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unhappycamper

(60,364 posts)
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:44 AM Apr 2014

America: Stupidly stuck between religion and science

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/12/america_stupidly_stuck_between_religion_and_science/



America: Stupidly stuck between religion and science
Andrew O'Hehir
Saturday, Apr 12, 2014 12:30 PM EST

Karl Marx’s famous maxim that history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce, can apply just as well to the history of ideas as to the political sphere. Consider the teapot-tempest over religion and science that has mysteriously broken out in 2014, and has proven so irresistible to the media. We already had this debate, which occupied a great deal of the intellectual life of Western civilization in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it was a whole lot less stupid the first time around. Of course, no one on any side of the argument understands its philosophical and theological history, and the very idea of “Western civilization” is in considerable disrepute on the left and right alike. So we get the sinister cartoon version, in which religious faith and scientific rationalism are reduced to ideological caricatures of themselves, and in which we are revealed to believe in neither one.

Young-earth creationism, a tiny fringe movement within Christianity whose influence is largely a reflection of liberal hysteria, is getting a totally unearned moment in the spotlight (for at least the second or third time). Evangelist Ken Ham of the pseudo-scientific advocacy group Answers in Genesis gets to “debate” Bill Nye the Science Guy about whether or not the earth is 6,000 years old, in a grotesque parody of academic discourse. Ham’s allies, meanwhile, complain that Neil deGrasse Tyson’s new “Cosmos” TV series has no room for their ludicrous anti-scientific beliefs. If anything, Tyson’s show has spent a suspicious amount of time indirectly debunking creationist ideas. They seem to make him (or, more properly, his writers) nervous. Not, as Ham would have it, because somewhere inside themselves these infidels recognize revealed truth, but because religious ecstasy, however nonsensical, is powerful in a way reason and logic are not.

Everyone who writes a snarky Internet comment about why the T-Rex couple didn’t make it onto Noah’s ark betrays the same nervousness, and so do earnest Northeast Corridor journalists who rush to assure us that Ham’s elaborate fantasy scenarios about fossils and the Grand Canyon are not actually true, and that we would all find science just as wonderful as religion if only we paid attention. (Such articles strike me as totems of liberal self-reassurance, and not terribly convincing ones at that.) Repeating facts over and over again doesn’t make them any more true, and definitely doesn’t make them more convincing. I suppose this is about trying to win the hearts and minds of some uninformed but uncommitted mass of people out there who don’t quite know what they think. But hectoring or patronizing them is unlikely to do any good, and if you believe that facts are what carry the day in American public discourse then you haven’t paid much attention to the last 350 years or so.

This creationist boomlet goes hand in glove with the larger political strategy of Christian fundamentalism, which is somewhere between diabolically clever and flat-out desperate. Faced with a long sunset as a significant but declining subculture, the Christian right has embraced postmodernism and identity politics, at least in the sense that it suddenly wants to depict itself as a persecuted cultural minority entitled to special rights and privileges. These largely boil down, of course, to the right to resist scientific evidence on everything from evolution to climate change to vaccination, along with the right to be gratuitously cruel to LGBT people. One might well argue that this has less to do with the eternal dictates of the Almighty than with anti-government paranoia and old-fashioned bigotry. But it’s noteworthy that even in its dumbest and most debased form, religion still finds a way to attack liberal orthodoxy at its weak point.
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America: Stupidly stuck between religion and science (Original Post) unhappycamper Apr 2014 OP
America: Stupid people are stuck between religion and science House of Roberts Apr 2014 #1
... TBF Apr 2014 #2
You don't argue with a two-year-old Demeter Apr 2014 #3
This is a terribly flawed premise from the start... Moostache Apr 2014 #4
The Salon Article Had Me Scratching My Head As Well DallasNE Apr 2014 #7
Sheesh, another Salon hack job skepticscott Apr 2014 #5
For the most part that's true unrepentant progress Apr 2014 #8
Check it out. proverbialwisdom Apr 2014 #6
That's dated, I think efforts to deny inconvenient science are bipartisan. proverbialwisdom Apr 2014 #10
Nice read. "Faced with a long sunset as a significant but declining subculture…" toby jo Apr 2014 #9

House of Roberts

(5,174 posts)
1. America: Stupid people are stuck between religion and science
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:00 AM
Apr 2014

There. All fixed now.

I'm enjoying seeing promos for Cosmos during Fox shows where it will be in the face of the stupids, like during Nascar races and Fox News Sunday.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
4. This is a terribly flawed premise from the start...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:23 AM
Apr 2014

The idea that refuting the tire-fire starting crazies in the town square is an exercise in futility., I am sorry but the level of general stupidity in America these days is shockingly high and to ignore the propagandist who try to use it for their mind control and self-serving agendas is unacceptable.

Creationists would be a minor annoyance today - indeed a crazy circus sideshow - if it weren't for the fact that surveys of Americans CONSISTENTLY find that 40-45% of respondents say they believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and that Darwinian evolution is not something they "believe in". This is NOT just the fringe crazies like Ham, it is the overly active imaginations of "persecuted" Christians who are willing to go along with the crazies because they feel the alternative is siding with the godless heathen scientists and obnoxious atheists.

But its worse than just people professing ignorance proudly. In Texas and other right wing dominated ignorance conglomerates, the school boards and committees that determine curricula and text book standards and content are NOT content to allow the facts to speak, they intentionally muddy the waters with stickers and required statements to students BY SCIENCE TEACHERS about RELIGIOUS IDEAS. This is an on-going fight over and over and over again.

This article from Salon is a disservice to America and the author should be ashamed of himself to be such a willing tool of the agenda of the oligarch class that wishes to keep the people dumb, afraid and fighting each other instead of recognizing the real threats and manipulations. Creationism is NOT just an affront to liberal orthodoxy - it is an affront to the collective intelligence of man and calling it out as such is NEVER a waste of time.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
7. The Salon Article Had Me Scratching My Head As Well
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:19 AM
Apr 2014

And this statement in particular caught my attention.

even in its dumbest and most debased form, religion still finds a way to attack liberal orthodoxy at its weak point.


It does? Where are the examples. Pronouncing that all is lost is hand-wringing I simply don't buy into. Indeed, liberal orthodoxy is on the assent in America and not the other way around. Watch, I think that will even start to play out in the 2014 election, even in the South, so inroads are being made at this very moment.

But then I'm not sure I even understand the point Salon is attempting to make because of the confusing, disjointed, rambling way the article is put together.
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
5. Sheesh, another Salon hack job
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:48 AM
Apr 2014
Consider the teapot-tempest over religion and science that has mysteriously broken out in 2014, and has proven so irresistible to the media.


It just broke out this year. For "mysterious" reasons? Seriously?

Of course, no one on any side of the argument understands its philosophical and theological history


No one understands it? Not one single solitary person has ever studied it before, until this wise sage came along to enlighten us?

Someone really wrote this schlock? And expected to be paid actual money for it? Knowing that other creatures with opposable thumbs were going to read it?

8. For the most part that's true
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:31 AM
Apr 2014

After all, even Cosmos can't present an accurate portrayal of history (the segment on Hooke was worse than the segment on Bruno). Which is a shame, because Cosmos is an otherwise excellent program. I just wish they had actually consulted historians.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
6. Check it out.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:53 AM
Apr 2014
http://www.waronscience.com/excerpt.php

[img][/img]

Chapter 11: “Creation Science” 2.0
The following excerpt contains an update not found in the original hardcover edition.

NEARLY FORTY YEARS AGO, in 1966, two talented young political thinkers published an extraordinary book, one that reads, in retrospect, as a profound warning to the Republican Party that went tragically unheeded.

The authors had been roommates at Harvard University, and had participated in the Ripon Society, an upstart group of Republican liberals. They had worked together on Advance, dubbed “the unofficial Republican magazine,” which slammed the party from within for catering to segregationists, John Birchers, and other extremists. Following their graduation, both young men moved into the world of journalism and got the chance to further advance their “progressive” Republican campaign in a book for the eminent publisher Alfred A. Knopf. In their spirited 1966 polemic The Party That Lost Its Head, they held nothing back. The book devastatingly critiqued Barry Goldwater’s 1964 presidential candidacy—the modern conservative movement’s primal scene—and dismissed the GOP’s embrace of rising star Ronald Reagan as the party’s hope to “usurp reality with the fading world of the class-B movie.“

<>

The story begins, however, with a narrative that cuts to the heart of the modern Right’s war on science. You see, despite the poignant accuracy of their critique, the authors of The Party That Lost Its Head—Bruce K. Chapman and George Gilder—have since bitten their tongues and morphed from liberal Republicans into staunch conservatives. In fact, you could say that they have become everything they once criticized. Once opponents of right-wing anti-intellectualism, they are now prominent supporters of conservative attacks on the theory of evolution, not just a bedrock of modern science but one of the greatest intellectual achievements of human history. With this transformation, the modern Right’s war on intellectuals—including scientists and those possessing expertise in other areas—is truly complete.

<>


proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
10. That's dated, I think efforts to deny inconvenient science are bipartisan.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:40 PM
Apr 2014

Clearly, it's fair to regard many Democrats as science denying, too, although in different ways from Republicans whenever either subscribes to "science" rather than science (the former occurring when $ is the driver behind the research, not truth).

http://www.nrdc.org/media/2014/140407b.asp

Press Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

NRDC Report: Potentially Unsafe Chemicals in Food Threaten Public Health
Gaping loophole needs to be closed

WASHINGTON (April 7, 2014)

http://www.healthystuff.org/release.03192014.marchbadness.php

Press Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New study finds toxic chemicals in University fan gear
HealthyStuff.org ranks university fan gear in a Toxic Tournament. Which team wins the Most Toxic Product award? Consumers decide in this study

March 19, 2014


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-02/hsop-gno021214.php

Press Release
PUBLIC RELEASE DATE: 14-Feb-2014

Harvard School of Public Health

Growing number of chemicals linked with brain disorders in children

Boston, MA – Toxic chemicals may be triggering the recent increases in neurodevelopmental disabilities among children—such as autism, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, and dyslexia—according to a new study from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. The researchers say a new global prevention strategy to control the use of these substances is urgently needed.

The report will be published online February 15, 2014 in Lancet Neurology.

http://www.asrm.org/Environmental_Chemicals_Harm_Reproductive_Health/

Published in ASRM Press Release

Highlights from Fertility and Sterility: Environmental Chemicals Harm Reproductive Health
Ob-Gyns Advocate for Policy Changes to Protect Health

September 24 , 2013
by: ASRM Office of Public Affairs

Washington, DC—Toxic chemicals in the environment harm our ability to reproduce, negatively affect pregnancies, and are associated with numerous other long-term health problems, according to The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (The College) and the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM). In a joint Committee Opinion, The College and ASRM urge ob-gyns to advocate for government policy changes to identify and reduce exposure to toxic environmental agents.

“Lawmakers should require the US Environmental Protection Agency and industry to define and estimate the dangers that aggregate exposure to harmful chemicals pose to pregnant women, infants, and children and act to protect these vulnerable populations,” said Jeanne A. Conry, MD, PhD, president of The College.

http://vimeo.com/22090002

Dr. Michael P. Wilson PhD: What The Public Can Do
from Penelope Jagessar Chaffer PLUS 3 years ago

Dr. Michael P. Wilson discusses the Baby Tooth Study as an example of public advocacy and how the general public can bring about legislation and change.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/101690362
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017186063
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113910894
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024502342
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017174846
http://www.saferstates.com/2014/02/2014-toxic-chemicals-legislation.html

Science, potentially interfering with commerce, having little to no traction among either Democrats or Republicans (not to mention, DU). Explain it.
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