The Second Amendment

[Koch Ebola]

The Second Amendment: Those who are Anarchists or Libertarians, you are excused from class. This post is intended for people who believe that the rule of law has a legitimate purpose in life.
The term, “Gun Control” is a misnomer. It is really should be called: Gun Regulation, which is mandated in the Constitution. Nobody on the left wants to confiscate your guns because Regulation is not confiscation. We respect law-abiding citizens to own their own guns just as you have the right to own an automobile. However all Cars are regulated by state governments. The driver must be licensed and the vehicle must be registered. There is also monitory liability insurance. Guns should be treated the same way. Gun owners should be required to have liability insurance. Gun owners should have to take a written test and a physical test on safety.
Then you ask: What about all the illegal guns in the streets? We have the A.T.F so lets use it. Now on to the subject on hand: The Second Amendment. This is my take on that subject:
[link:The Second Amendment:
The Second Amendment: Those who are Anarchists or Libertarians, you are excused from class. This post is intended for people who believe that the rule of law has a legitimate purpose in life.
The term, “Gun Control” is a misnomer. It is really should be called: Gun Regulation, which is mandated in the Constitution. Nobody on the left wants to confiscate your guns because Regulation is not confiscation. We respect law-abiding citizens to own their own guns just as you have the right to own an automobile. However all Cars are regulated by state governments. The driver must be licensed and the vehicle must be registered. There is also monitory liability insurance. Guns should be treated the same way. Gun owners should be required to have liability insurance. Gun owners should have to take a written test and a physical test on safety.
Then you ask: What about all the illegal guns in the streets? We have the A.T.F so lets use it. Now on to the subject on hand: The Second Amendment. This is my take on that subject:
http://stephenjaymorrisblog.tumblr.com/

[citood]

1. Well Regulated

"Gun Regulation, which is mandated in the Constitution."

In the late 18th century, the phrase 'well regulated' meant 'calibrated, or working correctly'.

Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, (1989) defining regulated in 1690:

(obsolete sense)

b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

[flamin lib]

3. Yeah, and everything regarding guns is working just perfectly.

30,000 deaths, over 100,000 injured at a cost to the country of $225 billion. Yeah, it's all just ducky.

eta, Back so soon?

[citood]

4. "Back so soon?"

Long time listener...first time caller. Finally decided to get a screen name and participate.

But I am curious as to who you think I am/was.

[Koch Ebola]

8. Ah....

Don't care.

[Igel]

7. This goes into the "We have an ATF, let's use it" category.

We have a problem, let's use the tool we have. That nail needs driving. Quick, hand me the electron microscope, I'll pound that nail in in no time flat.

Tools find uses, uses find tools. That's not a virtue. Screwdrivers can screw in a screw (intended use), break through ice (meh), or stab somebody through the heart. The ATF has its use.

Point is, just because things aren't working perfectly doesn't mean that the tools we have have to be used to achieve your perfection. It requires nuance and understanding to see what's actually happening, and to figure out the best way to fix it. Not just "here's a tool, use it to solve that problem."

"Quick, the dam is failing! We need a tool to help it stay together!"
"I'm just your man, here's a handy tool. You can borrow my jackhammer."

Half of gun deaths are suicides. Guns make it easy, but since most suicides are men and men usually succeed when they want to off themselves, the only lives it saves are those for whom suicidal ideation is a passing fancy. You remove guns, most of the suicides stay. It's a dynamic process, not a static one. Guns are tools. Dangerous tools, but tools, nonetheless.

Almost half of murders are in the South. That's a strange fact. Yeah, most are gun related. But the South isn't especially noted for more gun ownership. There's something different about people in the South than in most of the rest of the country. And, no, saying they're all Southern racists devoted to "the cause" won't help because a decent percentage of those deaths involve blacks as the murderers--and few of us want to say a Southern black is a "Southern racist devoted to the cause." Some reductions to the absurd can't just be laughed off.

Almost half of the murdered nationwide are black. I'm going to bet that very few of their murderers are NRA members and most probably are only marginally aware of the 2A. Most were probably bought illegally, and if universal background checks were mandated I don't see that illegal handgun sale being submitted: "Hi, I want to sell my Glock to J, yeah, he's wanted for 3 felonies and has served time already, and if you say it's not okay I'll get the gun back from him." Uh-huh.

However, many of those murderers are roughly organized young men with a hierarchical system that hang together to protect territory. So they're "well regulated miltias," but just not ones that have the freedom and security of their state at heart. One suspicion as to why Chicago's shooting toll was lower over the 4th of July this year is that Friday morning, I was told, the Chicago PD detained something like 90 "usual suspects" in a pre-emptive strike. Now, this rankles because pre-emptively detaining somebody is just not how I think the Constitution should be interpreted.

On the other hand, the (non-falsifiable) claim that this saved lives is worth considering. Perhaps we should have more pre-emptory raids to detain people we think might commit crimes. Because, they--there's a tool, let's use it.

[Koch Ebola]

9. This goes into the category of right wing Logorrhea.

Response: I always found the analogy that a weapon is a tool very absurd. A shovel is a tool unless you then employ some skip loader, then it’s become heavy equipment. A gun is a deadly device unless you use a nuclear bomb, and then it is a massive weapon of destruction. To explain your position, you use a tool of analogy. Analogies are fine in explaining positions, however, it defeats your point of view.
Another annoying retorts are employing the tacit of using statistics. The righties are doing it in their propaganda diatribes. They have no originality. All they do is imitate the tactics of the so-called left. All they care about is winning the argument and achieving power.
Another thing: What is this obsession the right has with Chicago? Hmm mm, let me think? It has something to do with Obama? Now here is quote from you;

However, many of those murderers are roughly organized young men with a hierarchical system that hang together to protect territory. So they're "well regulated militias," but just not ones that have the freedom and security of their state at heart. One suspicion as to why Chicago's shooting toll was lower over the 4th of July this year is that Friday morning, I was told, the Chicago PD detained something like 90 "usual suspects" in a pre-emptive strike. Now, this rankles because pre-emptively detaining somebody is just not how I think the Constitution should be interpreted. Unquote!

You are equating street gangs to a militia? Gangs are the Criminal class; they are not revolutionaries fighting British imperialism. Now the right is passive/aggressively going on a racist Jihad. Instead of solving a problem, they blame and blame. Republicans are tools for the gun manufactures. That is the only time a gun is a tool.

[Duckhunter935]

2. You do know you do not need to do any of that to

OWN a car. Only operate on a public road. No registration to OWN a car, no license to OWN a car, no insurance to OWN a car.

[freebrew]

5. As for cars...

no one needs a license or registration to buy one.
As a matter of fact, no one needs to be of age to buy one, if you have the money.

Driving it, legally, requires all of the above.

So, that's a false analogy, as to buy a weapon, legally, you at least need a background check.
And in this state, you must be 18 or older.

[hack89]

6. What's the purpose of liability insurance?

is it supposed to somehow reduce gun violence?

[Koch Ebola]

10. Liability insurance protects the gun owner.

I don't know about you, but if someone shoots me without a good reason, I will sue them. It all about Free enterprise. Let's see how gun owners feel about state mandated insurance laws for guns. After all, the government helps the free market not just regulated it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. Even the best liability insurance isn't going to cover crime

You might be able to get them to pay up if the gun owner shoots you accidentally, but if they shoot you for anything other than self defense, they have committed a crime.

I have comprehensive insurance on my car, but if I run into a brick wall and total it because I was fleeing from the police, I'm SOL.

[hack89]

12. Insurance will not pay for that

It is a criminal act.