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Thu Apr 3, 2014, 01:02 AM

European far-right backs Putin over Crimea

Last edited Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Russia has accused the West of organising a fascist plot in Ukraine. All those masked men in black hanging around Kiev, looking sinister. When I was in Crimea a few weeks ago, at exactly the point of the Russian takeover, the local state TV channel suddenly switched from covering normal news to running endless documentaries about Hitler and how the Soviet armies defended Ukraine from Nazism.

And it is certainly true that there are some hardline right-wing elements in Kiev and western Ukraine, though it appears some steps are being taken to get them out of the picture if the new government there is going to get the European Union to take it seriously.

But here’s something interesting that’s just started to emerge: across western Europe, where hardline right-wing, ultra-nationalist parties are in the ascendency in opinion polls, it’s turning out that many of them are hugely supportive of what Putin’s organised in Crimea.

To the naked eye it appears parties often accused of being neo-fascist are supporting a Russian plan which is ostensibly designed to stop fascism.

more...



ETA: If for some reason you are unable to watch the video, please try post #12 in this thread. to Petrushka!

31 replies, 8204 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply European far-right backs Putin over Crimea (Original post)
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 OP
Petrushka Apr 2014 #1
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #2
Igel Apr 2014 #9
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #10
Petrushka Apr 2014 #11
Petrushka Apr 2014 #12
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #13
Petrushka Apr 2014 #14
bemildred Apr 2014 #3
Daniel537 Apr 2014 #4
MicaelS Apr 2014 #5
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #6
MicaelS Apr 2014 #7
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #8
go west young man Apr 2014 #15
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #16
go west young man Apr 2014 #17
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #18
go west young man Apr 2014 #19
bemildred Apr 2014 #20
go west young man Apr 2014 #21
bemildred Apr 2014 #22
go west young man Apr 2014 #23
bemildred Apr 2014 #25
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #24
go west young man Apr 2014 #26
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #27
go west young man Apr 2014 #28
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #29
go west young man Apr 2014 #30
Behind the Aegis Apr 2014 #31

Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:35 AM

1. Video not available in this country. (eom)

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Response to Petrushka (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:37 AM

2. What country are you in?

It is YouTube, it should be available. It is a short report, but interesting.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:34 PM

9. Same here. I'm in the US.

Well, Texas, but that's typically considered part of the US.

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:52 PM

10. Texas? Well, that is foreign, given I am in OK!




Can you not see the video either? I don't know why since it is on YouTube. Is it possible there is a setting on your computer that won't all ow it? I know mine will block videos from certain sites, unless I turn it off.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:16 AM

11. I'm in the United States . . . but . . . YouTube's message is:

"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:21 AM

12. By doing a search on YouTube, I found a different link where the video is available -->

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Response to Petrushka (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:31 AM

13. Thank you.

I am sorry for the trouble. I am unsure as to why it wouldn't play for you, and apparently some others here. I am going to update my OP with a reference to your post.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 5, 2014, 01:09 AM

14. No problem!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 04:32 AM

3. No real surprise there. nt

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 07:31 AM

4. Someone should inform the Ukrainian far-right.

 

But their probably too busy blaming everything on Jews, Communists and Russians.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:33 PM

5. I am willing to bet that some of the far-right support is because..

Of the anti-LGBT crap going on in Russia. When the far (religious) right in the US starts thinking that a former KGB officer / Communist (of all things) is a neat guy because of his country's anti-LGBT position, you know there is some fucked-up thinking in the far-right heads.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:49 PM

6. Very possible, but likely due more to anti-immigration stances and nationalism.

The article claims it is because Russia is "standing up to" the EU, which these groups hate and want their individual countries to withdraw. Of the nations mentioned, I have only followed France's and Hungary's recent political right-wing swing, and much of it is based on nationalism, xenophobia, and anti-Semitism. A similar situation is occurring in Greece.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:54 PM

7. I think you're right.

That is why I said some. I would guess maybe 10% of it is because of the anti-LGBT crap.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 03:07 PM

8. 10%...you're funny. :)

I doubled checked, and one of the provisions of the Copenhagen criteria used to join the EU can be used to protect the right's of GLBT persons. Were a nation to violate this, say with a Russian style anti-gay law, it is possible they could face actions or lose their status (though it appears it would be very long and drawn out). So, it is very possible that homo/transphobia is also a mitigating factor in the actions of these nationalist parties. I can't imagine they are very LGBT-friendly.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Sat Apr 5, 2014, 10:16 PM

15. Putin is far from anti-Semitic.

 

Hence his Roosotrudnichestvo initiative for Russian jews in Israel. Kind of makes your anti-Semitic line fall apart as he is putting millions of dollars into promoting the history of Russian jews in Israel and establishing more direct partnerships with the Israeli government. Why would he be anti-Semitic and set up an organization that promotes the history of Russian jewish people?

http://rcctelavivnews.wordpress.com

http://innovation.jinr.ru/news_details.aspx?id=152&language=eng

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Response to go west young man (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:37 AM

16. Where was it stated that Putin was anti-Semitic?

This is known as a "strawman fallacy." Your links demonstrate nothing. BTW, you do realize that "Jews" and "Jewish" are both capitalized words, right?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 11:08 AM

17. Your post implies an association

 

between Putin and the Far Right. One could easily do the same with former President Bush and far right groups. It doesn't hold water however unless the leader themselves backs those groups. That is the point of my post. Those groups are primarily anti-Semitic however, Putin is not, and my links on his jewish initiatives back this up. He's funneling millions of dollars into a program that seeks to highlight the history of Russian and Israeli jewish people. As far as my spelling goes, thanks for the didactic and petulant correction.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 12:36 PM

18. No, my post implies nothing of the sort.

The article is about the far-right groups of other countries and why they are supporting Putin, not why is Putin supporting far-right groups. Your links prove nothing as to whether Putin has anti-Semitic leanings or not. The reason for correcting your spelling, which I see you didn't correct, is because using lowercase when talking about Jews or Judaism is disrespectful, but as I stated, you continue to do so.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 02:35 PM

19. My links point out the obvious in regards to Putin.

 

Why would he fund a pro jewish initiative otherwise? As far as respect goes...you may want to separate yourself from representing the Jewish (or jewish) community overall because with admonishments over spelling you are certainly not doing the community any favors. I wasn't aware that Jews as a whole lost it when you didn't capitalize their ethnicity correctly. Talk about a persecution complex. I'm an agnostic brit but I couldn't give a shit whether someone uses capitalization when referring to who or what I may be. Your sensitivity to the ridiculous hurts your own advocacy for your cause.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 03:11 PM

20. You, are on very thin ice, young man.

I suggest you reconsider your attitude if you want to keep posting here.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #20)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 03:53 PM

21. Cheers.

 

I need the spanking. The other day I posted the word christian unaware that it was supposed to be capitalized and Fred Phelps ghost tried to molest me in a dream. Weird stuff.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 04:49 PM

22. Just offering a little free advice.

But what do I know, right?

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Response to bemildred (Reply #22)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 07:49 PM

23. And here I was thinking you were being sarcastic.

 

Heck if DU wants to get rid of me for those simple points then maybe it needs a name change. I certainly hope that's not the case as I've been posting controversial thought provoking things here for ages. If what I write is too outside the accepted norms at this point, then maybe it's not the DU I thought it was.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 09:23 PM

25. I often am, but not this time.

But don't mind me, carry on.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 08:03 PM

24. Your links do nothing of the sort. But there is something OBVIOUS in regards to Putin.

You may not want to tell me as a Jew, what I can can't find offensive to me.

"Talk about a persecution complex."

Now, that's some good irony!

The rest of your post is as ridiculous as your first one, its claims, and the subsequent posts you created. And to think, you have the audacity to "tut-tut" me about what should and shouldn't be offensive to me, all the while your entire sub-thread is in defensive of someone who isn't even under "attack".

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 09:17 AM

26. Here's what Jews are thinking about New Ukraine and

 

the Far right hoodlums you seem to be backing. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.584292

As Jews flee unrest, new figures show sharp rise in immigration from Ukraine

Number of new immigrants from Ukraine registered at the ministry in the first three months of the year totaled 557, an increase of 43 percent over the same period last year.

Shakhar, who formerly served as the Jewish Agency emissary in Kiev, said that based on the number of Ukrainian Jews who have registered for flights to Israel this month, the upward trend appears to be continuing. The April figures indicate, she said, that Jews from Kiev, the capital, are now also leaving the country in growing numbers.

But she said it was difficult to predict how long this immigration wave would last.

In addition to an increase in the numbers of Jews leaving the country and registering for flights to Israel, Shakhar said an upward trend was also evident in the number seeking advice about immigration to Israel at Jewish Agency offices around Ukraine.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 12:08 PM

27. And here's what Ukraine's Jews are saying...

Ukraine’s Jews Dismiss Claims of Anti-Semitism

NIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine — From his office atop the world’s biggest Jewish community center, Shmuel Kaminezki, the chief rabbi of this eastern Ukrainian city, has followed with dismay Russian claims that Ukraine is now in the hands of neo-Nazi extremists — and struggled to calm his panicked 85-year-old mother in New York.

Raised in Russia and a regular viewer of Russian television, she “calls every day to ask, ‘Have the pogroms happened yet?' ” Rabbi Kaminezki said. He tells his mother that they have not, and that she should stop watching Russian TV. “It is a total lie,” he said. “Jews are not in danger in Ukraine.”

Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, added his own voice to the scaremongering in a speech at the Kremlin on March 18, when he described the ouster of President Viktor F. Yanukovych of Ukraine as an armed coup executed by “nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes and anti-Semites” who “continue to set the tone in Ukraine to this day.”

But instead of reeling in panic at any fascist resurgence, the Jewish community of Dnipropetrovsk, one of the largest in Ukraine, is celebrating the recent appointment of one of its own, a billionaire tycoon named Ihor Kolomoysky, as the region’s most powerful official.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/world/europe/ukraines-jews-dismiss-claims-of-anti-semitism.html

[hr]

Still has jack shit to do with your claims, or more importantly, the OP.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 12:32 PM

28. It has much to do with your agenda....

 

which is hypocritical, to say the least. In some posts your support Jews and in others you argue on behalf of right wing extremists that regularly incite violence against Jews. My information is based upon official immigration statistics coming out of Ukraine (as cited by Haertz). Your info is based upon a small group of individuals in a certain area and a few opinions. Here's some definitions for you.


Subjective information or writing is based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. It is often considered ill-suited for scenarios like news reporting or decision making in business or politics. Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 12:39 PM

29. The only agenda here is yours.

I support the Jews. PERIOD. You, however, support the Jews who support YOUR POSITION. It is that, GWYM, that is hypocritical and disingenuous. I have a long history of confronting anti-Semitism; how's about you? no? Only when it serves a purpose? Again, we see you, a non=Jew, telling me, a Jew, what is and isn't important to me. These type of arguments would be slaughtered were you to say this about gays, AA, or women, of which you belong to none of those groups either.

The OP was about RIGHT WING SUPPORT from other European nations, NOT PUTIN, which YOU have attempted to make it about. When that failed, you tried to make it about the Jews. It has failed as well.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 12:50 PM

30. Ah....but your not supporting all Jews.

 

Your supporting certain Ukrainian Jews to fit your argument. If you were supporting all Jews then of course you would be supporting the Jews in East Ukraine as well. The ones that Haaertz cites above as leaving Ukraine in numbers twice greater than last year at this very same time. What say you of those people?

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Response to go west young man (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 12:57 PM

31. I support all Jews, including those with different opinions.

What I don't support is those who use us a pawn in their agendas.

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