Nordic countries in its very low likelihood that sons of the highest earners will show downward 'long-distance' mobility into the lowest earnings quintile. In this, the U.K. is more similar to the U.S..


Download Info

File URL: http://ftp.iza.org/dp1938.pdf

Download Restriction: no

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. Norway also has a lot of well-managed oil royalty wealth. . nt

[Wednesdays]

18. So do we

The difference is, Norway shares the wealth with ordinary folk!

[Major Nikon]

42. True, but Norway doesn't have 300 million people to share it with

[LeftishBrit]

10. I love Norway

Have been there a few times in connection with work, and call it 'the land that Thatcherism forgot'. If I weren't so allergic to winter, I might have considered trying to move there.

Some years ago, I met a young man born with severe congenital physical disabilities, who moved to England to study a particular course. He said that he had never felt disabled until he left Norway, as the environmental adaptations to people's physical needs were so much better there.

[pberq]

11. Just amazing. And people say Sanders' ideas are "pie in the sky". eom

[Baobab]

32. Probably because Sanders is pretending the last 20 years of WTO and neoliberalism didnt happen

He's pretending the US could have single payer, NOW, isn't that a HOOT!?!

[pberq]

43. Absolutely it's a hoot

Especially considering the US government is already spending enough tax dollars on healthcare to fund single payer:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/january/government-funds-nearly-two-thirds-of-us-health-care-costs-american-journal-of-pub

At $5,960 per capita, government spending on health care costs in the U.S. was the highest of any nation in 2013, including countries with universal health programs such as Canada, Sweden and the United Kingdom. (Estimated total U.S. health spending for 2013 was $9,267 per capita, with government’s share being $5,960.) Indeed, government health spending in the United States exceeded total health spending (government plus private) in every other country except Switzerland.

The finding that Americans pay the world’s highest health-related taxes conflicts with popular perceptions that the U.S. health care financing system is predominantly private, write Drs. David U. Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler, the authors of the study. Himmelstein and Woolhandler are professors at the City University of New York School of Public Health and lecturers in medicine at Harvard Medical School.

[Baobab]

44. Globalisation's cure for indigenous workers and their professional protectionism increases profits

Yes yes yes, and that's the "problem". The wrong kind of efficiency. The real kind.

Competition policy is an ideology which I had thought (pretends to) ignore the fact that in healthcare competition increases costs. But in fact, globalization offers a "final solution" in the form of irreversible rights to pillage the educational investments of others at below cost. Global pillage of skilled workers. Based on the exclusion of almost all of what people think of as public services from any shelter from its mandatory globalization and commoditizations.

"a service supplied in the exercise of governmental authority' means any service which is supplied neither on a commercial basis, nor in competition with one or more service suppliers."

[George II]

13. Norway is a country with a population about 2/3 that of New York CITY, and 90+ % of Norwegian....

....residents are of Norwegian descent.

There's absolutely no way that Norway can be compared to the United States whatsoever.

[scscholar]

35. So you don't think a diverse...

population deserves these things?

[George II]

36. I said nothing of the kind. Where do you get that from?

Reread my post, please.

[Baobab]

45. Good read explaining the situation using Canada as an example.

Norway was grandfathered in - all their social programs pre-existed the creation of the current situation.

However, the US and other countries did not have social programs, so they are prevented from adding them by the sand still. Any movement has to be towards the elimination not creation of regulations. Taxation is exampt but not creation of anything which reduces the profits of corporations.

Those which were not grandfathered. So we could not become like Norway, Norway could become like the US, though.

Generally this one way deregulation and mandatory disinvestment concept is called progressifv libe ralisation. Its been the rule for all whirld trado rganizattion members

the ratchet, standstill, rollback, etc. create a one way street to complete disinvestment. With no exits.

Norway wisely does not change anything and likely as long as they do nothing to charge for anything or change anything they will be okay. Canada is in a similar situation.

[scscholar]

37. What does their descent matter?

As if that makes them more entitled to a better life.

[malthaussen]

14. There is a fairly important line in the article:

"Norway needed a larger labor force, and women were the answer."

IMO the prosperity of the 1950s and early 60s in the U.S. was caused by a shortage of labor, which means by classic economics that the value of labor was high, therefore the price, i.e. total compensation and benefits, was also high. The supply of labor was kept artificially low by excluding from the labor pool significant populations of women and non-whites. This all began to change towards the beginning of the 70s, at a time when the labor pool was also increasing due to the coming of age of the Baby Boom generation. Supply goes up, demand goes down; demand goes down, then the price of the commodity (workers, in this case: Human Resources, as they're called) decreases. Other factors have contributed to the lessening of demand for workers, including increases in productivity and outsourcing. The net effect is that a vital condition for Scandinavian-style democratic socialism does not and never has existed in the U.S.: there is no labor shortage to drive the price of labor upward.

Other conditions also obtain. I think economy of scale is one of them: it is easier to have a welfare state for five million people than 330 million. Oh, yes, of course a population of 330 million will also produce more wealth than one of five million, but what happens when there are no jobs for a good portion of that 330 million? And as has been pointed out elsewhere, part of Norway's state expenses are paid for by the North Sea oil, the proceeds of which can make rather a more substantial difference to 5 million citizens than to 330 million. Which doesn't mean Democratic Socialism is impossible in the U.S., just that, to use an engineering term, it can't be built with off-the-shelf components.

-- Mal

[Festivito]

17. Good points. Remember also 90+% top income tax.

Good points. Remember also 90+% top income tax.
We were all pulling to beat Nazis. We were pulling together after the WWII to work together in case any other such insurrection should arise.

Then, we lost track of why we pull together.

It's easy for the heads of corporations to give themselves higher and higher compensation until the whole system breaks. Instead, back then, they had to ask to play with the money WE helped them make. Call it democratic socialism, or call it common sense.

[NorthCarolina]

15. We're working on that.

We need to get Bernie elected first.

[appalachiablue]

16. K & R. Great article, thanks.