Do oil companies lie ... ?

[MindMover]

""

[packman]

1. So what's he saying?

Can't understand his point. He never comes out and says what the process nature is using to make oil. Is Oil a fossil fuel, he seems to say it isn't. Is it an ongoing , ever renewable resource because of some process converting vegetable matter into oil?

From Wikipedia:

(oil) consists of hydrocarbons of various molecular weights and other liquid organic compounds.[4] The name petroleum covers both naturally occurring unprocessed crude oil and petroleum products that are made up of refined crude oil. A fossil fuel, petroleum is formed when large quantities of dead organisms, usually zooplankton and algae, are buried underneath sedimentary rock and subjected to intense heat and pressure.

Also the Wiki article states:


Composition by weight
Element

Percent range
Carbon
83 to 85%
Hydrogen
10 to 14%
Nitrogen
0.1 to 2%
Oxygen
0.05 to 1.5%
Sulfur
0.05 to 6.0%
Metals
< 0.1%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

SO, what is he telling us? Oil isn't liquefied animal (dinosaur) fats?

[MrMickeysMom]

4. I believe he was describing how fossilized remains of animals are but one source of these things.

If you're old enough to remember how the PR got to be a common conception, you'll remember those gas stations with the huge green dinosaurs (Sinclair Oil).

It was a good example of how a coined expression poorly described what comprises oil from organic matter under pressure. The concept that organic matter was supposed to be the only source was animal really was not. Fossils are not even from bones. They include the non-bones of dead animals pressurized over time, they are derived from all organic matter breaking down under extreme conditions.

[MrMickeysMom]

2. "These aren't accidental things, you see… "

"…There's a dollar sign behind most almost everything"

So, yeah, they lie…

Fletcher Prouty (video) was an interesting interview to account the post WWII time up to the Kennedy era.

This guy spent 9 of his 23 year military career in the Pentagon - 2 with the Secretary of Defense, 2 with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and 5 with the Headquarters, U.S. Air Foce. In 1955 he was appointed the first "Focal Point" officer between CIA and the Air Force for Clandestine Operations per National Security Council Directive 5412. He was Briefing Officer for the Secretary of Defense (60-61) and for the chairman, JCS (62-63).

[KoKo]

3. Recommend...BP Strikes Again and Again...and Again! And, they aren't alone...

[2naSalit]

5. Well...

is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear sh!t in the woods?

[MiniMe]

6. Is the Pope catholic? Does a bear sh*t in the woods?

[freedom fighter jh]

7. The idea that oil is a fossil fuel does not support the idea that oil will run out.

A fossil fuel is in some sense renewable: If it's made from decaying life forms, then even as we use it more is being developed. The problem is that we're using it much, much faster than it's coming back.

If it's not a fossil fuel, then it simply has to run out once it's used up.

As far as I can tell, his argument is that it's been called a fossil fuel to give the impression that it's running out. I fail to make the connection.

[MrMickeysMom]

9. I've seen the entire video interviews. He was making no such point...

That is a snippet of that DVD and the OP is presenting a point of how "fossil fuels" has become a household word. It's historical account, like a lot of subjects on that DVD.

[freedom fighter jh]

10. Tune in at 44 seconds.

Yes, he's talking about how "fossil fuels" has become an accepted expression. He says the idea that these fuels derive from living things, an idea never really supported, creates an idea of scarcity that allows prices to be set high.

What about the larger context of "the entire video interviews" changes what he says here?

My point is that this assertion of his makes no sense. Gold can be made expensive because there is a limited amount of it and no more is being made. That oil is being reproduced by nature does not justify high prices. I cannot make the connection.

[MrMickeysMom]

13. I did tune in at 44 seconds… Let me write down for you what he said...

…"Then, oil went from a lubricant to a fuel, and it made it valuable…" (referring to how Rockefeller marketed oil's previous utility as a lubricant to one that with refinement, could be made more valuable).

That makes no sense to you?

Your comment that oil, being reproduced by nature (long cycle) does not justify high prices (short term financial game) is something that has been debated for a long time. In fact, this relates to how desperate the new market strategy is for "today's Rockefellers" to meet international markets with sub-surface mining and fracking industries.

[freedom fighter jh]

14. I didn't tell you exactly how long to listen.

At 44 seconds, he started on the business of how saying it's a fossil fuel means you can say it's scarce, and thus keep prices high.

And that does not make sense to me, even if it has, as you say, been debated for a long time.

[MrMickeysMom]

15. The idea, when oil had the potential to become fuel for the industrial revolution here...

… was from the start to determine that oil extraction per barrel would be limited. This would then be the basis for what was good propaganda (Rockefeller) to create a world price. If you set a world price (regardless of how easy it was to extract oil here or there) then you could CONTROL price, which has worked pretty effectively since then to control oil price per barrel. Oil isn't the only thing that has been controlled by the market, as wheat was mentioned in the same sentence.

[freedom fighter jh]

16. Yes.

The part I don't get is how oil's being renewable contributes to that.

Of course, even if oil is a fossil fuel, it's renewable on such a long-term scale that for human purposes it is not renewable. But still, being renewable at all is not does not support the argument that it is scarce.

[MrMickeysMom]

17. and… Yes.

That is true, IMO.

Know what IS renewable? How about evolution of the use of wind, sun and geothermal!

[drynberg]

8. ISN'T THIS ALL BESIDES THE POINT?

The point is that we have more than 400ppm of CO2 in our air, creating a greenhouse effect. Oil is a major contributor of all this CO2. So, as I understand the situation, we have to replace dirty polluting sources of energy with clean renewable sources such as Solar and Wind (and geothermal and tidal) NOW, not later. So, who cares if there's a lot or little of oil? We only care about the amount to calculate the price and this price should be for non-energy sources like fertilizer and chemicals made largely from oil. These too may be replaced soon by a more healthy alternative that won't cause our planet to go totally off our climates and kill off much of life on earth...not to mention making it difficult to live as a human on earth.

[freedom fighter jh]

11. Availability is important

I agree with you that we have to cut way back on our use of fuels that generate CO2. Jimmy Carter had it right almost 40 years ago, when he put solar collectors on the White House roof. Ronald Reagan's symbolic ripping down of those collectors was a disastrous move in the wrong direction.

But availability will determine our battles. For example, the high price of conventional oil is driving those who are oblivious to climate change to tar sands, which emit much more CO2 per amount of energy produced than does conventional oil. Sure we need to get up on the rooftops and scream about *any* CO2 generation from fuels, but maybe the tarsands are the specific battle we have to focus on now. Also, if fossil fuel is running out, we can find allies in those who don't believe climate change is man made but do believe oil is running out, because they don't want to be left unable to drive or heat their homes or be able to pay for their groceries, etc.

[DhhD]

12. What is being said is that oils are formed way under the rock fossil line of 16,000 feet. Oil

rises. Biofuels were produced and collected in the ocean bottoms and are still being produced right now by very small living organisms. Think of the hot fumerals of Yellowstone and ocean floor vents and deep ridges volcanic activity along the plates. Biofuel substances collected on the Earth for many years. O2 has been in the atmosphere for over 3 Billion years. Earth was very volcanic and was bombarded with star dust/rocks during those early billons of years. Continents rose and still have salt water under them.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1179777/valcent_products_inc_initial_data_from_the_vertigro_field_test/

Valcent Products Inc. (OTCBB: VCTPF) –

The Vertigro Joint Venture has released initial test results from its high density bio mass (algae) field test bed plant located at its research and development facility in El Paso, Texas.

During a 90 day continual production test, algae was being harvested at an average of one gram (dry weight) per liter. This equates to algae bio mass production of 276 tons of algae per acre per year. Achieving the same biomass production rate with an algal species having 50% lipids (oil) content would therefore deliver approximately 33,000 gallons of algae oil per acre per year.

The primary focus of the 90-day continuous production test was determining the robustness of the field test bed. Other secondary tests were also conducted including using different ph levels, CO2 levels, fluid temperatures, nutrients, types of algae, and planned system failures. It is important to note that the system has not been optimized for production yields or the best selection of algae species at this time.

Read more at http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1179777/valcent_products_inc_initial_data_from_the_vertigro_field_test/#EVKgyyHsovedAAOA.99

Different algae species make different hydrocarbon fuels.