Did the U.S. Carry Out a Ukrainian Coup?

[geefloyd46]

[rdharma]

1. Excellent Video! Thanks! nt

[brush]

18. I didn't watch video all the way through but both the interviewer and interviewee seem unaware of

this:

The Budapest Memorandum of 1994, signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – promises to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Article one reads: "The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine ... to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."

http://unterm.un.org/DGAACS/unterm.nsf/8fa942046ff7601c85256983007ca4d8/fa03e45d114224af85257b64007687e0?OpenDocument

The question first posed by the interviewer was — is this incursion a violation of international law?

Of course it is. Why don't both of them know this.

[rdharma]

21. You might watch the video..... before you try to hijack the thread.

Maybe you should start another thread to discuss your issue. (Which is debatable, but just an intentional distraction here).

[brush]

22. What distraction?

Last edited Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:50 PM - Edit history (2)

Added info of the Budapest signed agreement is hijacking? I went back and watched the second half of the video and although the interviewee offers a lot of good information and says "there are a lot of things in play here", he doesn't mention the Budapest Memorandum.

Certainly something that is also "in play" and that our president has to juggle as he and his cabinet try to figure out what to do.

[rdharma]

23. What is the UN's position on externally fomented & sponsored coups in member nations?

Well?

[brush]

25. Explain pls

What does the "Well?"

Are you saying you have evidence that this was an externally fomented coup?

Give links or something to back up your question.

And you still haven't bothered to acknowledge there is such a sighed document (Russia, Ukraine, Great Britain and the US) called the Budapest Memorandum.

[rdharma]

27. "Well?" means I'd like you to address the topic of the original thread......

.... instead of intentionally trying to distract by throwing out red herrings.

Pretty simple actually. Do you think the "peaceful" portion of the Maidan protests wanted oligarchs installed? (It's already clear who the Right Sector wanted installed).

[brush]

31. Nobody's trying to distract anyone

and of course no one wants oligarchs installed or is throwing out red herrings — just trying to understand the situation better.

And what does pointing out added information about a document that was signed at the break-up of the Soviet Union that might have some significance in how the president reacts to what Putin has done in The Ukraine hurt?

[rdharma]

32. Nobody want's RW oligarchs installed in Ukraine?

You might want to let the interim government stooges know about that! They've already installed them!

Sergei Taruta in Donetsk .........and Ihor Kolomoysky in Dnipropetrovsk.

[brush]

33. I'm just a poster here on DU

I have no inside access to anyone in Ukraine. I happened to watch Rachel Maddow last night and she mentioned the Budapest Memorandum that somehow seems to ruffle feathers on this thread.

[cprise]

34. Would US plotting to replace Ukraine's elected leader

also constitute a breech of "Independence and Sovereignty"? I think so.

Just waving around the words "opposition leaders" doesn't make it any less criminal, IMO, because those are not the leaders of said country.

The US and Germany undermined Ukraine's sovereignty.

[zeemike]

2. K&R

Cue the Putin is a monster crowd.

[brush]

19. See post 18 — the Budapest Memorandum

[zeemike]

20. So upholding sovereignty is supporting a coup against an elected leader?

That explains a lot...including what we have done to our neighbors to the south.
Kind of makes a mockery of democracy.

[rdharma]

29. You summed it up better than I did!

[blackspade]

3. Thanks for posting

That gave me a much clearer picture of what is going on there.

I still think the Russians are using this coup as a pretext to reabsorb Crimea, but the neocon meddling does seem apparent.

[swilton]

4. The minority being able to overthrow an elected leader in Ukraine

would be the equivalent of a minority in the US (i.e., the tea party) being able to overthrow a US elected leader

[glinda]

10. Conservatives already did that through ownership of Media, resources, almost everything we buy (from

China)....you name it. It is a sophisticated calculated ouster without having to actually oust a President.

[cprise]

12. In the past 2 years CBS and PBS came under neocon control

The former VP of Fox News (from the Bush years) now runs CBS News, and flagship PBS station WGBH now has David Koch on its board.

Don't expect MSNBC to last for long (although it makes a convenient figleaf).

The media situation is now twice as bad as it was under Bush.

[rdharma]

30. With baseball bats and Molotov cocktails..... all is possible!

I wonder how the newly empowered RW oligarchs are going to rid themselves of the 'Right Sector' when they've securely reached their goal.

Another "Night of the Long Knives"?

[cprise]

5. Some context:

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/20/a_new_cold_war_ukraine_violence

Violent riots since at least Dec. 2:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4555424

&noredirect=1&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN9wkwwWKSzc%26noredirect%3D1&has_verified=1

[ozone_man]

11. Great interview. Thanks!

[cprise]

6. A sample of the Washington Consensus lying machine:

On January 16, the Ukrainian government, headed by President Yanukovych, tried to put an end to Ukrainian civil society. A series of laws passed hastily and without following normal procedure did away with freedom of speech and assembly, and removed the few remaining checks on executive authority. This was intended to turn Ukraine into a dictatorship and to make all participants in the Maidan, by then probably numbering in the low millions, into criminals. The result was that the protests, until then entirely peaceful, became violent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=744177

[jtuck004]

7. I'm just kinda coming into this. We spent $5 billion to get the Russians into the Ukraine? Now, we

want them to leave?

[truedelphi]

8. Don't know much about the Ukraine.

But back in the early Sixties, our CIA installed one Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and 20 years later, had him lead that nation into fighting a lengthy and bloody war against Iran, that was helpful for our purposes. Then just a few years after that war was finished, our leaders told him told him that whatever he wanted to do with regards to Kuwait was fine by us (April Glasspie delivering said message) and then we went on to attack him.

And then we waged sanctions and war against the Iraqi people for the next twenty years. So can't say I don't see a pattern...

[KansDem]

24. In 1982, the US provided Saddam with weapons to kill Iranians...

In 1983, the US provided the Iranians with weapons to kill Iraqis (Iran/Contra scandal)

And people wonder why we're dislike in certain parts of the world?

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. and we are giving Ukraine 1 Billion in loan guarantees

Congress in process of passing right now.

[bbgrunt]

13. thanks for posting this. k and r

[grahamhgreen]

14. Must see video!!!!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

15. K&R. Thanks for posting this.

Sadly, I think the answer to your question is yes, the US did have a hand in it.

Sadder still is that it really comes as no surprise at all in view of our lengthy historical track record of this very kind of unwelcome and highly illegal meddling in the affairs of other nations.

[davidpdx]

16. Neo-nazi militias coup?

[BelgianMadCow]

26. watershed post

well, if it would get 200 recs in GD.

[arikara]

28. K&r

Nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

35. Amateur hour. Notice how they go directly from surmising about US involvement

To later, without a shred of evidence or testimony from eyewitnesses frame the latter part of the interview around how the U.S. backed coup is dangerous, etc etc.

Why don't you review the facts around Yanikovych's flight and the timing of it. Where is everyone getting the idea that because the protesters protested and later Yanukovych fled after murdering scores of Ukrainians that this was a coup?

I cannot believe people are swallowing this bullshit amateur opinion unquestioningly.