Medicare-for-all is cheaper

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

When I made this observation on Twitter, conservatives (including several prominent commentators) spent the next several days scoffing at the idea, trying to disprove it with wildly inaccurate statistics or just straight-up refusing to understand the point being made. It's a good demonstration of the utter uselessness of conservative ideology when it comes to health care.

First, let's actually look at the numbers. In 2016, Canada's single-payer system cost about $4,500 per person. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services say that same year, just directly tax-supported health-care programs — Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Affairs health programs, and the Children's Health Care Program — cost together $1.929 trillion, or $5,972 per person. Add in the cost of the employer-based insurance tax exclusion ($268 billion) and ObamaCare tax subsidies ($48 billion), both figures courtesy of the Congressional Budget Office, and total government spending on health care rises to $2.245 trillion, or $6,950 per person.

So not only does our government health spending easily exceed that of Canada, it's not even close. And that's still leaving some stuff out!

When making these sorts of comparisons, it's important to understand what manner of point is being made. Obviously it would be nearly impossible to literally copy-paste one country's institutions into another — there are all manner of huge changes to payment systems, provider networks, and prices that would have to happen, and it would be immensely disruptive to just cram it through overnight. (That is why Sanders' Medicare-for-all bill would be considerably more generous than the Canadian system, and take effect over a number of years.)

(snip)

http://theweek.com/articles/789640/medicareforall-cheaper

[Hoyt]

1. Not just that. Americans on Medicare at least pick up 20% of the cost themselves on most medical

services unless they go out and purchase supplemental insurance or join a Medicare Advantage plan where they still pay some of the cost.

Our whole system is messed up and it will take a massive restructuring to make it like Canada. I'm not sure it will be cheaper either, BUT we have to do something so that everyone has care.

Funding -- start by slashing the military budget and reversing some of the tax cuts made recently.

When you think about it, the Clintons tried to reform the system in 1993. Obama managed to get something through, but it wasn't the final answer, and has practically been destroyed by GOPers. I don't know if we'll ever get anything done, and that it really sad especially for people who have no way of affording care but to get sick, lose everything and apply for Medicaid and hope they will cover some care and they can find a doctor who'll accept Medicaid. Then, the GOPers will howl that Medicaid is bleeding us dry.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. Unfortunately, too many people don't understand that.

They simply start complaining that they don't want to have to pay for the insulin for some overweight person who has diabetes, or the oxygen for someone with COPD from years of smoking. And so on. They just don't get it that even accounting for whatever illnesses people bring on themselves, covering everyone and guaranteeing at least basic care for all saves enormous sums of money.

What really should happen is that Medicare should be expanded in some systematic and sensible fashion. Maybe start by lowering the entry age by five years every other year. Maybe on a faster schedule. Maybe start with every single person being covered at a very base level which gets expanded in some systematic way. I'm not knowledgeable enough about these things to come up with much of a plan myself, but others out there, especially those in the health care world, could figure it out.

[area51]

3. Some information

from PNHP that might interest you.

[dansolo]

4. Your arguments would be more convincing if you used accurate statistics

https://www.cihi.ca/en/health-spending

'In 2017, total health expenditure in Canada is expected to reach $242 billion, or $ 6,604 per person" Talk about trying to "disprove [things] with wildly inaccurate statistics" The difference is probably due to the fact that the Canadian system is not single payer, and as much as 30% of costs are covered by other supplemental insurance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-canadian-health-care-in-one-post/?utm_term=.181e3ed07b1d

Canadian health costs are definitely cheaper than the US, and I would like to see the focus more on reducing costs.

[Judi Lynn]

5. So many people need to learn about this, as soon as possible. Thank you, Uncle Joe. n/t