Is it true that doctors don't want to take action to have patient drivers licenses revoked for caus?

[Grasswire2]

A family member should not be driving.

He's 86 years old with poor hearing and a spinal condition that has shrunk him by several inches so that he cannot both see over the dashboard AND use the pedals at the same time; must slide up and slide down in his seat as needed. He has had a couple of small accidents that did not require reporting. He drives 80 mph on the freeway. He does not stay in his lane reliably; sometimes weaving out a bit. He drives at night and in the rain. Last week he and his wife went 60 miles away to a funeral in a town they do not know. It was dark when the service was over; they got lost and were lost for more than an hour, trying to find anything that would take them to a main street and ending up farther out of town, and then going hither and yon, disoriented. Him yelling at her when she would try to help. She became quite afraid. She told me that she was praying this to God: "If you let us get home, I will go to Africa as a missionary" !!!!! (Hilarious, and sad.)

The family is afraid to take necessary steps to stop him from driving. Afraid of his anger and the fuss. There is a son, and a daughter. Nobody will do anything.

I told her that if she would give me the name of his doctor, I would make the call. She says that doctors don't want to do that because it's an encroachment on the patient-doctor relationship. I looked into the requirements for simply reporting to the state DMV, but in order to do that one must have directly observed incidents and have specific times, locations, etc. I don't have that info.

Any thoughts?

[patricia92243]

1. Maybe do somethings that would help in the short run - like get them a gps.

Maybe the family could just talk to him about speeding, getting appliance to help him do the pedals, etc.

[handmade34]

2. call doctor

I had this problem with my dad (late 80's)... if the doctor can't do anything, steal his keys... this man's anger is the last thing people should be worrying about... make up something and call the DMV if you have to


my dad would have eventually hurt himself (or another) if I hadn't been able to get his keys... the son and daughter are being terribly irresponsible by not doing anything

[Grasswire2]

9. agree -- someone is going to get hurt. nt

[VarryOn]

3. Unfortunately, difficult conversations with elderly parents is part of life...

If you're blessed to have parents that live long enough.

I've not had to do it yet, but my dad had to take my grandfather's (his dad) keys. He was quite upset...for a few days.He got over it. But, the family committed to try and have someone available to drive him whenever he wanted to go somewhere.

With Uber and Lyft, it's very easy to get a ride, and it's not that expensive.

[RainCaster]

4. Contact the DMV yourself

In many states, including mine, ordinary people can contact the local office of the driver's license test facility. They will send him a letter requesting a mandatory testing of his skills and visual acuity.

[LuckyLib]

5. Family of such elderly drivers need to live in terror tha their

loved one is going to kill someone — a child in a parking lot? A senior crossing the street? A baby in a car? Then get yourself to the DMV and have a conversation. In California, you can report someone as an unsafe elderly driver, and the person will have to go in for testing. As our population ages, there are going to be more of us who won’t let go of the keys. Get tough!

[Grasswire2]

8. Can't report in that manner here.

I wish.

The state is very protective against claims that might be perceived to be simply ageist.

[emmaverybo]

6. I do know that although a doctor can not divulge information about a patient to anyone without

patient’s permission (Med proxy exceptions), patient’s family can share any information they want to with the doctor. I did call an advise nurse with a family member’s plan and share my observations—the patient was 90, had several fender benders, police had ordered her to take driving test but she took lessons and DMV let a flawed performance pass—however, despite my repeatedly telling advise nurse to tell doctor not to identify me, doctor brought patient in and said I was concerned. Nothing happened. Patient happily reported doctor found her in peak of health and ordered no tests. Patient can always refuse tests anyway.

It is frustrating. I would still call doctor directly and say I have important information to share with you about your patient. Yes, I understand you can not talk about patient, but you can listen. Probably best if wife or daughter does this.

I thought one could report anonymously to DMV “saw my neighbor driving erratically.” But it makes sense that probably would not be enough for them to order a driving test.

Don’t know if while he is weaving about driving, there’s a way to alert with cell phone text. If on a highway, he’d get stopped by patrol. Anyone can alert on another driver observed to be driving in a way that could present a danger. But how that is done, I don’t know.

Awful situation. So sorry.

[Grasswire2]

7. I do not know the name of his doctor.

And this state does not allow for reporting to DMV unless you have witnessed incidents and can provide facts. I only have been told about the problems.

[emmaverybo]

14. A family member would have to call. Only thing you can do is tell them that patient families are

not prohibited from sharing observations privately with a doctor although the doctor is under confidentiality rules. Another strategy if patient allows is to go to the appointment with patient and express the concern openly in front of doctor.

Honestly, I think elders should have to take physical driving tests more often, not just be able to renew, but even then some get passed as if the examiner kinda feels sorry for them.

[OriginalGeek]

24. My grandpa drove into his early 90s but

he always said he would be happy to take a test however often was needed. His position was if he couldn't pass a test he didn't need to be driving.

He lived to 96 and probably would have lived longer except he fell while walking his dog and got an infection in the hospital after getting his broken ankle fixed.

He was a good driver and stayed mentally sharp enough to know when it was time to quit. I drove him around the last few years and I'm grateful for that time with him.

[emmaverybo]

25. What a role model! Mom was a better driver than I am until her last few years, At 87, she was on

the treadmill.
I am sure your grandfather greatly enjoyed his time with you. Reaching out to our elders is so great for us and for them.

Thank you for sharing an optimistic perspective. As I age, I am all the more impressed by the many elders who went before me. Hard acts to follow!

[radical noodle]

10. Talk to his insurer

His auto insurance will either refuse him or charge him such an ungodly amount that he can't afford it. That's what I did with my dad.

[marlakay]

11. Took me long time to get my mom

Out of a car. I couldn’t believe when they gave her another 4 yrs when she was 90.

It took doctor calling me last December a year ago and saying she has to move now she can’t do stairs anymore that did it.

We found a apt for her that had cleaning, meals and a shuttle. Step below fully taking care of you.

She argued about the car but we told her it took every penny which was true to pay her new rent so we couldn’t afford car insurance and upkeep.

Its hard to become the parent, my daughter and I are helping her and we slowly weaned her of bills. I forwarded all mail to my house and now stuck with hundreds of charity junk mail. I found out she was giving to a bunch of them, that she can not afford to now.

[emmaverybo]

13. Sorry. I do know how hard it is. My mom couldn't find her own bills under stacks of charity

solicitations. They wooed her with calendars, tote bags, calculators, address labels...I found that small donor’s names are sold, so the pile on becomes exponential. She wanted to save every person, child, and type of animal in need. I felt bad that I had to discourage her, but many were scams. I used charity navigator online to get information on them. They would spend a million dollars to get a million. One president of an organization to help cleft palates children made a salary of 750,000 per year, the board 250,000 and they were not paying the surgical bills they ran up.

It’s good you found your mom a good place. Universe bless you and daughter for taking care of her.

[Freddie]

12. Do they pay their own bills?

I encountered this with my dad. He was 87, had a couple minor accidents and should have stopped driving a while ago. Family doc was no help at all. I had taken over the bill paying and conveniently forgot to pay the car registration fee. Oops, Dad, the car isn’t registered anymore, you’ll get a big fine if a cop stops you. I know of others that had the car mechanically disabled.

[BatteriesNotNeeded]

15. you have to do the tough love thing

My grandfather and grandmother got lost once, for three hours driving back from my aunt's house that was two miles away, a route they had taken thousands of times. they only had to make 2 turns. Grandma related the event laughing, saying she was "helping" him, with her glaucoma, she could barely see! So, my uncles took out the spark plugs out of the car, and disabled it with removing a few other pieces. Grandpa has spare parts around, and fixed it, and they were back on the road. That didn't work. So then, my uncles and aunts had a sit down with them, and they said they were going to call the DMV to have his license taken away if he didn't voluntarily give up driving because they loved him and were afraid they would get hurt. Grandpa didn't want to stress them out after he heard all their worries. They let him do it with some dignity. They all promised to take them wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted. We were lucky that we have a huge family, many were retired and had the time and energy to do that. Grandpa was a very proud old Norwegian, he was shoveling snow off a very steep pitched 2nd story house they owned, at age 88. He fell off the roof, and wasn't harmed, just sore. We're talking Minnesota here, with lots of fluffy snow to fall in. But, the uncles, my mom and aunt chewed him out for it. Grandma tried to prevent him from doing it, but he wouldn't listen. My uncles had promised to shovel off the roof within a few days, but he didn't want to wait.

My father-in-law was diagnosed with brain cancer at age 84, and he insisted on driving, even though his cognition was being affected quite a bit. My husband and I talked to his doctor who wrote to the DMV to suspend his license, and the next visit, the doc told him what he did, because he said he had to do that for patients with that kind of brain cancer. He accepted that very well. We let him drive one last time, 1 block to the mailbox to get the mail, and my husband sat close to his dad, to make sure he'd be ok. He died a short time after that. But doctors will act on it if there is a need.

[no_hypocrisy]

16. I had a similar situation.

My father was 92 and shouldn't have been driving.

Except he was a retired doctor and could BS any elderly colleague he used to work with and any younger physician based on their shared profession.

Result: He died of a dissected aorta b/c he rear-ended a van at a gas station, having hit his chest against a steering column w/o an air bag. He didn't report the accident to any of us (me or my siblings), but rather to a neighbor who kept this confidence.

He had been issued 3 traffic tickets for the accident and his license was suspended posthumously.

[MaryMagdaline]

17. In Florida you can call the DMV and they will send a notice to the

Person that a test is required. Call your state DMV to see if there is a procedure like that.

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. Doctors send notices to DMV--you can too.

When there is a suspicion that they are not safe to drive you can send a notice to the DMV. Look on their website for the form and send it in.

Also: If you do, the DMV will require your family member to submit a doctor's report. It will be out of your hands.

But, for the safety of others on the roadway, you should send in the form.

[Grasswire2]

22. nope

This state does not allow a form to be filed unless you have witnessed accidents or incidents yourself and have details of where, when, what happened, etc. And can't be done anonymously.

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. Your state has different laws than WA

In WA family members can submit the form. And there does not need to be an accident.

They cannot do it anonymously. But, once the form is submitted, the Department sends notice to the driver that they need to submit a physician's report indicating that they are safe to drive.

[MosheFeingold]

19. I'm older than your relative

And I have to take a test every year now to prove I can still drive.

Still do, during the day in the small town where I was relocated by my son. Also taketrips to El Paso, but turned over the driving to a great-grandchild once in the city (and we walk to shul there).

I get your concerns, but do be cautious. Losing my DL after driving since before WWII would be a giant blow to my limited independence. I'd be officially an old coot.

If possible, please just intercept him and volunteer to drive where possible.

[Aristus]

20. I'm a Physician Assistant, not a doctor. But I would probably consult a gerontologist before helping

family members make such a decision. I used to work in an office with a Nurse Practitioner whose specialty (mine is healthcare for the homeless) was gerontology. She was brilliant. I would accept her medical opinion as gospel.

[csziggy]

21. My Dad was in his late 80s when he sped through a school zone

And got a ticket - which in Florida means the elderly have to be tested to keep their license.

He also had lower spine damage and could not reliably feel his feet. A cataract in one eye. He'd lived in that area since 1925, knew where the school zones were and simply forgot and drove through at over the regular speed limit, not to mention the school zone speed limit.

My sister, who had tried to get him to stop driving for years, called the driver's license office and begged them to not renew his license. Problem was, Dad had gone to school with the clerks' grandparents, some of their parents had worked for him, and the clerks themselves had known him all their lives. So he walks, they greet him by his first name, blow through the tests, ignore his deficiencies, and give him a new license.

We were extremely lucky that he did not have any further tickets, no accidents, and harmed no one during his remaining years. He was a danger to everyone else on the road during those last few years.

I expect there is nothing you can do, unfortunately.

[Phoenix61]

26. Maybe adult protective services. nt

[Grasswire2]

27. well, there's a thought.

Arguably, the wife is endangered although she really doesn't have to choose to ride when he's driving.

[Phoenix61]

28. He's a danger to himself. nt