Report: Homeopathy Not Effective at Treating Any Condition

[circlethesquare]

From: The David Pakman Show

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. You mean magic isn't real? O crap. I have to tell my son he can't go to Hogwarts.

The operative or should I say inoperative word is "belief."

[Romeo.lima333]

3. it's not magic it's called placebo

and people do benefit from them - not all and not on everything but people do benefit from the placebo effect

[Agnosticsherbet]

5. People who suggest homeopathic remedies don't say, "I am gong ot truck fuck your mind into curing

your cancer."

They believe the remedies they sell really do have some therapeutic factor. A person who snake oil that believes in the snake oil is still selling snake oil. Believing that homeopathic remedies requires magical thinking and faith in things that are not real.

Yes, the placebo affect is documented, but homeopathy will not cure cancer at any stage via the placebo affect.

[MrNJ]

2. yay, no side effects

[geretogo]

4. Herbs do work over extended periods of time , not instantly like a drug . If you want all the side

effects and shortened life span , take your drugs , the drug industrial complex will thank you .
Too many drugs are pushed for profit ignoring the long term harm . Herbs have never killed anyone .

[SwissTony]

6. Herbs and homeopathy are not the same thing.

Homeopathy = absence of drugs
homeopathy = absence of herbs

[SoLeftIAmRight]

8. you are using a strict definition

One must take care not to confuse Homeopathy verses Alternative Treatments.

Seems that it only takes a few minutes with Bing to see that the only people that use the strict definition are quacks and opponents to Alternative Treatments.

[SwissTony]

9. I'm not confusing homeopathy with any other alternative treatments.

No capital letters needed. If an alternative treatment works, brilliant. It becomes medicine. If not, it's rubbish.

Edited to add: see post 7

[SoLeftIAmRight]

10. it is not that simple

where does the money come from?

[SwissTony]

11. Sorry, not with you. what money? n/t

[SoLeftIAmRight]

12. How much does it cost to bring a "drug" to market?

that money...

[SwissTony]

13. short answer? Heaps!!

Drugs have to go through a number of Phases (capital "P" because Phase 1, II etc) before they even get tested for efficacy.

[Saviolo]

18. Homeopathy...

refers specifically to the practice of diluting a substance in water more and more, which is supposed to increase its potency. The substance is usually something that causes a symptom similar to what is being treated, so if your eyes are weeping from allergies, you may be given a tincture of onion, as they also cause your eyes to water. The "strongest" homeopathic "medicines" have been diluted to such an extent that there is statistically none of the original ingredient still present in the water. According to homeopathic practitioners, that's fine, because water has a memory that stores the "vibration" of that molecule in it.

You may be thinking of something more properly referred to as holistic medicine, which is an approach that takes the whole body into account when treating the ailment of one part. Holistic medicine incorporates drugs, herbs, treatments, and even meditation to treat not just the body but the mind. There is some basis to holistic medicine, but homeopathy is bunk. The placebo effect can provide some relief to some people for some ailments, but homeopathy will never improve your cancer.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

19. All I did was search...

the homeo -whatever "practitioners" that come up first do not seem to hold the dilution principle as the main component of their service.

I have no dog in this fight - just do not like using one "study" to paint a big black hole

[Saviolo]

20. It's a common misnomer

There are practitioners out there that use the "Homeopathic" label because it's got more... brand awareness, let's say. But if the dilution principle isn't the main component of their service, it's not homeopathy, it's something else. Which is just as well, honestly.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

21. agreed

thanks

[SwissTony]

15. You state that the effect of homeopathic treatments are very mild.

Might that not simply be a placebo effect? Or maybe just change in your wellness status - sometimes you just get better, even without treatment?

There have been a number of RCTs which have looked at homeopathic treatments. Some have been positive in their view of homeopathy, some less so. But trials which are better conducted (with regards to randomisation, blinding etc) show little benefit, if any, from homeopathy.

[paleotn]

22. anecdotal BS on homeopathy.....

....you may think it works, but it does not. Herbs, however, do work, only the medicinal components are usually smaller and less controlled than conventional pharmaceuticals. Digitalis for instance. Plants that contain salicylates are another. Much of modern pharmacology is derived from plants and herbs, but like all drugs, herbs can be misused, causing significant physical problems. A patient taking coumadin should be very careful ingesting herbs with blood thinning affects. For less than acute symptoms, herbs are great and usually do come with far fewer side affects.

Homeopathy on the other hand is utter and complete bullshit with absolutely ZERO evidence supporting it. It is the realm of hucksters and frauds.

[Thor_MN]

23. Homeopathic remedies are nothing but belief.

One should very strongly reject all homeopathic remedies as there is nothing there. You would get the same results by drinking tap water or swallowing a hunk of sterile clay.

[NRaleighLiberal]

7. Homeopathy is dilution of any active ingredients to where there are no more.

Herbs are real (although not standardized or well regulated - there's the rub). Homeopathy is unreal.

[Maedhros]

28. As explained to me, it involves repeated dilution of the ingredient into water

such that the metaphysical "essence" of the ingredient is conferred on the water while the ingredient is effectively absent.

It's right up there with crystal energy balancing on the hucksterism scale.

[NRaleighLiberal]

30. yes indeedy - right up there with demagnetized water, copper bracelets, etc

[Maedhros]

31. As a geologist by education, it's the "crystal healing" that gets me most.

I used to tease the crystal sellers at the Saturday Market when they would go on about the healing powers of smoky quartz. I'd tell them "you know what makes it smoky? RADIATION DAMAGE!"

Perplexed looks in response.

[SwissTony]

16. "Herbs have never killed anyone" Belladonna? Hemlock? n/t

[Android3.14]

25. "Herbs have never killed anyone" is a profoundly ignorant statement

And it only took three seconds to show how wrong.

[Cassidy]

37. Herbal supplements are snake oil sold to fill the coffers of Orin Hatch's friends

Herbal supplements are so unregulated (thanks Orin!) that they often don't even contain the substances they are supposed to contain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?_r=0

I hate it when people say alternative medicine doesn't hurt anyone. It kills. The wife of an acquaintance of mine decided she didn't want the side effects of chemo and radiation when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Instead, she had alternative medicine treatments, i.e. taking herbs, eating organic foods. Of course the cancer metastasized and she died within 2 years. Instead of helping her through the treatments to likely survival, her family helplessly watched her slowly die. She left her husband a widower and two children, a pre-teen and a teen, without their mother.

The reason alternative medicines are untested is because the people who make piles of money selling them know they could not pass any legitimate test for efficacy. The herbal supplement industry is a $93 billion dollar industry and they are unregulated. Don't kid yourself, the herbal industrial complex is in it for the money. And, by purchasing their products, you increase the power of the right wingers in Utah, where many of their companies are located and protected by Senator Hatch.

[edhopper]

17. One of the problems with herbs and supplements

is that often you are not buying what you think you are, many times you aren't buying anything at all.

Thanks to Orin Hatch, Herbs are not regulated.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/?_r=0


Homeopathy is pure rubbish, psuedoscience at it's worse.

[Thor_MN]

24. Recent study proved that the majority of herbal supplements contained low amounts, if any, of the

ingredients listed on the bottle. I'll have to see if I can dredge it up, it was about a month ago and compared brands and stores.

[Android3.14]

26. Interesting use of the word "majority"

Sounds like you might be exaggerating just a teensy weensy bit.

[Thor_MN]

27. So 19 of 25 is not a majority to you?

Must be some type of new math....

With 76% of the tested items failing, I probably should have said VAST majority.

"The investigators tested 24 products claiming to be seven different types of herb — echinacea, garlic, gingko biloba, ginseng, saw palmetto, St. John’s wort and valerian root. All but five of the products contained DNA that was either unrecognizable or from a plant other than what the product claimed to be."

Thanks for looking up the article, that is the one that I was talking about.

[Android3.14]

32. Only 25 total herbal products in the universe?

My math is fine. Your reading comprehension, however...

[Thor_MN]

34. 76% of the sampled products failed.

Your ability to extrapolate leaves something to be desired. I have to commend you on your faith based belief that companies that would cheat you out of your money on the products sampled, would put the actual advertised ingredients in all their other products.

For your financial safety, I feel that I should warn you that people do not sell bridges on street corners, and one will not be able to charge tolls on said bridges.




There's two types of people in the world:
1.Those able to draw conclusions from incomplete information.

[Android3.14]

35. Thank you

It is always sad to see people misunderstand information and then spread the misunderstanding by accident, and I despise it when people manipulate information on purpose.

[Thor_MN]

36. So I passed your test on reading comprehension and math skills?

I probably should have mentioned that my degree is in Chemistry and Biology.

It is just one study and it's methodology of using DNA analysis could be questioned, but arguing that the failure rate of the sample is not applicable to the population would be a rather basic failure in understanding of science.

[Android3.14]

38. You know, you did pass

The population sample was not representative of your broad description of all herbal supplements (being only store brand products). One might as well evaluate the nutritional value of restaurant food by restricting the sample to strictly fast food restaurants.

I sympathize with your grumpiness, but since we both share a background in science, I'm confident you (just as I) have dealt with the annoyance of someone pointing out an error.

[Oneironaut]

29. Especially the sleeping pills:

[Helen Borg]

33. I don't use them, I'm still agnostic..

But I could see who might have an interest in pushing these findings.